The 3,000 Mile Oil Change Myth

[RobJohnson]

According to a recent study by the California Integrated Waste Management Board, 73 percent of California drivers change their oil more frequently than required. This same scenario no doubt repeats itself across the country. Besides wasting money, this translates into unnecessary consumption of $100-a-barrel oil, much of it imported.

Using 2005 data, the Board estimates that Californians alone generate about 153.5 million gallons of waste oil annually, of which only about 60 percent is recycled. Used motor oil poses the greatest environmental risk of all automotive fluids because it is insoluble, persistent, and contains heavy metal and toxic chemicals. One gallon of used oil can foul the taste of one million gallons of water.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/586/the-3000-mile-oil-change-myth/;_ylc=X3oDMTE0cnVqb3Q4BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawMzMDAwLW9pbA--

I still like the 3 month/3,000 mile rule, especially here in the dusty South West.

[Willow]

the 3,000 mile oil change has been like a religion to my husband. And we keep automobiles for a very long time! It certainly can't hurt!

[RobJohnson]

My owners manual actually says to change the oil every 7500 miles.  The dealership says to change it every 3000.  I go with the owners manual.

Read the small print.

[RobJohnson]

the 3,000 mile oil change has been like a religion to my husband. And we keep automobiles for a very long time! It certainly can't hurt!

 

[DixieBelle]

I only have 25k miles on my car and it's 4.5 years old. I drive it almost daily (except in the summer) but obviously, I drive in a very small radius. That mileage also includes almost yearly round trips back home which are around 1500 miles total.

I don't do the standard oil change time frame but I do it regularly. The dealership that sold me the car has always done the service. They are really great and I love how they have taken care of us over the years. They say I'm fine and that the car is fine even though it's not getting changed on the 3/3 schedule.

[RobJohnson]

Using a good filter will help, even if your oil lasts over 3k (of course there are exceptions like long highway trips) the filter might not hold up....some of the quick lube oil fiters are simply like a coffee filter inside...once in a while a dealership will use those as well....an OEM filter or a brand like Fram would be the best.

[DixieBelle]

These guys are top notch. They always open the hood and walk me through what's been done and they show me the parts used. They have the manager talk to you and he signs off on the form saying the work was done to spec and using approved parts. To be honest, I wouldn't know coffee filter from an air filter but the car purrs like a kitten and hubby seems to approve.

Good info to know though! I did get burned once by one of the those drive in speedy lube oil change places. Years ago, they never bothered to change the oil and my engine seized. The repair guy said they may have even drained some of the oil and just didn't finish. God, what a mess that was.

[Odin's Hand]

I let it go to about 5,000 before I change mine. I'll do an engine flush about 1 out of every 3 changes, though, and I always add about 8 oz. of Lucas Heavy Duty Oil to alleviate "dry start" duration and frequency.

[RobJohnson]

These guys are top notch. They always open the hood and walk me through what's been done and they show me the parts used. They have the manager talk to you and he signs off on the form saying the work was done to spec and using approved parts. To be honest, I wouldn't know coffee filter from an air filter but the car purrs like a kitten and hubby seems to approve.

Good info to know though! I did get burned once by one of the those drive in speedy lube oil change places. Years ago, they never bothered to change the oil and my engine seized. The repair guy said they may have even drained some of the oil and just didn't finish. God, what a mess that was.

I am a strong believer in dealerships. Even if the labor rate is a little higher.

I just sent my mom to a dealership in IL for some repairs to her car...they actually saved me money by fixing the real problems and not just "throwing" parts at it.....it also helped that the current service manager I trained back in 1996....she was happy to see my mom again this summer....

Want a $600 brake job...go to Sears, Midas, etc...want a better job for about $120...go to the dealership...

Can I brag for one second? In 1996 I was part of a dealership team that was #1 for customer satisfaction in three states for GMC, in 1997 after GMC and Pontiac merged, we were #2....Buick "Best in Class" for 8 years...

The awards stopped when I left......I was ranked in the top ten in the Midwest as a Service Advisor....

[DixieBelle]

^excellent! Brag away. Taking pride in your work is an admirable trait.

I know I pay a little more for their service, but they treat me right. They are friendly, professional, on time, and knowledgable. They are ready for me when I arrive (and know me by name - or at least pretend to - I'm sure they are looking at my file) they give me an exact time for pick up, I get a free dealer car (that's always waiting with the keys in it) they call when it's done and tell me exactly what they found, they have it waiting when I arrive and I'm never there more than a few minutes. They threw in "free service for two years" when we bought the car. I know some people say "Well, they made up for that cost somewhere in the deal". Perhaps. But we had already negotiated a really great deal when it was offered. And, the service those first two years was the same as it is now. We were not relegated to some second tier. They also call me and email me to remind me of service and I always get a follow up message to ask how my experience was.

/gush mode off

[Chris_]

Oil change interval depends on the type of driving that you do.  People that consistantly drive in city "stop and go" and lengthy idle situations need to change their oil more frequently than those that primarily do only highway type driving.  Further vehicles that pull trailers, campers, or carry heavy loads should change oil more frequently.

Folks living in "dusty" environments needn't worry that their oil change interval be altered for the locale, as crankcases have been sealed from outside contamination for at least a decade.  However dusty areas tend to be hot, and vehicle operation in hot climatic conditions should be considered by shortening the interval, as well as using a slightly heavier viscosity oil.  Your owners manual should give you a chart to guide you in oil viscosity selection as well as interval.

For the folks that change their oil every 3000 miles regardless of conditions, you can't really go wrong, and basically I consider this practice "cheap insurance" against premature engine problems.  Using a good quality oil is nearly as important as changing it frequently......I have always been a big fan of oils that are manufactured from Pennsylvania crude, due to the unique structure of the molecules and their properties, but most brand-name oils are quite good.

Don't forget that automatic transmissions require lubricant changes as well as the engine......and anyone that has had to replace/rebuild their transmission will attest that it is nearly as expensive as replacing the engine.  Transmission fluid should be changed at least every 30,000 miles......and more frequently if you pull trailers, or carry heavy loads.  It is easy to check the condition of your transmission fluid.....just pull the dipstick out and "smell" the fluid.  If it appears brown in color, and smells "burnt", or like it has been hot.....replace it ASAP.

Rear axle/transaxle/transfer case lubricant should also be changed periodically.....I like to do it every 50,000 miles.......although these assemblies are "sealed systems", the lubricant picks up filings and burrs from the gears, and unless it is changed occasionally, wear will increase.

The general rule that I always use is "oil is cheap", repairs are not.....and as far as the quoted OP comment is concerned.....screw California........the state isn't going to pony up if one of their citizens blows an engine due to failed lubrication.

doc

[Miss Mia]

My car uses synthetic oil.  I got the oil changed at 5,000, 10,000, then 20,000, 30,000 etc.  And I check the oil level regularly, well not me personally I have someone take it over to make ready and have one of those guys look at it while they're washing my car.   

That's what the manual and VW recommends.  Though the service dept always puts a sticker on  recommending my next oil change in 3,000 miles.  Even I think they do that to get people in more often and make more money.  *shrug*

[RobJohnson]

Even I think they do that to get people in more often and make more money.  *shrug*

They would never.......

Synthetic is a different story....that stuff lasts forever!

[Miss Mia]

Even I think they do that to get people in more often and make more money.  *shrug*

They would never.......

Synthetic is a different story....that stuff lasts forever!

For 2009 all VW models use synthetic oil.  They're doing a 3 yr/36,000 mile free maintenance warranty.  Which sounds good, but they're also not doing the 5,000 mile oil change any more, just 1 ever 10,000 miles. 

Heck an oil change for a diesel is around $74.  I bought a service payment plan with the car, so I just give the coupon and JM&A pays for it. 

[Chris_]

My car uses synthetic oil.  I got the oil changed at 5,000, 10,000, then 20,000, 30,000 etc.  And I check the oil level regularly, well not me personally I have someone take it over to make ready and have one of those guys look at it while they're washing my car.   

That's what the manual and VW recommends.  Though the service dept always puts a sticker on  recommending my next oil change in 3,000 miles.  Even I think they do that to get people in more often and make more money.  *shrug*

I am certainly not an expert on the use of synthetic oils, although I understand the chemistry and principles........that  said, although they don't experience molecular breakdown of natural based oils, they are still subject to the same contamination from combustion byproducts, and will ultimately become corrosive over extended use, unless additives are placed in the crankcase to neutralize them.....plus they generally cost three to four times as much per quart as a quality standard oil.....I would be very skeptical of running an engine 30,000 miles on a single oil change........but that's just me........

There are filters available (generally used on heavy trucks with large diesel engines), that allow extended times between oil changes for this type of use.....I don't know about now, but they used to be called "Luberefiners", that actually not only filter the oil on multiple levels, but also subject it to catalytic action to remove the combustion byproducts that cause bearing corrosion.....don't know if they are available for passenger engines, but they used to be quite expensive......

doc

doc

[Miss Mia]

My car uses synthetic oil.  I got the oil changed at 5,000, 10,000, then 20,000, 30,000 etc.  And I check the oil level regularly, well not me personally I have someone take it over to make ready and have one of those guys look at it while they're washing my car.   

That's what the manual and VW recommends.  Though the service dept always puts a sticker on  recommending my next oil change in 3,000 miles.  Even I think they do that to get people in more often and make more money.  *shrug*

I am certainly not an expert on the use of synthetic oils, although I understand the chemistry and principles........that  said, although they don't experience molecular breakdown of natural based oils, they are still subject to the same contamination from combustion byproducts, and will ultimately become corrosive over extended use, unless additives are placed in the crankcase to neutralize them.....plus they generally cost three to four times as much per quart as a quality standard oil.....I would be very skeptical of running an engine 30,000 miles on a single oil change........but that's just me........

There are filters available (generally used on heavy trucks with large diesel engines), that allow extended times between oil changes for this type of use.....I don't know about now, but they used to be called "Luberefiners", that actually not only filter the oil on multiple levels, but also subject it to catalytic action to remove the combustion byproducts that cause bearing corrosion.....don't know if they are available for passenger engines, but they used to be quite expensive......

doc

doc

after the 10k oil change, I get it changed every 10,000 miles.  My next one it at 40,000. 

I wouldn't go 30,000 miles between changes.  Heck since I work here, I get it within 10 miles of 10,000. 

[Chris_]

after the 10k oil change, I get it changed every 10,000 miles.  My next one it at 40,000. 

I wouldn't go 30,000 miles between changes.  Heck since I work here, I get it within 10 miles of 10,000. 

I misunderstood, sorry......however, since the synthetic costs at least three times as much as standard oil, it is really "six of one, half-dozen of another", when it comes to cost and frequency........changing standard oil every 3000 miles, or synthetic at 10,000....same cost for the most part.  VW may have a sound engineering reason for specifying synthetic, relating to the design of their engines......it is always best to stick with what the manufacturer recommends......

doc

[RobJohnson]

My car uses synthetic oil.  I got the oil changed at 5,000, 10,000, then 20,000, 30,000 etc.  And I check the oil level regularly, well not me personally I have someone take it over to make ready and have one of those guys look at it while they're washing my car.   

That's what the manual and VW recommends.  Though the service dept always puts a sticker on  recommending my next oil change in 3,000 miles.  Even I think they do that to get people in more often and make more money.  *shrug*

There are advantages of working at a dealership.....but I started to go nuts, would make all my deals on Saturday and sit around and try to stay awake during the week...seen a couple winter two week pay checks of under $200....that hurt


I am certainly not an expert on the use of synthetic oils, although I understand the chemistry and principles........that  said, although they don't experience molecular breakdown of natural based oils, they are still subject to the same contamination from combustion byproducts, and will ultimately become corrosive over extended use, unless additives are placed in the crankcase to neutralize them.....plus they generally cost three to four times as much per quart as a quality standard oil.....I would be very skeptical of running an engine 30,000 miles on a single oil change........but that's just me........

There are filters available (generally used on heavy trucks with large diesel engines), that allow extended times between oil changes for this type of use.....I don't know about now, but they used to be called "Luberefiners", that actually not only filter the oil on multiple levels, but also subject it to catalytic action to remove the combustion byproducts that cause bearing corrosion.....don't know if they are available for passenger engines, but they used to be quite expensive......

doc

doc

after the 10k oil change, I get it changed every 10,000 miles.  My next one it at 40,000. 

I wouldn't go 30,000 miles between changes.  Heck since I work here, I get it within 10 miles of 10,000. 

[RobJohnson]

after the 10k oil change, I get it changed every 10,000 miles.  My next one it at 40,000. 

I wouldn't go 30,000 miles between changes.  Heck since I work here, I get it within 10 miles of 10,000. 

I misunderstood, sorry......however, since the synthetic costs at least three times as much as standard oil, it is really "six of one, half-dozen of another", when it comes to cost and frequency........changing standard oil every 3000 miles, or synthetic at 10,000....same cost for the most part.  VW may have a sound engineering reason for specifying synthetic, relating to the design of their engines......it is always best to stick with what the manufacturer recommends......

doc

GMC/Chevy trucks used to come with synthetic from the factory and the first LOF was free using Mobil-1 at that time, it really helped "cold engine knock" in the midwest climate...I have been out of the service loop for a while....not sure what they do now....

[RobJohnson]

Even I think they do that to get people in more often and make more money.  *shrug*

They would never.......

Synthetic is a different story....that stuff lasts forever!

For 2009 all VW models use synthetic oil.  They're doing a 3 yr/36,000 mile free maintenance warranty.  Which sounds good, but they're also not doing the 5,000 mile oil change any more, just 1 ever 10,000 miles. 

Heck an oil change for a diesel is around $74.  I bought a service payment plan with the car, so I just give the coupon and JM&A pays for it. 

Diesel runs clean and has alot longer motor life....

I have actually changed oil/filter in Semi tractors....that is when I was 14........Jimmy Carter was in office( )and my dad had to work two jobs....I helped him at one....

(no city kid here, LOL)

[Chris_]

GMC/Chevy trucks used to come with synthetic from the factory and the first LOF was free using Mobil-1 at that time, it really helped "cold engine knock" in the midwest climate...I have been out of the service loop for a while....not sure what they do now....

Typical GM.......if an engine "knocks" when it is cold, it is a crappy design.......a well designed engine will have oil pressure in the galleries before the first cylinder fires on combustion stroke........but I have an inherent bias, I don't think that GM has built a decent engine since Ed Cole was their Chief Engineer.....I used to work for him......

doc

[RobJohnson]

GMC/Chevy trucks used to come with synthetic from the factory and the first LOF was free using Mobil-1 at that time, it really helped "cold engine knock" in the midwest climate...I have been out of the service loop for a while....not sure what they do now....

Typical GM.......if an engine "knocks" when it is cold, it is a crappy design.......

I agree.

Just like rear end "snap" and everything else I would have to try and explain to service customers.....glad I am missing the Dex Cool discussions...

[Wineslob]

These guys are top notch. They always open the hood and walk me through what's been done and they show me the parts used. They have the manager talk to you and he signs off on the form saying the work was done to spec and using approved parts. To be honest, I wouldn't know coffee filter from an air filter but the car purrs like a kitten and hubby seems to approve.

Good info to know though! I did get burned once by one of the those drive in speedy lube oil change places. Years ago, they never bothered to change the oil and my engine seized. The repair guy said they may have even drained some of the oil and just didn't finish. God, what a mess that was.

It's somewhat of an urban myth. Fram filters are actually cheaply made, I've seen the insides of enough of them. The best filters to use are Baldwin or Wix, if you can find them.
5k miles between changes is about right. The other "myth" is that oil breaks down. Not true. What it does do is lose the additives. They, in a sense, "boil off" over time. Thats the reason for changing it.
OH BTW go look at recycled oil sometime. It's a honey color, it has much less impurities in it than "new" oil (notice the "new" is a dark greenish/black color). I use it whenever possible.

[RightCoast]

Toyota recommends 5,000 between oil changes and since my new camry has the 100k service contract I go about 5,000 over - I also do about 2,500 miles a month so an oil change every other month would get expensive fast.

[MrsSmith]

I want my Toyota to run pretty close to forever, so I'm changing with synthetic every 5k.  I'm also going to go with synthetic in the Escort, but change at 3K the first couple times until I see how dirty it gets between.  I figure I've gotten over 250k out of almost every vehicle, there's no reason to skimp on the normal maintenance now.