Author Topic: Mortgages and assorted other stuff  (Read 5238 times)

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Offline jtyangel

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Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« on: January 26, 2008, 08:58:09 AM »
I'm not sure if this will stay here. I'll leave that up to bijou. It is more commentary on the current mortgage situation.

I have to say that I am sick and damn tired of what is going on with that. What chaps my hide the most is all the people that are scrambling to say it wasn't their fault: homeowners(or soon to be former homeowners) who knew they were stretching themselves thin, mortgage companies who knew how risky this was, but gambled on the market highs that they wouldn't go bust, and the politicians who encouraged mortgage companies to make the American dream a reality for everyone. I think the last group bothers me the most. All the politicians backpeddling; the same individuals who encouraged risky loans to people who were not credit worthy to encourage home ownership. Now, these bottom feeders are all ablaze with how they need to do something for all these poor homeowners--wow--that must be record time for making a group of victims--what, maybe 5-10 years? And then here comes the lawsuits. Here is a big one for example:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=axRMZutUG2BQ&refer=home

It seems we are moving towards a time where any loss, no matter how people glossed over the risks of the deal, is fraud???

Disgusted..please discuss.

Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 09:33:40 AM »
I have to agree with you. Bush with his bs about everyone should own a home screwed the pooch. If you can not afford one, you should rent and save up till you can. These 1.9% interest only teaser rates are the most insane thing I have ever heard of. I don't blame poor and stupid people for this mess. If I was in that category, paying $500 a month for rent and someone offered me a new house for the same amount or less who in their right mind would not take it. Additonaly, it takes around 2 months to evict someone from rental property; on a home it takes 9 to 12 months.

Greenspan says it was not his fault. He is a lying SOB. He testified before Congress 3 years ago that there was no need for Congressional oversight regarding Sub Prime loans. He did nothing to alert Congress of this looming disaster. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that a pyramid scheme like a 1.9% interest loan on a house will eventually collapse.   

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 10:08:34 AM »
I have to agree with you. Bush with his bs about everyone should own a home screwed the pooch. If you can not afford one, you should rent and save up till you can. These 1.9% interest only teaser rates are the most insane thing I have ever heard of. I don't blame poor and stupid people for this mess. If I was in that category, paying $500 a month for rent and someone offered me a new house for the same amount or less who in their right mind would not take it. Additonaly, it takes around 2 months to evict someone from rental property; on a home it takes 9 to 12 months.

Greenspan says it was not his fault. He is a lying SOB. He testified before Congress 3 years ago that there was no need for Congressional oversight regarding Sub Prime loans. He did nothing to alert Congress of this looming disaster. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that a pyramid scheme like a 1.9% interest loan on a house will eventually collapse.   

Yep, and the politicians now are acting like a savior to those same people who got into the loans when they encouraged it in the first place. It was pandering that encouraged the kind of behavior that put everyone in the subprime mess. Additionally, politicians and others scrambling to correct their mistakes, won't acknowledge that a good percentage of subprimes actually are still in good standing. It is indeed a big problem and reiterates that home ownership should not come without some sign of intention or capability to pay, but there are kudos to be extended to the majority of subprimes who have made good on their properties.

I have to say I'm with you on the homeowners side of this. If I'm not knowledgable in an area, I'm going to trust the experts ultimately and do whatever research I can--still in the end, I probably won't understand that research fully--I'm going through this now with our basement repair--there is only so much I can learn before this job needs to be contracted--in the end I gotta take a risk and put faith in someone else with the expertise to fix the problem. I can't help but think a good many did indeed trust mortgage brokers that they thought were their advocates in this to help them finance a home. A lot of dirty hands out there, starting at the very top who encouraged this idea that everyone should own a home.

Offline bijou

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 10:35:14 AM »
This is absolutely the right place for it.  Economics isn't separate from real life and the sub prime loan industry has caused great havoc in the UK too, with a bank about to  bailed out by the taxpayer because it is headquartered in the heartland of Labour party voters.  Although the government has tried to blame it on the backlash from  US sub prime issues it is a domestic problem. 




Offline NHSparky

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 10:48:41 AM »
Yeah, it might be political suicide, but it would be nice if ONE politician said to the banks AND people who made bad decisions, "You broke it, you fix it."

My impression is that people who can't qualify for car loans but still get mortgages for 500K is NEVER going to end well.

Even in 2000/2001 when I was looking for my first house, mortgage brokers kept trying to sell me on the crap loans; i.e., negative amortization, 1/1 ARM's, etc., etc...even with a 700+ FICO score.  Their selling point was the low payment.

Suckers are born every minute--they're just magnified at the peak of a cycle.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2008, 12:22:14 PM »
I have to agree with you. Bush with his bs about everyone should own a home screwed the pooch. If you can not afford one, you should rent and save up till you can. These 1.9% interest only teaser rates are the most insane thing I have ever heard of. I don't blame poor and stupid people for this mess. If I was in that category, paying $500 a month for rent and someone offered me a new house for the same amount or less who in their right mind would not take it. Additonaly, it takes around 2 months to evict someone from rental property; on a home it takes 9 to 12 months.

Greenspan says it was not his fault. He is a lying SOB. He testified before Congress 3 years ago that there was no need for Congressional oversight regarding Sub Prime loans. He did nothing to alert Congress of this looming disaster. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that a pyramid scheme like a 1.9% interest loan on a house will eventually collapse.   
Strong with you, the BDS is.  How can you possibly lay this at President Bush's feet?  Home ownership is part of the American Dream and is touted by almost all public officials.  He did NOT say "go out and buy 10 times more home than you can afford."

This was stupid people making stupid decisions and the market allowing and even encouraging them to do so.  The WORST thing the government can do is interfere.  The Market will eventually work itself out.  We are talking about AT MOST 7% of themortgage market having difficulty.

It is the idiots on the Left and the Left MSM that keep running around screaming "the sky is falling the sky is falling!" that are the problem.
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Offline Lauri

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2008, 01:43:20 PM »
I have to agree with you. Bush with his bs about everyone should own a home screwed the pooch. If you can not afford one, you should rent and save up till you can. These 1.9% interest only teaser rates are the most insane thing I have ever heard of. I don't blame poor and stupid people for this mess. If I was in that category, paying $500 a month for rent and someone offered me a new house for the same amount or less who in their right mind would not take it. Additonaly, it takes around 2 months to evict someone from rental property; on a home it takes 9 to 12 months.

Greenspan says it was not his fault. He is a lying SOB. He testified before Congress 3 years ago that there was no need for Congressional oversight regarding Sub Prime loans. He did nothing to alert Congress of this looming disaster. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that a pyramid scheme like a 1.9% interest loan on a house will eventually collapse.   


Greenspan is right dead in the center of this thing and should be held as the ultimate big cheese in responsibility. I'm sorry, GW may be a lot of dumb things, but he is no economist. He relied heavily on Greenspan to help him after 9/11 and thats when we got these ridiculous low mortgages and the price of houses all over starting going up.

I still believe its a small pocket of people though. If you had 5000 dollars in credit card debt, the smart person wouldnt go refi their house to pay that off. They'd work to pay it off and leave their equity alone. Using the equity in your house to finance your life is very, very wrong for the economy.. and personally, it just increases your debt for the long term.

The problem with ALL of this, is that a lot of people dont know the equity game.. and fell for it. They arent idiots, they just didnt know the big picture and how it would affect them down the road with their money.

It's correctable though.. and the govt should stay out of it.

Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2008, 01:57:30 PM »
I have to agree with you. Bush with his bs about everyone should own a home screwed the pooch. If you can not afford one, you should rent and save up till you can. These 1.9% interest only teaser rates are the most insane thing I have ever heard of. I don't blame poor and stupid people for this mess. If I was in that category, paying $500 a month for rent and someone offered me a new house for the same amount or less who in their right mind would not take it. Additonaly, it takes around 2 months to evict someone from rental property; on a home it takes 9 to 12 months.

Greenspan says it was not his fault. He is a lying SOB. He testified before Congress 3 years ago that there was no need for Congressional oversight regarding Sub Prime loans. He did nothing to alert Congress of this looming disaster. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that a pyramid scheme like a 1.9% interest loan on a house will eventually collapse.   
Strong with you, the BDS is.  How can you possibly lay this at President Bush's feet?  Home ownership is part of the American Dream and is touted by almost all public officials.  He did NOT say "go out and buy 10 times more home than you can afford."

This was stupid people making stupid decisions and the market allowing and even encouraging them to do so.  The WORST thing the government can do is interfere.  The Market will eventually work itself out.  We are talking about AT MOST 7% of themortgage market having difficulty.

It is the idiots on the Left and the Left MSM that keep running around screaming "the sky is falling the sky is falling!" that are the problem.

When you are at the top of a governmental or private entity and things go to pot, you get the blame for it. It is not like Bush had a bunch of imbeciles advising him on every aspect of government. Why did he allow these teaser rates in the first place. They were on his watch. Correct.

I agree that the government should not interfere but do you think there should be no regulations. For example, checking on a person's income and the ability to pay the mortgage. I don't think that's is unreasonable. The lack of those types of no regulations gave us the S & L crises and now the Sub prime mess. You are the one with BDS if you give the President a pass on this.

The sky is not falling but the sub prime mess is causing havoc in the stock market. Losing 20 to 30% in 2 weeks will get your attention that is if you have anything in there. And guess what, it's the financial institutions that have brought the market down. Now because of this stupidity by Bush & Greenspan, some people that are credit worthy are having trouble getting financed.

I live in an area where my property value has gone up over 50% since Katrina. However, people in CA, FL, etc have been sucked into this mess because of stupid government policies. Thru no fault of their own, they can not sell their house even though they do not have a sub prime loan because their property has depreciated so much. But hey, let's give Bush & Greenspan a pass. Lets blame the poor stupid suckers but the politicians and some crooked mortgage brokers hands are clean.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2008, 02:20:20 PM »
I have to agree with you. Bush with his bs about everyone should own a home screwed the pooch. If you can not afford one, you should rent and save up till you can. These 1.9% interest only teaser rates are the most insane thing I have ever heard of. I don't blame poor and stupid people for this mess. If I was in that category, paying $500 a month for rent and someone offered me a new house for the same amount or less who in their right mind would not take it. Additonaly, it takes around 2 months to evict someone from rental property; on a home it takes 9 to 12 months.

Greenspan says it was not his fault. He is a lying SOB. He testified before Congress 3 years ago that there was no need for Congressional oversight regarding Sub Prime loans. He did nothing to alert Congress of this looming disaster. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that a pyramid scheme like a 1.9% interest loan on a house will eventually collapse.   
Strong with you, the BDS is.  How can you possibly lay this at President Bush's feet?  Home ownership is part of the American Dream and is touted by almost all public officials.  He did NOT say "go out and buy 10 times more home than you can afford."

This was stupid people making stupid decisions and the market allowing and even encouraging them to do so.  The WORST thing the government can do is interfere.  The Market will eventually work itself out.  We are talking about AT MOST 7% of themortgage market having difficulty.

It is the idiots on the Left and the Left MSM that keep running around screaming "the sky is falling the sky is falling!" that are the problem.

When you are at the top of a governmental or private entity and things go to pot, you get the blame for it. It is not like Bush had a bunch of imbeciles advising him on every aspect of government. Why did he allow these teaser rates in the first place. They were on his watch. Correct.

He "allowed it?"  Hey, a free market is a free market.  Unlike you, I don't want a Nanny Government interfering with my personal choices.  Maybe you have disdain for your fellow American (a requirement of libertadiness) but I would prefer to have freedom.


Quote
I agree that the government should not interfere but do you think there should be no regulations. For example, checking on a person's income and the ability to pay the mortgage. I don't think that's is unreasonable. The lack of those types of no regulations gave us the S & L crises and now the Sub prime mess. You are the one with BDS if you give the President a pass on this.
That is what we who believe in "Capitalism" call "Risk."  It is not the government's job to regulate risk/reward.  But describing capitalism to a libtard is like describing eyesight to the blind.

Quote
The sky is not falling but the sub prime mess is causing havoc in the stock market. Losing 20 to 30% in 2 weeks will get your attention that is if you have anything in there. And guess what, it's the financial institutions that have brought the market down. Now because of this stupidity by Bush & Greenspan, some people that are credit worthy are having trouble getting financed.
The stock market problem is being driven by the Asian markets, not the so-called "housing crisis."  And you have yet to point to a single Bush policy that has had any affect one way or the other on the housing  market.  As usual, BDS is long on hot air and short on facts.  Oh, and Greenspan hasn't worked in the government for a long time.

Quote
I live in an area where my property value has gone up over 50% since Katrina. However, people in CA, FL, etc have been sucked into this mess because of stupid government policies. Thru no fault of their own, they can not sell their house even though they do not have a sub prime loan because their property has depreciated so much. But hey, let's give Bush & Greenspan a pass. Lets blame the poor stupid suckers but the politicians and some crooked mortgage brokers hands are clean.
What did President Bush do that caused stupid people to take our mortgages more than they could afford? Again, only you socialist libtard Nanny-staters think that somehow the gummit should be involved and is responsible for stupid decisions made by stupid people.  And you are certainly invited to provide facts for "crooked mortgage brokers."

Freaking nanny-staters.  I can't teach you all Capitalism 101.
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Offline overlord

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 03:29:33 PM »
I have to agree with you. Bush with his bs about everyone should own a home screwed the pooch. If you can not afford one, you should rent and save up till you can. These 1.9% interest only teaser rates are the most insane thing I have ever heard of. I don't blame poor and stupid people for this mess. If I was in that category, paying $500 a month for rent and someone offered me a new house for the same amount or less who in their right mind would not take it. Additonaly, it takes around 2 months to evict someone from rental property; on a home it takes 9 to 12 months.

Greenspan says it was not his fault. He is a lying SOB. He testified before Congress 3 years ago that there was no need for Congressional oversight regarding Sub Prime loans. He did nothing to alert Congress of this looming disaster. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that a pyramid scheme like a 1.9% interest loan on a house will eventually collapse.   
Strong with you, the BDS is.  How can you possibly lay this at President Bush's feet?  Home ownership is part of the American Dream and is touted by almost all public officials.  He did NOT say "go out and buy 10 times more home than you can afford."

This was stupid people making stupid decisions and the market allowing and even encouraging them to do so.  The WORST thing the government can do is interfere.  The Market will eventually work itself out.  We are talking about AT MOST 7% of themortgage market having difficulty.

It is the idiots on the Left and the Left MSM that keep running around screaming "the sky is falling the sky is falling!" that are the problem.

When you are at the top of a governmental or private entity and things go to pot, you get the blame for it. It is not like Bush had a bunch of imbeciles advising him on every aspect of government. Why did he allow these teaser rates in the first place. They were on his watch. Correct.

I agree that the government should not interfere but do you think there should be no regulations. For example, checking on a person's income and the ability to pay the mortgage. I don't think that's is unreasonable. The lack of those types of no regulations gave us the S & L crises and now the Sub prime mess. You are the one with BDS if you give the President a pass on this.

The sky is not falling but the sub prime mess is causing havoc in the stock market. Losing 20 to 30% in 2 weeks will get your attention that is if you have anything in there. And guess what, it's the financial institutions that have brought the market down. Now because of this stupidity by Bush & Greenspan, some people that are credit worthy are having trouble getting financed.

I live in an area where my property value has gone up over 50% since Katrina. However, people in CA, FL, etc have been sucked into this mess because of stupid government policies. Thru no fault of their own, they can not sell their house even though they do not have a sub prime loan because their property has depreciated so much. But hey, let's give Bush & Greenspan a pass. Lets blame the poor stupid suckers but the politicians and some crooked mortgage brokers hands are clean.

Bah, I'm not a huge fan of ole' W myself, but this one ain't his fault.  The fault belongs to the companies who signed these risky mortgages, and the morons who took them.  It may sound cold but other folks' misfortunes have worked out well for me, I got my house dirt cheap.  That's just the way the market works.  As for folks "leaving it to the experts", those experts are there to look out for their own (or their companies) best interests.  NOT YOURS!  If you don't know what you're doing, either learn or hire a real estate attorney like I did.  The best thing the govt can do for the economy now is to leave it alone.
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 04:26:31 PM »
See, I lean towards Lacar's view. I'm not pulling the old DU BDS crap,but it was he and a whole host of others who ENCOURAGED home ownership for EVERYONE or does nobody remember the feel good speeches by various politicians about making home ownership possible for everyone?  It did not start with Bush though. It started back with Clinton when the market started tanking under him, Greenspan gave the nod for gov sponsored agencies to guarantee loans without the same requirements they once had. The intention was to bring more money into the marketplace by opening new business that was untapped(and probably should have stayed untapped :p). There was indeed gov involvement at every turn--they guaranteed the loans via agencies like Freddie Mac.

My husband says Greenspan is not affectionately called 'Greenstain' in their circle of fixed income traders for some of his 'solutions' to market issues. I think it is a multi-faceted issue, there's enough blame to go round for everyone involved--politicians, government agencies, mortgage companies, and homeowners. And we'll all get to pay for everyone's irresponsibility one way or the other, won't we?  :whatever:

ETA that what really torques me off now is the same politicians who encouraged this irresponsible lending now behave as if they have clean hands of the whole mess and are going to now rush in and save the public from itself. At the heart of it, I am just tired of lying ass politicians who backpeddle when a plan blows up in their face and that goes for GOP and the Asses.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 04:29:30 PM by jtyangel »

Offline Chris_

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 04:28:57 PM »
See, I lean towards Lacar's view. I'm not pulling the old DU BDS crap,but it was he and a whole host of others who ENCOURAGED home ownership for EVERYONE or does nobody remember the feel good speeches by various politicians about making home ownership possible for everyone?  It did not start with Bush though. It started back with Clinton when the market started tanking under him, Greenspan gave the nod for gov sponsored agencies to guarantee loans without the same requirements they once had. The intention was to bring more money into the marketplace by opening new business that was untapped(and probably should have stayed untapped :p). There was indeed gov involvement at every turn--they guaranteed the loans via agencies like Freddie Mac.

My husband says Greenspan is not affectionately called 'Greenstain' in their circle of fixed income traders for some of his 'solutions' to market issues. I think it is a multi-faceted issue, there's enough blame to go round for everyone involved--politicians, government agencies, mortgage companies, and homeowners. And we'll all get to pay for everyone's irresponsibility one way or the other, won't we?  :whatever:

Not if the stupid government stays the hell out of it.

As far as the rest goes, it is up to individuals to decide their financial fate.  Blaming anyone but the person who signs the contract is Nannyism, pure and simple.
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: Mortgages and assorted other stuff
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 04:40:44 PM »
See, I lean towards Lacar's view. I'm not pulling the old DU BDS crap,but it was he and a whole host of others who ENCOURAGED home ownership for EVERYONE or does nobody remember the feel good speeches by various politicians about making home ownership possible for everyone?  It did not start with Bush though. It started back with Clinton when the market started tanking under him, Greenspan gave the nod for gov sponsored agencies to guarantee loans without the same requirements they once had. The intention was to bring more money into the marketplace by opening new business that was untapped(and probably should have stayed untapped :p). There was indeed gov involvement at every turn--they guaranteed the loans via agencies like Freddie Mac.

My husband says Greenspan is not affectionately called 'Greenstain' in their circle of fixed income traders for some of his 'solutions' to market issues. I think it is a multi-faceted issue, there's enough blame to go round for everyone involved--politicians, government agencies, mortgage companies, and homeowners. And we'll all get to pay for everyone's irresponsibility one way or the other, won't we?  :whatever:

Not if the stupid government stays the hell out of it.

As far as the rest goes, it is up to individuals to decide their financial fate.  Blaming anyone but the person who signs the contract is Nannyism, pure and simple.

Then why do government agencies guarantee the loans at all? The 'nannyism' was already there--in a sense this was the corporate version of it.

 I know what you are saying, but the gov. already has their foot in this mess. They meddle with the market to begin with by guaranteeing loans(Freddie Mac/Ginnie Mae). This gives the mortgage company some reassurance by the government that they won't totally lose their ass if they extend credit to questionable prospects. The government manipulated the market from the get go so it was never in a sense a truly 'free market'.

I agree with you about the contract issue as well. What it boils down to is a big friggin' mess. The gov should not have been involved, but it has been for a very long time. The market was indeed manipulated by Greenspan's policies. I'm not suggesting a solution, just frustration at the politicians who double-speak on it and are using it now to perhaps gain votes if they bail people and companies out.