Author Topic: car anomaly  (Read 3506 times)

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Offline franksolich

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car anomaly
« on: June 22, 2012, 03:21:24 PM »
This is weird, just really weird.

A couple of months ago, I noticed there'd be the start of a hesitation--not a hesitation itself, but the start of one--for about the first five or ten minutes after I'd turned it on.

I thought perhaps it was the fuel pump; more than two years ago, the local mechanic, who's known this car since it was brand-new (I wasn't the original owner), told me the fuel pump was going bad.....but then offered tips on how to prolong its life* (fuel pumps aren't cheap), which I then started doing.

Well, after all this time running on a "going bad" fuel pump, I figured it was inevitable.

I mean, how many can run a vehicle more than two years after its fuel pump went bad, so I got no complaints.

At the same time, I did notice this "hes-hes-hes-" (the start of hesitations) occurred only in mornings, and only in mornings where the preceding night had been damp (not necessarily rainy, but damp).

The mechanic checked it, and said, "well, it's still going bad, but doing what you're doing, it's still got life in it."

He replaced the fuel filter, a $17 job, part and labor.

(He showed me the fuel filter right as he took it out; I guess it was clogged.)

That worked for some weeks--the car ran slicker than a pig sliding on ice--but then I noticed the starting-in-the-morning-after-a-damp-night thing began again.

But then on Wednesday morning, after a very damp night, when I turned the key, while the ignition turned over and all that, something refused to "catch," so as to make the motor run continuously and harmoniously.

I finally flooded the engine, and the mechanic in town had to come to take the car away.

This afternoon, Friday afternoon, I asked him what he'd done, as the car ran easily and smoothly (it'd been returned to me Wednesday afternoon), starting up with no problem.

He said, "Well, we brought it in, and your engine was just flooded, nothing more than that."

A $12 charge for taking it in and bringing it out here again, no other charges.

I asked if perhaps the distributor cap was cracked.  He showed me.  Nope.

I asked if something might be wrong with the catalytic converter; he said he'd checked it out, and it was fine. 

A new ignition had been installed in December 2011 by a mechanic in a small town far away from here (because that's where I was), also a new starter, new spark plugs, a tune-up, the whole bit.  This other mechanic has an outstanding reputation, a great reputation, and there's no doubt about the quality of his work or the parts.

Okay.  Not the fuel pump, not the fuel filter, not the ignition, not the starter, not the catalytic converter, not the distributor cap, not the battery.

Even though the car at present is running as if just off the assembly line, I sort of suspect the next time there's a damp night here, ooooops.

If this happens again, what haven't I considered thus far, as the source of the problem.

*as I don't make a whole lot of money, and am so tight I make Ebenezer Scrooge look like Santa Claus, this mechanic and the second one mentioned further on have always been knowledgeable about, and sympathetic of my plight; considerate of my funds.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 03:27:47 PM »
I thought you were driving a late-model Buick.  There is no carburetor to flood.

Based on your description (new starter, recent tune-up), I would check the battery cables for a loose connection.  It's a simple fix.  There isn't much else in the ignition/starter circuit to go wrong.

My Buick had a bad crankshaft position sensor that exhibited the same problem.  Often, it would not start after sitting overnight or would stop running while idling.  It was a common problem and should show up as a fault in the car's computer.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 03:32:09 PM by chris_ »
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Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2012, 03:37:05 PM »
I thought you were driving a late-model Buick.  There is no carburetor to flood.

Based on your description (new starter, recent tune-up), I would check the battery cables for a loose connection.  It's a simple fix.  There isn't much else in the ignition/starter circuit to go wrong.

My Buick had a bad crankshaft position sensor that exhibited the same problem.  Often, it would not start after sitting overnight or would stop running while idling.  It was a common problem and should show up as a fault in the car's computer.

No, I had a Buick before this one, but because of the rough roads (not that rough roads are a characteristic of Nebraska; it's just where I drive), I finally broke the front axle and bent the tie-rods, and said to Hell with it.  That was about three years ago.  What I have now's a cheap Ford, ten years old, because I have "access" to all sorts of newer vehicles if I need to use one.  As long as I'm going to be Hell on axles and tie-rods, I didn't see much of a point in getting anything other than.....cheap.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012, 03:37:29 PM »
If this is not just another of your weird "storeys", it would be helpful to know the make , model & year of your transport. What with the new EFI & computers, things can get complicated. Shade tree mechanicin ain't what it used to be.

Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 03:40:37 PM »
If this is not just another of your weird "storeys", it would be helpful to know the make , model & year of your transport. What with the new EFI & computers, things can get complicated. Shade tree mechanicin ain't what it used to be.

Damn, you're going to make me go outside in the hot sun and look to see what it is.

Cars have never been anything but a mode of transportation to me, nothing else, and so I don't pay attention.

Hang on.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 03:51:11 PM »
Damn, you're going to make me go outside in the hot sun and look to see what it is.

Cars have never been anything but a mode of transportation to me, nothing else, and so I don't pay attention.

Hang on.

Based on your response, perform the following.
1. Check insurance coverage (comprehensive)
2. Obtain at least 1 gal. gasolene (regular OK)
3. Obtain one strike anywhere match (more if windy)
4. Liberally apply gasoline to the aformentioned vehicle.
5. Strike match & apply to vehicle.
6. After car cools, contact insurance agent.

Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 03:52:13 PM »
Damn.

It's a Ford Tempo, according to the registration in the glove compartment, 1994.

I paid $200 for it three years ago, after finding out replacements of tie-rods on it were cheap (and have been).

I sold the Buick, broken front axle, bent tie-rods, and all, for $650 in 2009.

I know it sounds silly, but really, cars have never been important to me.  Just so long as all four wheels turn the same direction, I'm cool with it.  Even with a gun pointed at my head, I couldn't itemize all the cars I've owned since I was 16 years old, because I really didn't pay attention.

It was in 2007 that I hitched up with a business partner (forensic accounting) who's also part-owner of a new-car dealership in the Sandhills, and any time I need to show off, I borrow one from there.  Also, I take care of various properties with free use of motor vehicles when the owners are absent (usually for a couple of months or more; your usual standard run-of-the-mill pick-up trucks, luxury sedans).

This is my personal running-around car here.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012, 04:00:41 PM »
Based on your response, perform the following.
1. Check insurance coverage (comprehensive)
2. Obtain at least 1 gal. gasolene (regular OK)
3. Obtain one strike anywhere match (more if windy)
4. Liberally apply gasoline to the aformentioned vehicle.
5. Strike match & apply to vehicle.
6. After car cools, contact insurance agent.

Oh now, I know to lots of people, cars are important.  I'm in a minority here; I just don't care.

When I was 15, 16, 17 years old, while my friends were learning about cars, I was learning about income taxes.

And so it worked out that I did their taxes (for many years), and they took care of whatever car I happened to have at the time; cars just didn't push my buttons, rock my chair, row my boat.

I know I'm in a minority, but I can't help being me.

When I was in college, I used to "house-sit" for affluent people while they were on long trips (I was cheaper than putting the dog and cat into kennels at the veterinary, plus the bonus being that the dog and cat weren't discombobulated, staying at home), and it always included use of whatever was in their garage.

I'm very careful with other people's property; my own, not so much.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012, 04:08:21 PM »
94 tempo is an EFI & as said earlier, can't flood. From this we can assume your mechanic might be BSing you. As the car only has problems after cold damp soak, I would guess bad ground. Unfortunately not the big one coming off the battery.  More likely computer, ignition or fuel pump grounds. Not clear how many years you got out of it but for $200, you done good if you got a year out of it. Run it untill it won't run anymore & sell it to someone who can fiddle with it. From your description of driving conditions, I would look for an American mini-pickup, Ranger S-10 etc.

Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 04:18:43 PM »
94 tempo is an EFI & as said earlier, can't flood. From this we can assume your mechanic might be BSing you.

He may have just simplified things.  I'm deaf and sometimes one has to do that.

What I did Wednesday morning, when the car started, wouldn't stay started, I got all impatient and jammed down on the gasoline pedal several times.  One isn't supposed to do this with electronic engines, and I know it, and I've done it only maybe three times while I've had this car.

Quite obviously somehow I just squirted way too much gasoline into the engine.  Or something like that.

The mechanic probably put it in "shorthand" to me; franksolich's language in real life does not quite correspond with the English language.

Quote
As the car only has problems after cold damp soak, I would guess bad ground. Unfortunately not the big one coming off the battery.  More likely computer, ignition or fuel pump grounds.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind when it happens again.

Quote
Not clear how many years you got out of it but for $200, you done good if you got a year out of it.

So far, more than three years.  It's been cheap to run, and other than tie-rods, low-maintenance.

Quote
Run it until it won't run anymore & [get rid of it]

That's the plan.  I do the same with computers and stuff, too.  Buy them used, use them up until there's nothing left to be used up any more.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012, 04:29:51 PM »
Quite obviously somehow I just squirted way too much gasoline into the engine.  Or something like that.


You can mash the pedal all you want to if the engine isn't running the computer wont send fuel to the injectors.

Good plan.  The U.S. made little pickups might save you some money on suspension repairs.  I had a Ranger & put 160K on it with one brake job.  Unfortunately my wife ended the experiment by sliding into an overpass.

Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2012, 04:32:58 PM »

By the way, I first learned how to drive using a rusted-out ancient Army surplus jeep dating from the Korean War, older than I was.

It was at the drive-in theatre out in the Sandhills; the gears were rusty and reluctant (obviously it was clutch), half the floor was gone, meaning one could see the underworkings right below him, brakes virtually non-existent.  The seat was bare metal.  There were sharp edges all around; one had to be careful for tetanus.

I used to take that thing down steep inclines, through gullies, and learned to gently nose it down sharp drops.

I even occasionally took it out on the highway, even though I wasn't supposed to (it hadn't been registered and licensed since 1958 or something, and here, we're talking 16, 17 years later).

The drive-in theatre had no place to stash it, so it sat outside, 24/7/365.

I have fond memories of that wretched vehicle.  It had what I then called "the magic button," which when yanked, made it start.  Every time.  It wasn't until years later I learned it was called the "choke."

That was one vehicle that impressed me.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2012, 04:34:41 PM »
You can mash the pedal all you want to if the engine isn't running the computer wont send fuel to the injectors.

The engine was running, in a manner.

Like I said, it would start.  It would turn over and something would "catch."  But then it wouldn't keep running.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 04:50:55 PM »
The engine was running, in a manner.

Like I said, it would start.  It would turn over and something would "catch."  But then it wouldn't keep running.

A little radiant heater in the engine compartment at night might keep the moisture from soaking into the connectors. But I'm pretty sure, you have a new vehicle in your future.

Offline franksolich

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2012, 04:53:28 PM »
A little radiant heater in the engine compartment at night might keep the moisture from soaking into the connectors. But I'm pretty sure, you have a new vehicle in your future.

Right; when this happens again, which I'm sure it will after some damp night, I plan to have your suggestions looked into, and go from there.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 04:58:39 PM »
Right; when this happens again, which I'm sure it will after some damp night, I plan to have your suggestions looked into, and go from there.

Qufortunately, most shops just want to replace things.  If you have a friend who is mechanically inclined they could check the engine compartment connectors.  When you pull them apart & see green stuff that is a bad connection. Clean the contacts smear on a little silicone grease & good to go.

Offline CG6468

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Re: car anomaly
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 09:32:14 PM »
I've seen a spray of WD40 used on the dist cap and the spark plug wires on damp mornings and a car would fire right up. It even worked on my 1966 Ford after I drove thru deep water and killed the engine.
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