Trip - You and Yellowstone

[Ballygrl]

Trip, I was listening to a podcast of a show the other day, they were talking though about Astrology and the planets being aligned, they made mention of the planets being aligned this week as they were in 1906 when the San Francisco Earthquake occurred, they also said the next couple of years are going to have heavy Earthquake activity, particularly off Indonesia and the Western part of the US. Do the alignment of the Planets have anything to do with this at all?

[Trip]

Trip, I was listening to a podcast of a show the other day, they were talking though about Astrology and the planets being aligned, they made mention of the planets being aligned this week as they were in 1906 when the San Francisco Earthquake occurred, they also said the next couple of years are going to have heavy Earthquake activity, particularly off Indonesia and the Western part of the US. Do the alignment of the Planets have anything to do with this at all?

As far back as the 1940s, the Radio Corporation of America (RCA) hired John Nelson, an electrical engineer, in an attempt to improve short-wave radio communications around the Earth. Radio transmissions had been observed to be more reliable in the "lulls" in between solar activity associated with "peak" sunspot years.  Using a solar observatory he built on the roof of a New York skyscraper, Nelson was able to correlated this rising and falling radio interference with not only the sunspot cycle, but with the motions of the major planets of the solar system. Using only on the planetary positions of the planets, Nelson was able to successfully predict sunspots, solar flares and geomagnetic storms. 

More recent studies have tied volcanic flow rate with the position of the moon.

I would not be surprised if tectonic events and volcanism had some relative tie with planetary orientation.

[Ballygrl]

As far back as the 1940s, the Radio Corporation of America (RCA) hired John Nelson, an electrical engineer, in an attempt to improve short-wave radio communications around the Earth. Radio transmissions had been observed to be more reliable in the "lulls" in between solar activity associated with "peak" sunspot years.  Using a solar observatory he built on the roof of a New York skyscraper, Nelson was able to correlated this rising and falling radio interference with not only the sunspot cycle, but with the motions of the major planets of the solar system. Using only on the planetary positions of the planets, Nelson was able to successfully predict sunspots, solar flares and geomagnetic storms. 

More recent studies have tied volcanic flow rate with the position of the moon.

I would not be surprised if tectonic events and volcanism had some relative tie with planetary orientation.

Actually they made a brief comment about the increase in sun spots, but they didn't delve into it.

[Trip]

Actually they made a brief comment about the increase in sun spots, but they didn't delve into it.

Incidentally, I find your "Any Republican/Rubio 2012" signature graphic sort of disturbing. I could not vote for that ticket because Rubio is aboard, and unqualified to hold office as his parents were not citizens of the United States upon his birth, and therefore he cannot possibly be a natural born citizen of the United States.

Rubio also supports DREAM Act style legislation.

That puts him in the "hell no" category.

[Ballygrl]

Incidentally, I find your "Any Republican/Rubio 2012" signature graphic sort of disturbing. I could not vote for that ticket because Rubio is aboard, and unqualified to hold office as his parents were not citizens of the United States upon his birth, and therefore he cannot possibly be a natural born citizen of the United States.

Rubio also supports DREAM Act style legislation.

That puts him in the "hell no" category.

We'll agree to disagree.

[Trip]

We'll agree to disagree.

What are you disagreeing on though? I think Rubio is very likable, however I think we should not create false idols any more than the Democrats did with Obama.  The definition of natural born is the only one recognized by the Supreme Court in its entire history, and Rubio's desire for a Dream Act facsimile, in deference to his own origin, is in disregard for this country itself, and is further cause to question his birth status.

[Ballygrl]

What are you disagreeing on though? I think Rubio is very likable, however I think we should not create false idols any more than the Democrats did with Obama.  The definition of natural born is the only one recognized by the Supreme Court in its entire history, and Rubio's desire for a Dream Act facsimile, in deference to his own origin, is in disregard for this country itself, and is further cause to question his birth status.

We disagree on the interpretation of natural born citizen.

[Trip]

We disagree on the interpretation of natural born citizen.

Okay. Have you told the Supreme Court they need to listen to your belief?

And while you're at it, perhaps you should notify the first Constitutional Convention that they should not have abandoned Alexander Hamilton's first draft of the Article II requirement, that required "born citizen", rather than "natural born citizen".


At any rate, this thread isn't the place for this. My bad.

[TVDOC]

We disagree on the interpretation of natural born citizen.

Folks.....let's stick to science in this forum, if you want to get into politics, please start a new thread in the appropriate area......

Thanks.

doc

[Trip]

Trip, I was listening to a podcast of a show the other day, they were talking though about Astrology and the planets being aligned, they made mention of the planets being aligned this week as they were in 1906 when the San Francisco Earthquake occurred, they also said the next couple of years are going to have heavy Earthquake activity, particularly off Indonesia and the Western part of the US. Do the alignment of the Planets have anything to do with this at all?

Here are somewhat relevant references I provided some time ago in the "other" forum's thread:

• G. P. Tamrazyan: Tide-forming forces and earthquakes. Icarus, 1967, vol.7, issues 1-3, pages 59-65
  
  
  G. P. Tamrazyan: Principal Regularities in the Distribution of Major Earthquakes Relative to Solar and Lunar Tides and Other Cosmic Forces. Icarus, 1968, vol.9, pages 574-592
  
  M.E. Nitsche: Are the Stabilizing and Destabilizing Influences of the Planetary Gravitational Field on the Structural Formation of Complex Systems Real ? - Triggering of Earthquakes. Lecture on the 2002 Annual Conference of the International Association for Mathematical Geology, Berlin, Germany
  
  The mega quake and Tsunami was predictable with Indian scientists’ planetary angular momentum theory – major worldwide earthquakes may happen soon!
  
  Scientist words ring true
  
  "Tremor-tide correlations and near-lithostatic pore pressure on the deep San Andreas fault", Amanda M. Thomas, Robert M. Nadeau & Roland Bürgmann; Nature 462, 1048-1051 (24 December 2009) | doi:10.1038/nature08654; Received 30 April 2009; Accepted 3 November 2009
  
  Dzurisin, D., 1980, Influence of fortnightly earth tides at Kilauea volcano, Hawaii: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 7, no. 11, p. 925 928.

[Trip]

Incidentally, another thread in this forum makes mention of me, "Concerns grow over volcanic eruptions".

This is from an article in March 2011:

• "No Such Thing as a Dormant Volcano?
  Magma Chambers Awake Sooner Than Thought"
  
  In the journal Nature dated 3 March 2011, the model of how "dormant" volcanoes awaken has been revamped.
  
  Now, the process whereby new magma injected into the cooled magma chamber body, and how this heats that chamber's magma via convective processes, has been significantly readjusted.
  
  IN the case of Mt Pinatubo, the re-awakening process has gone from 500 years, by the conventional theory, to 20 to 80 days by the new theory.

Source: ScienceDaily

I made mention of this on March 6th, 2011.

[Ballygrl]

What are the ramifications if a large Volcano really blows? aside from local damage what were the long term effects of Mt. St. Helens to the rest of the US and the world? if any.

[Trip]

What are the ramifications if a large Volcano really blows? aside from local damage what were the long term effects of Mt. St. Helens to the rest of the US and the world? if any.

The deadliest part of a super volcano eruption is not the explosion, nor the pyroclastic flows, nor the  ashfall, but rather the gas discharge that remains in the air. The release S02, sulfur dioxide, would spread through the upper atmosphere  and produce a veil that covers the earth and allows less sunlight to enter the earth.


In Ashland New Hampshire, there's a tombstone dated 1816, in memorial to Reuben Whitten, in the "Year without a Summer". There had been snow in June, and frost in July and August, and Whitten managed to grow 40 bushels of wheat when the rest of the town was without crops. Whitten's crop kept the town alive.

The same famine occurred in Europe 1816-1817.

In 1815, the volcano of Tambora had erupted, causing that "Year without a Summer".  

What we would see from a supervolcano eruption is a "Volcanic winter", the equivalent of a "nuclear winter", and the drop in temperatures would be about 10 degrees Fahrenheit, and last over years.

<makes one wonder why they have that "doomsday seed vault" in the Arctic, doesn't it?>

The last time a super volcano erupted, it nearly wiped out the human race. 74,000 years ago, a supervolcano erupted on the island of Toba, Indonesia. The population of humans dropped to a few thousand individuals, close to an extinction level event for homo sapiens.

Reference: Naked Science: Super Volcano @ 31min 51secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7as7Ej_U6yU&feature=related

[Trip]

The Volcanic Explosive Index scale is logarithmic, with each interval on the scale above 1 representing a tenfold increase in observed eruption criteria. The scale is open-ended - as in having no top index number (not limited to 8).

• Mount St. Helens (1980) was a 5 VEI.
  
  Mt Pinatubo (1991) eruption was a 6 VEI, 10 times Mount St Helens.
  
  Yellowstone (Mesa Falls eruption), 1.3 Mya, was a 7 VEI, 100 times Mount St Helens.
  
  Yellowstone (Huckleberry Ridge eruption), 2.2 Mya was an 8 VEI, at least 1000 times Mount St Helens.
  
  Yellowstone (Lava Creek eruption) 640,000 ya, was also an 8 VEI.
  
  Tambora Eruption in April 1815, from a stratovolcano, was a 7 VEI.
  
  Toba eruption, 74,000 years ago,  estimated to be "largest known explosive eruption anywhere on Earth in the last 25 million years"[1], was an 8 VEI.
  
  

[Trip]

A recent study published in the June 2012 issue of the Quaternary Geochronology, conducted by a joint research team from Washington State University and the Scottish Universities Environmental Research Center,  indicates that the largest Yellowstone eruption on record, Huckleberry Ridge (forming the Island Park Caldera), was actually three seperate eruptions at least 6,000 years apart.  The last significant explosive eruption of Yellowstone, Lava Creek, was 640,000 years ago.

The study employs an improved dating methodology, using potassium 40 and argon 40 isotopes (⁴⁰Ar/³⁹Ar), which reduces the error margin. Darren Mark, study co-author at the Scottish research center, helped fine tune the dating technique to improve it by 1.2 percent, to  a precision of 0.2%, an exponential improvement in accuracy.[1]

According to the study, the three members of the Huckleberry Ridge eruption (A, B, and C) are 2.135 ± 0.006 Ma, 2.131 ± 0.008 Ma, and 2.113 ± 0.004 Ma, respectively, with eruption volumes of 820, 1340, and 290 km³, respectively.







While the study indicates that the ejected volume of the largest Yellowstone eruption, Huckleberry Ridge, is "reduced by 12% from previous estimates",  it also indicates that, "explosive eruptions from the Yellowstone volcanic field occurred more frequently, producing more homogeneous magma than was previously believed" (from the paper's abstract). That magma consistency, its "homogeneity", has bearing on the likelihood of an explosive eruption.

“This research suggests explosive volcanism from Yellowstone is more frequent than previously thought”, indicated study co-author Ben Ellis of Washington State University.[1]

Also, while that Huckleberry Ridge eruption volume is reduced by 12%, it should be noted that Huckleberry Ridge is still 2.2 times the eruption volume of the second largest Yellowstone eruption, Lava Creek -- 640,000 years ago, which is still a VEI of 8.  Lava Creek had 1,000 times the eruption volume of Mt St Helens.



 

[Evil_Conservative]

The Long Valley caldera area has been having a swarm of earthquakes lately.  What do you say about that?  Any information?  From what I have read, the Long Valley caldera is a lot smaller than Yellowstone, but has had some uprising growth.  Just curious.

[Trip]

The Long Valley caldera area has been having a swarm of earthquakes lately.  What do you say about that?  Any information?  From what I have read, the Long Valley caldera is a lot smaller than Yellowstone, but has had some uprising growth.  Just curious.

Yeah, my buddy pointed that out to me just last night, as well as quakes that have been gradually increasing in the vicinity of Devil's Tower in Wyoming.  You may recall that Devil's Tower figured prominently in the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

We've been watching the quakes in Long Valley and Mono Lake area, as well as across the border around Hawthorne, Nevada for a while now. That area seems to be having an up-tick in activity, along with a line of quakes (over time) that has appeared traversing from southern California northeast toward Yellowstone.

[Evil_Conservative]

I've been to Devil's Tower before.  LOVED IT there.  It was a short family vacation after visiting some family in South Dakota.  Gorgeous.  I want to go back now that I am older and able to appreciate it even more.

[obumazombie]

I've been to Devil's Tower before.  LOVED IT there.  It was a short family vacation after visiting some family in South Dakota.  Gorgeous.  I want to go back now that I am older and able to appreciate it even more.

Great place to BASE jump from.

[Billy_Bob]

The Long Valley caldera area has been having a swarm of earthquakes lately.  What do you say about that?  Any information?  From what I have read, the Long Valley caldera is a lot smaller than Yellowstone, but has had some uprising growth.  Just curious.

Long Valley is a hybrid volcano... it sits atop a subduction zone but also has a feed from the mantle like Yellowstone.. its two feeds make it a rather hard one to judge.. given the massive EQ activity of late i would dare say that it is one we should be watching very closely..

[Ballygrl]

This subject is actually really scary to think about.

[CG6468]

This subject is actually really scary to think about.

Nothing anyone can do will change things. Just go on with your life.

Qué será, será.

[Trip]

Nothing anyone can do will change things. Just go on with your life.

Qué será, será.

At the cost of 98 cents for a particulate filtration mask, an individual is able to breathe during an ashfall and not suffer the the slow, tortuous death of Maries's-like disease from ash inhalation.  And for the expense of a couple more bucks for a jury rigged cheesecloth filtration on vehicles air intake, anyone in the hazard zone could drive and survive beyond the serious eruption and ashfall.

Yet there is no proactive plan whatsoever from our government.

[Billy_Bob]

At the cost of 98 cents for a particulate filtration mask, an individual is able to breathe during an ashfall and not suffer the the slow, tortuous death of Maries's-like disease from ash inhalation.  And for the expense of a couple more bucks for a jury rigged cheesecloth filtration on vehicles air intake, anyone in the hazard zone could drive and survive beyond the serious eruption and ashfall.

Yet there is no proactive plan whatsoever from our government.

This is one area that we will not have any control over.  We must prepare for our own survival.  The government, nanny state that it is, wants a culling of the herd so to speak.  When one looks at the immensity of the problem there is no realistic way for the government to prepare. The individual must be ready.

there are 12-15 volcanoes which could cause a ELE.   the initial blast and ash fall will be minor compared to the ice, snow, crop failures, and starvation that will follow.   It is the long term event that is the problem.. getting clear is the immediate issue.. getting where there will be food and support for life is yet another question.

[Evil_Conservative]

I'm more concerned over the Long Valley caldera since it's kind of in my backyard.  I'm in Las Vegas, NV.  I'm sure the ash fall would be oh-so-wonderful near us.