The Conservative Cave
Interests => The Science Club => Topic started by: Wineslob on November 17, 2009, 10:59:01 AM
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and event horizons. Discuss.
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and event horizons. Discuss.
You're kidding right? I can think of a dozen textbooks on this subject, along with several thousand doctoral theses that don't even begin to cover the mass of knowledge, theory, and experimental speculation on this issue.......
It would be helpful for the discussion to be much more specific.......
You are kinda asking us to discuss "gravity"...
doc
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Maybe all that info got sucked into the black hole, doc. :-)
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Maybe all that info got sucked into the black hole, doc. :-)
Black holes: The pot holes in the super highway of space.
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Black holes: The pot holes in the super highway of space.
I like to think of them in quantum terms........as massive garage doors into another space/time continuium.......
doc
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I like to think of them in quantum terms........as massive garage doors into another space/time continuium.......
doc
The problem would seem to lie in surviving the trip through them. Why haven't we found any reverse black holes? Paris and Britney don't count.
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The problem would seem to lie in surviving the trip through them. Why haven't we found any reverse black holes? Paris and Britney don't count.
Quantum theory suggests that all points in time, as well as all states of matter exist simultaneously (just in different dimensions)......therefore, as we eventually master the concepts involved, time (and interstellar) travel becomes theoretically possible by moving through the quantum "foam" rather than building long-voyage vessels for space travel.......quantum theory also suggests that "reverse" black holes are the same as the ones that are "seen" in today's astronomy......the door is simply open in both directions.......as to whether we could survive passage.....until someone tries it, we won't know, but current thought on the subject is that there are far less traumatic means of accomplishing the same goal. The simplest analogy that I can draw is why go over Niagara Falls in a barrel, when one could simply take the stairs and get to the same place.
In some quantum theorists view, a "black hole", formed by a collapsed star, is a rip in the space/time continuum, (similar to a safety valve, to oversimplify) where vast quantities of matter pass between dimensions (and times), and that their purpose is to achieve sort of an interdimensional "balance" in both mass and "time".......difficult to grasp considering that our concept of time as linear is fundamentally flawed, as we view it only in terms of the passage of our lives, i.e. personal perception......"time", in cutting edge physics, is not linear at all......
doc
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Yeesh, ask a simple question.....
:tongue:
A good book that deals with the possibilities and deals with it in laymans terms is, if my memory is correct, The Iron Sun (published in the 80's I think), but is NOT based the current iron sun theory.
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You're kidding right? I can think of a dozen textbooks on this subject, along with several thousand doctoral theses that don't even begin to cover the mass of knowledge, theory, and experimental speculation on this issue.......
It would be helpful for the discussion to be much more specific.......
You are kinda asking us to discuss "gravity"...
doc
That's easy. Stuff falls.
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That's easy. Stuff falls.
Or in laymans terms....."the earth sucks"......
doc
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Yeesh, ask a simple question.....
:tongue:
A good book that deals with the possibilities and deals with it in laymans terms is, if my memory is correct, The Iron Sun (published in the 80's I think), but is NOT based the current iron sun theory.
Well.....since about 90% of our body of knowledge regarding singularities has been discovered in the past 15 years, what good is a book that was written nearly three decades ago?
I have not read the volume that you site, however, if it describes the "aging star" theory, whereby as a star ages, the fusion reaction within it depletes its elemental fuel supply, and it transitions successively to fusion reactions with heavier and heavier elements, until it finally reaches the level of iron.........then I am familiar with this theory, and there is factual evidence to support the concept, at least in part........current thought supports the idea that an aging star will collapse from its internal gravitational mass at a point on the periodic table somewhat before iron in order to go "supernova", or collapse into a "black hole".
The presence of the vast amounts of iron (and other heavy metals) in the universe further supports the theory that at least some stars (or other celestial bodies) devolved in that manner at some point in the "Big Bang" process......there are other schools of thought however.....
doc
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Correct on the "Aging Star" theory. IMO it still makes more sense than the iron sun theory.
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I'm not real fond of the "Big Bang" theory........ It's all supposition and seems like a drug induced fascination.
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I'm not real fond of the "Big Bang" theory........ It's all supposition and seems like a drug induced fascination.
Actually it isn't supposition, as we now are able to measure the continued acceleration of all of the matter in the universe outward from a theoretical central point.........and the slowing of that acceleration over time.
It is now theorized that at some future date, all of the matter in the universe will slow, stop, and then begin a "reverse acceleration" toward another cataclysmic event.......where perhaps it will explode all over again, and has been following this cycle since time began.....
doc
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Actually it isn't supposition, as we now are able to measure the continued acceleration of all of the matter in the universe outward from a theoretical central point.........and the slowing of that acceleration over time.
It is now theorized that at some future date, all of the matter in the universe will slow, stop, and then begin a "reverse acceleration" toward another cataclysmic event.......where perhaps it will explode all over again, and has been following this cycle since time began.....
doc
That's what they thought and taught when I went to college 40+ years ago...not any more.
I read awhile back they have found enough matter at the far distant outer portions of the universe that it should continue to expand forever.
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That's what they thought and taught when I went to college 40+ years ago...not any more.
I read awhile back they have found enough matter at the far distant outer portions of the universe that it should continue to expand forever.
First thing that pops into my poor old frazzled brain is water displacement.
Say the universe is akin to a peacefull lake. One can drop a 2 pound rock into it and watch the ripples as the rock sinks to the bottom. any small debris such as leaves or twigs floating near by are pushed away from the sight of the splash as the ripples will force them to move away from the site. when the rock hits bottom all the gunk and mud on the bottom will blast upwards float for a few minutes then sink to the bottom again.
If the lake is bottomless that rock will continue to fall, not straight down as it will drift from side to side as the layers of water change in dencity and temperature. The mass of the rock will not change but outside forces will cause it to either move downward faster or slow it down some. That rock will never attain neutral buoyancy.
As the rock falls it causes a hole in the water and sucks smaller particle in the water to fill the hole behind it while pushing against water under it.
If one were to lay under 3 feet of water and had that 2 pound rock hit you in the head, it just may kill you, but, if you are 200 feet down the velocity is slowed enough so you may just feel a slight tap as it continues to fall.
V/x /m/x/g/= e Velocity times mass times gravity equals the effect that rock will have on the surrounding matter. IE [e ] for effect.
The mass of the rock never changes but all else around it is effected to some degree. some what like a catalyst, it in itself never changes but causes changes all it touches if for only a short time.
We know there is gravity in space holding our planets in place as the speed about each other or a sun, The rogues are the comets that that have gained velocity and are going too fast to be caught, like our moon and held to the gravity of any planet. These rogues are the off shoot, like the debris of the lake bottom the rock caused to fly upward when it hit bottom. The more mass that hits bottom the larger clumps of gunk are spewed in all directions and the faster they travel.
Then Lord help us is the friction caused by any object in our waters or way out there. I remember when the Navy had to degauss some subs as their movements had caused some kind of an electronic build up because of the material they were built with.
This all comes down to displacement in our universe of the calm lake one fishes at.
Just a theory from my addled mind, good or bad, this makes sense to me, may be utter rubbish to you.
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That's what they thought and taught when I went to college 40+ years ago...not any more.
I read awhile back they have found enough matter at the far distant outer portions of the universe that it should continue to expand forever.
The existance of matter at the outer fringes was predicted by Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, however until we understand it from the prospective of quantum relativity, we will not know for certain........
Huge advances in Big Bang cosmology were made in the late 1990s and the early 21st century as a result of major advances in telescope technology in combination with large amounts of satellite data, such as that from COBE and the Hubble Space Telescope. In 2003, NASA's WMAP takes more detailed pictures of the universe by means of the cosmic microwave background radiation. The image can be interpreted to indicate that the universe is 13.7 billion years old (within one percent error) and that the Lambda-CDM model and the inflationary theory is correct. No other cosmological theory can yet explain such a wide range of parameters, from the ratio of the elemental abundances in the early Universe to the structure of the cosmic microwave background, the observed higher abundance of active galactic nuclei in the early Universe and the observed masses of clusters of galaxies.
Source: Caltech/NASA "Report on the Future of the Big Bang Theory", circa Aug.27, 2008 (not on the net)
Just because the theory was taught 40 years ago, does not mean that it isn't accurate.......
doc
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Hmmm. I thought the other camp on this issue had determined that the universe is expanding ever faster and faster. We should just wait for AL Gore to settle the debate.
But about those singularities...
One of the most alarming aspects of this discussion for me is the idea that we might be able to somehow travel through these things to another place. It's analogous to a cave man looking at a fire and deciding to jump in it to see where all that wood went to.
It's a singularity. All matter gets squashed down to sub atomic particles and jettisoned back out into normal space via it's "north" and "south" poles as x-rays.
Or they explode.
I've read that some stop collecting matter after a few billion years and grow "cold".
We may discover other dimensions, who knows? But they'll most likely be suffering from global warming too so what's the point.
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There is matter out there that is dark.
I've heard that much.
Apparently these clouds help keep solar systems together like the plastic rings on a 6-pack of beer.
Scientifically speaking.
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There is matter out there that is dark.
I've heard that much.
Apparently these clouds help keep solar systems together like the plastic rings on a 6-pack of beer.
Scientifically speaking.
There's beer in space? Let's go. :cheersmate:
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One of the most alarming aspects of this discussion for me is the idea that we might be able to somehow travel through these things to another place. It's analogous to a cave man looking at a fire and deciding to jump in it to see where all that wood went to.
It's a singularity. All matter gets squashed down to sub atomic particles and jettisoned back out into normal space via it's "north" and "south" poles as x-rays.
With our corrent (quite limited) knowledge of these singularities, it is highly unlikely that we will establish interdemensional travel using them as a vehicle, or "portal", as, due to their nature, nothing that passes through them survives the enormous gravitational effect..........and so far nothing that passes into one returns to our space/time continuum to be observed........
Where the real possibility exists for interstellar/time/interdeminsional travel falls in the arena of Quantum Physics, which we are just beginning to scratch the surface of understanding. It is theorized that by passing through the "Quantum foam" that is the residue from the initial establishment of universal matter (which exists everywhere), we should be able to emerge at any time/place/dimension, as in Quantum theory, all times, places, and dimensions exist simultaneously. At least in theory, we should be able to do this without ever leaving our own planet.........
Time, as we perceive it is linear, however in quantum theory, time is actually sorta "spherical", and exists not as a continuum, but as an infinity of simultaneous points of reference all existing at once.
The current issue with quantum thought is that our present mathematics is woefully inadequate to construct the necessary equations to understand the effects, and similar to Einstein's work with Relativity, a new math will need to be invented in order to move forward with research in this area. Since we can actually observe the quantum principles at work, the new math will be needed to further exploit and understand what we are seeing......at present we are floundering around in the dark, as it were.......it will happen of course, but "Einstein's" don't emerge very frequently in real terms......
This will be the next great leap forward in the area of Physics.......
doc
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While I respect your opinions Dr.Doc, I must reject this one. Quantum Theory is just that. Not a lot of practical applications or relevance to the real world where farting around a black hole will get you killed. Also, since it was our woefully inadequate mathematical skills that invented quantum theory in the first place, I fail to see it's inadequacies.
I do however see parallels to the development of mathematical theories concerning the nature of our solar system. If I remember correctly many theories were advanced, all using increasingly complicated mathematical computations to understand our solar system until someone finally had the guts to point out that the Sun was the center of the solar system. That one discovery really made the math a whole lot easier regarding the celestial movements of the planets.
However, this is all speculation. Enjoyable speculation at that. It should be noted however, that quantum mechanics is most effective when applied to the sub atomic world and breaks down when it's theories are macro scaled. Unification of the mico and macro world is what the Unified Field Theory is all about.
And eventually Stephen Hawkins will come to the same conclusion as I have regarding the Unified Field Theory. The answer is 4.
Anyway. Dark Matter would be an excellent name for a beer.
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And eventually Stephen Hawkins will come to the same conclusion as I have regarding the Unified Field Theory. The answer is 4.
Particles might make it through a black hole to "the other side" but probably never a human vessel. Just putting what he said into plain english. I think thats what he said.
Anyway. Dark Matter would be an excellent name for a beer.
heh!
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While I respect your opinions Dr.Doc, I must reject this one. Quantum Theory is just that. Not a lot of practical applications or relevance to the real world where farting around a black hole will get you killed. Also, since it was our woefully inadequate mathematical skills that invented quantum theory in the first place, I fail to see it's inadequacies.
As I recall, the same was said about the origins of the universe until 1950 or so, and the previous theory was deemed valid for several centuries........
You may want to read a few papers on the state of quantum physics today, and the practical applications thereof........google "quantum computer", and you might be surprised at how close we are to a commercial application.......we know it works, we just don't know WHY it works yet..........
On edit: Quantum Mechanics, and "Quantum Physics" are two distinctly different entities.
doc
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Thank you for the correction. I misread your post. The last time I checked into the pocket protector crowd I was reading Hawkins latest work.
But yeah, science improves on itself all the time. (no pun intended.) Which is my point. In five years some grad student may come running out of the library in a panic trying to shut down CERN due to yet another theory.
Also, since you seem far more erudite in this area, and I am a confessed dilettante, could you elucidate further on this subject?
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Thank you for the correction. I misread your post. The last time I checked into the pocket protector crowd I was reading Hawkins latest work.
But yeah, science improves on itself all the time. (no pun intended.) Which is my point. In five years some grad student may come running out of the library in a panic trying to shut down CERN due to yet another theory.
Also, since you seem far more erudite in this area, and I am a confessed dilettante, could you elucidate further on this subject?
My Physics discipline is long obsolete.......and although I try to stay as current as I can, I simply can't keep up with the advance of understanding today. Up until recently, I was a moderator on an academic science board, and as a result was a bit closer to mainstream research, but those who are working in this area are closemouthed about it (grant money, patients and all), so much is happening behind the scenes.
There are quantum labs at MIT, CalTech, and a couple of universities in the EU that I know of (one in Switzerland, and another in Russia) that are on the cutting edge, I'm told, as well as some commercially-funded "think tanks", one of which is largely funded by AT&T, and another by one of Gates' subsidiaries in partnership with JPL.
I'll try to find some links to stuff that you can read about what is going on..........
doc
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My understanding is that regardless of it's possibilities, Nothing could survive the gravitational stress of passing beyond the event horizon.
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Hmmm. Further research on this topic is warranted. I'm starting here.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHex9A-M5A4&feature=related[/youtube]
So it looks like it's not the black hole you have to worry about per se, but rather the friggin' killer robots and whacked out German scientists....sigh, I guess some things never change.
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Hmmm. Further research on this topic is warranted. I'm starting here.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHex9A-M5A4&feature=related[/youtube]
So it looks like it's not the black hole you have to worry about per se, but rather the friggin' killer robots and whacked out German scientists....sigh, I guess some things never change.
Hollyweird at its best.......
I thought that "Event Horizion" was the best movie on this topic........
doc
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I discount the whole wormhole-as-stargate idea, it just seems like magical thinking, since long before you got to any theoretical gateway you would have been rendered into a hyperenergetic stream of subatomic particles and radiation waves.
The part I do find mystifying, and possibly the key to unlocking the universe, is the idea that eventually the super-black-holes will 'Evaporate.' No matter or electromagnetic energy can escape from below the event horizon, so how does this happen? Is there a mechanism by which there is a quantum conversion or decay of the other three fundamental forces into gravity, which is the only fundamental force that can extend across the event horizon, and that gravity thus has properties that are not merely and entirely dependent on mass? It would seem that an understanding of this could ultimately lead to technology to manipulate gravitational force, which would open the universe to us.
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I wish you would change your screen name to Armored Combat Vehicle Engineer. D.A.T. seems like false advertising.
Oh, and I would have gone with the event horizon clip, but sadly, that movie lacked the gripping screen presence of B.O.B.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGOsQFMEbs[/youtube]
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I wish you would change your screen name to Armored Combat Vehicle Engineer. D.A.T. seems like false advertising.
Oh, and I would have gone with the event horizon clip, but sadly, that movie lacked the gripping screen presence of B.O.B.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGOsQFMEbs[/youtube]
.."Giga-KHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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The part I do find mystifying, and possibly the key to unlocking the universe, is the idea that eventually the super-black-holes will 'Evaporate.' No matter or electromagnetic energy can escape from below the event horizon, so how does this happen? Is there a mechanism by which there is a quantum conversion or decay of the other three fundamental forces into gravity, which is the only fundamental force that can extend across the event horizon, and that gravity thus has properties that are not merely and entirely dependent on mass? It would seem that an understanding of this could ultimately lead to technology to manipulate gravitational force, which would open the universe to us.
You are correctly knocking on the door of what the discipline of Quantum Physics is all about........gravity is the only readily visible force that has never been explained mathematically, and exists instantaneously throughout the universe......it is not subject to any theoretical or real "speed limits" as other visible forces are. It is unquantifiable, except as a mathematical constant (which we know is erroneous, because we can observe "variations" in gravitational effects, especially in singularities).
This new level of thought goes beyond the concept of dimensional matter as we know it, and delves into the area far beyond subatomic physics into the concept of time as a non-constant, but enveloping entity. It views the existence of matter in the universe as irrelevant, and focuses on what exists where matter doesn't exist, i.e. "quantum foam", an area of "multilateral force" only, kept in balance by unknown relationships between, to oversimplify, matter and antimatter.
It is hard for me to visualize, and I've been studying theoretical Physics for forty years.........which makes it even more frustrating to relate to someone else. As I mentioned up thread, a new level of mathematics will be necessary to attempt to define these concepts, so it is therefore, by definition, quite esoteric.
But you are correct in the statement that this will be the next great leap forward in technology........the best analogy that I can put forward is that it will be similar to the transition from Newtonian physics to Einsteinean physics.....
doc
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Easily my most favorite thread. Please continue Dr. Doc. And don't be afraid of using any technical jargon or even complex mathematical computations to explain your points.
Am I reading this correctly? Gravity is not necessarily a property of mass and can exist independently of it?
Also, the balance between matter and anti matter may be due to the existence of the multiple dimesions?
Fascinating.
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I wish you would change your screen name to Armored Combat Vehicle Engineer. D.A.T. seems like false advertising.
You have to actually know quite a bit of technical stuff to command a tank (Quantum mechanics, maybe not so much), even an old-school M60A1 like the one in my avatar. 'DumbAss Tanker' is really more of an attitudinal description that jealous infantrymen slapped onto us way back in the day, some time during WWII or the first couple of decades of the Cold War. Tankers are kind of a hard-headed lot.
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When I was at Ford, a guy I worked with used to be a tank driver in the Army. He drove his Pontiac Grand Am the same way... he floored it everywhere he went. You should have seen him pull out of a parking spot.
:lmao:
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Am I reading this correctly? Gravity is not necessarily a property of mass and can exist independently of it?
Also, the balance between matter and anti matter may be due to the existence of the multiple dimesions?
Gravity, as we visualize it is a function of mass, but only in the presence of the assumption of time as linear. If one were to view "time" as an infinite variable, gravity is no longer dependent on the presence of mass.
We see it presently as the relationship "force" between two celestial bodies (for example), but in the instance of a "black hole" resulting from a collapsed star, the force known as gravity becomes theoretically infinite (in our present understanding), and the observable mass has disappeared. Mass is mass, whether the mass of a star is nine hundred thousand kilometers in diameter, or collapses to the size of a basketball, theoretically, the mass (sans energy burnoff) should remain approximately the same for sake of argument, so why the monumental increase in the gravitational effect within the event horizon. So now we have thrown a new variable into the mix........a given gravitational force is no longer dependent on the presence of a fixed quantity of mass, but the "density" thereof..........therefore other forces are at work in this example besides our view of gravity as a matter-dependent constant.
The initial thought was that the "gravity" flux in this example becomes so intense that no measurable light can emerge, however other forms of energy do emerge from these singularities, which would nullify the flux theory. So why does the gravitational effect increase in these singularities, when we are dealing with a (relatively) constant presence of mass (regardless of density). Further, why do some forms of energy escape from them, while others do not?
Singularities are not good examples of our understanding (or lack thereof) of quantum level occurrences, as, I suspect, there is much more going on in them than we are aware of.........a dimensional gateway, or rip in "our" space/time continuum.......perhaps, but they are far more complex than we are presently capable of seeing and measuring.
Regarding your second question, since we have yet to observe the presence of antimatter anywhere other than in a laboratory, we don't know whether the balance between these two states is interdimensional, but the suspicion is that it is, based on the cataclysmic results when the two states are intentionally merged The energy released by an intentional combining of the two states far exceeds the calculated conversion levels, therefore the additional energy is coming from somewhere else.........and it is also theorized that it is an area where "time" as we know it becomes spherical, rather than linear.
doc
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Gravity, as we visualize it is a function of mass, but only in the presence of the assumption of time as linear. If one were to view "time" as an infinite variable, gravity is no longer dependent on the presence of mass.
We see it presently as the relationship "force" between two celestial bodies (for example), but in the instance of a "black hole" resulting from a collapsed star, the force known as gravity becomes theoretically infinite (in our present understanding), and the observable mass has disappeared. Mass is mass, whether the mass of a star is nine hundred thousand kilometers in diameter, or collapses to the size of a basketball, theoretically, the mass (sans energy burnoff) should remain approximately the same for sake of argument, so why the monumental increase in the gravitational effect within the event horizon. So now we have thrown a new variable into the mix........a given gravitational force is no longer dependent on the presence of a fixed quantity of mass, but the "density" thereof..........therefore other forces are at work in this example besides our view of gravity as a matter-dependent constant.
The initial thought was that the "gravity" flux in this example becomes so intense that no measurable light can emerge, however other forms of energy do emerge from these singularities, which would nullify the flux theory. So why does the gravitational effect increase in these singularities, when we are dealing with a (relatively) constant presence of mass (regardless of density). Further, why do some forms of energy escape from them, while others do not?
Singularities are not good examples of our understanding (or lack thereof) of quantum level occurrences, as, I suspect, there is much more going on in them than we are aware of.........a dimensional gateway, or rip in "our" space/time continuum.......perhaps, but they are far more complex than we are presently capable of seeing and measuring.
Regarding your second question, since we have yet to observe the presence of antimatter anywhere other than in a laboratory, we don't know whether the balance between these two states is interdimensional, but the suspicion is that it is, based on the cataclysmic results when the two states are intentionally merged The energy released by an intentional combining of the two states far exceeds the calculated conversion levels, therefore the additional energy is coming from somewhere else.........and it is also theorized that it is an area where "time" as we know it becomes spherical, rather than linear.
doc
Come on Doc, gravity is not some mathematical equation, it simply exists when matter is spun around strong enough to cause things to navigate to the center of the force.
Lots of stuff cause gravity, the sun, the moon our earth itself. Even in a vacuum gravity can be formed, it is the speed of the object that causes this. Everything out there has some form of speed, the heat from a star, causes whatever to either move away or go into the core.
As long as there is movement there will be gravity, when things become still, no movement then everything is gearing up for another big bang. There is only movement when there is pressure, heat is essential, were the stars cold and unmoving, that would be the end to everything----what ever that is.
We Earthlings are unique, so far as we would like to think, Be nice to believe there are others like us out there, NO WAY. If we are in fact being visited by what we call UFO's then they have to come from the future, that is why those funny little fellows sort of resemble humans.
So far I have never heard of anyone describing these Alians as looking like hippopotamuses.
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Come on Doc, gravity is not some mathematical equation, it simply exists when matter is spun around strong enough to cause things to navigate to the center of the force.
Lots of stuff cause gravity, the sun, the moon our earth itself. Even in a vacuum gravity can be formed, it is the speed of the object that causes this. Everything out there has some form of speed, the heat from a star, causes whatever to either move away or go into the core.
As long as there is movement there will be gravity, when things become still, no movement then everything is gearing up for another big bang. There is only movement when there is pressure, heat is essential, were the stars cold and unmoving, that would be the end to everything----what ever that is.
Um......methinks you are confusing gravity with centrifugal force.........you might want to take Physics 101 over again........
doc
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Personally, I found post 36 to be pretty fuggin' brilliant. I'll let the time theory pass for a couple of days until I do some more book learnin'.
But it seems like gravity (or what we perceive as gravity) according to your suggestion, may exist independent of mass, or even matter. I hadn't considered that.
But to return to singularities, if black holes possibly serve as gateways to "somewhere" else, then wouldn't there be gateways in our universe dumping stuff out from "somewhere" else?
Maybe that's where all that dark matter comes from.
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But to return to singularities, if black holes possibly serve as gateways to "somewhere" else, then wouldn't there be gateways in our universe dumping stuff out from "somewhere" else?
Maybe that's where all that dark matter comes from.
A white hole??
(http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2007/12/23-End%20of%20Month/rosie-oterror.jpg)
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Come on Doc, gravity is not some mathematical equation, it simply exists when matter is spun around strong enough to cause things to navigate to the center of the force.
Lots of stuff cause gravity, the sun, the moon our earth itself. Even in a vacuum gravity can be formed, it is the speed of the object that causes this. Everything out there has some form of speed, the heat from a star, causes whatever to either move away or go into the core.
As long as there is movement there will be gravity, when things become still, no movement then everything is gearing up for another big bang. There is only movement when there is pressure, heat is essential, were the stars cold and unmoving, that would be the end to everything----what ever that is.
We Earthlings are unique, so far as we would like to think, Be nice to believe there are others like us out there, NO WAY. If we are in fact being visited by what we call UFO's then they have to come from the future, that is why those funny little fellows sort of resemble humans.
So far I have never heard of anyone describing these Alians as looking like hippopotamuses.
:wtf3:
:orly:
And Doc...Centrifugal force? Are you trying to talk down to us backwoods shadetree-mechanic hilljacks that glanced up suspiciously at our high school Physics teachers when they started talking about angular momentum and centripetal force?
:-)
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But to return to singularities, if black holes possibly serve as gateways to "somewhere" else, then wouldn't there be gateways in our universe dumping stuff out from "somewhere" else?
Maybe that's where all that dark matter comes from.
Perhaps that IS where "dark matter" comes from........but to expand on that a bit, we still haven't figured out where the original "matter" came from that initiated the "Big Bang"........
The portal going the opposite direction (into our universe) may be vastly larger than we can imagine.........
doc
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:wtf3:
:orly:
And Doc...Centrifugal force? Are you trying to talk down to us backwoods shadetree-mechanic hilljacks that glanced up suspiciously at our high school Physics teachers when they started talking about angular momentum and centripetal force?
:-)
I was jerking vesta's chain........
Don't forget I WAS one of those backwoods shadetree-mechanic hilljacks at one point in my life (and I can STILL pull an engine with a chainfall and a good oak tree)........I just had a really good teacher........
doc
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We Earthlings are unique, so far as we would like to think, Be nice to believe there are others like us out there, NO WAY. If we are in fact being visited by what we call UFO's then they have to come from the future, that is why those funny little fellows sort of resemble humans.
So far I have never heard of anyone describing these Alians as looking like hippopotamuses.
What would make someone so arrogant (or ignorant) as to presuppose that in the vastness of our universe (not even considering thinking interdimensionally) our little orb is the ONLY one that is supportive of any intelligent life?
The mathematical probability analysis of this situation simply doesn't support your conclusion (not that I'm surprised).
Unless the astrophysics community thought otherwise, why do you think that when NASA launched the Mariner probes (and others) into deep space, they all carried messages describing our location and civilization?
Someone with an IQ larger than their hat size must not agree with you..........
doc
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What would make someone so arrogant (or ignorant) as to presuppose that in the vastness of our universe (not even considering thinking interdimensionally) our little orb is the ONLY one that is supportive of any intelligent life?
The mathematical probability analysis of this situation simply doesn't support your conclusion (not that I'm surprised).
Unless the astrophysics community thought otherwise, why do you think that when NASA launched the Mariner probes (and others) into deep space, they all carried messages describing our location and civilization?
Someone with an IQ larger than their hat size must not agree with you..........
doc
Oh, that's gonna leave a mark. :-)