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Offline Chris_

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CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« on: February 10, 2009, 10:58:48 PM »
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CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX
Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions-Reduction Goals
By Anselm Waldermann

     Despite Europe's boom in solar and wind energy, CO2 emissions haven't been reduced by even a single gram. Now, even the Green Party is taking a new look at the issue -- as shown in e-mails obtained by SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Germany's renewable energy companies are a tremendous success story. Roughly 15 percent of the country's electricity comes from solar, wind or biomass facilities, almost 250,000 jobs have been created and the net worth of the business is €35 billion per year.

But there's a catch: The climate hasn't in fact profited from these developments. As astonishing as it may sound, the new wind turbines and solar cells haven't prohibited the emission of even a single gram of CO2.

Even more surprising, the European Union's own climate change policies, touted as the most progressive in the world, are to blame. The EU-wide emissions trading system determines the total amount of CO2 that can be emitted by power companies and industries. And this amount doesn't change -- no matter how many wind turbines are erected.

Experts have known about this situation for some time, but it still isn't widely known to the public. Even Germany's government officials mention it only under their breath. No one wants to discuss the political ramifications....

Der Spiegel LINK

Anybody seen the Gore-acle lately?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 08:32:17 AM by DefiantSix »
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Offline Chris_

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 11:02:24 PM »
Quote from: DefiantSix on February 10, 2009, 10:58:48 PM
Anybody seen the Gore-acle lately?
MIA, baby -- MIA.
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Offline PoliCon

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 11:31:21 PM »
imagine that . . . . global warming clap trap doesn't work . . . . amazing. 
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 11:38:20 PM »
Quote from: DefiantSix on February 10, 2009, 10:58:48 PM
Anybody seen the Gore-acle lately?

lol. these people are clueless. globaloney worming was kind of manmade, made up by Al Gore
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 08:44:11 AM »
Could that possibly be because enforcing a reduction in the total CO2 credits they can trade would mean economic contraction, and all the politicians except the Greens are smart enough to figure out they'd get shitcanned for that?

 :whatever:
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Offline Wayne

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 08:58:04 AM »
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Offline Baruch Menachem

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 09:20:13 AM »
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Offline jinxmchue

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 11:30:20 AM »
Quote from: PoliCon on February 10, 2009, 11:31:21 PM
imagine that . . . . global warming clap trap doesn't work . . . . amazing. 

It's pseudoscience.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 11:36:57 AM »
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Offline Peter3_1

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 11:47:10 AM »
Ah, yes, junk science, a favorate web site for me. I also like www.prophetofdoom.com as a source of all things nasty about Islam.

Anyway, Gorebal Warming "action" is designed from day one to return the average workman back to serf status. They are not Naturalists, conservationists or envviornmentalists, but Malthusians.So our suffering is part of their plan. 
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Offline PoliCon

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 07:16:11 PM »
Quote from: jinxmchue on February 11, 2009, 11:30:20 AM
It's pseudoscience.
Now don't lie.  It's just as much a science as is eugenics!
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2009, 08:02:16 AM »
Could you add this to the ammunition forum?

Thank-you
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Offline jinxmchue

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2009, 11:23:00 AM »
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Offline Chris_

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 11:30:28 AM »
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...almost 250,000 jobs have been created ...
They never mention how many jobs were lost.  Bet it's more than 250k.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 11:35:27 AM »
Quote from: Mr Snuggle Bunny on February 12, 2009, 08:02:16 AM
Could you add this to the ammunition forum?

Thank-you

Done.

Note to moderator(s):  If you want to combine this thread with the new copy brought into the Political Ammo forum, I encourage you to do so.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 12:15:00 PM »
I suspect the economics and the facts behind this are much more complex than the story makes it appear, and the writier was unsuccessful in either understanding or communicating the information with which he actually had to work.

It is a rather obvious outcome of a carbon-credit trading system that all the carbon credits will be used, since a credit trading system only makes sense where the emitters are up against some natural or legally-imposed limit.  Therefore, the system will keep them at that limit, and will not reduce emissions at all. 

This would mean the wind turbines were still a net positive (if there was to be a carbon limit imposed at all) since their output would've added a significant net plus to the power grid, enabling carbon credits that would've had to be used for power production to go to goods production, a net plus.

Now, of course, all this means no net reduction is carbon emissions at all, and a significant-but-not-stunning increase in energy production, so of course there is no net downward effect on CO2 levels.

The stupid is therefore not the wind turbines, which are actually of some positive utility, but in the whole bullshit carbon credit trading system.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2009, 12:24:09 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on February 12, 2009, 12:15:00 PM
I suspect the economics and the facts behind this are much more complex than the story makes it appear, and the writier was unsuccessful in either understanding or communicating the information with which he actually had to work.

It is a rather obvious outcome of a carbon-credit trading system that all the carbon credits will be used, since a credit trading system only makes sense where the emitters are up against some natural or legally-imposed limit.  Therefore, the system will keep them at that limit, and will not reduce emissions at all. 

This would mean the wind turbines were still a net positive (if there was to be a carbon limit imposed at all) since their output would've added a significant net plus to the power grid, enabling carbon credits that would've had to be used for power production to go to goods production, a net plus.

Now, of course, all this means no net reduction is carbon emissions at all, and a significant-but-not-stunning increase in energy production, so of course there is no net downward effect on CO2 levels.

The stupid is therefore not the wind turbines, which are actually of some positive utility, but in the whole bullshit carbon credit trading system.
I find your lack of faith in the Goricle disturbing.
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Offline PoliCon

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2009, 06:47:49 PM »
Quote from: lug-nut on February 12, 2009, 12:24:09 PM
I find your lack of faith in the Goricle disturbing.
ooooo an heretic!! do we get to stone him? or do we force him to get stoned?
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