Author Topic: Tsaras  (Read 4159 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Tsaras
« on: October 28, 2010, 09:12:29 PM »
Last Friday I was returning from a school attended through the National Guard.

I was in uniform and a woman stopped me in the terminal and wanted to bless me. Far be it for me to lecture someone about casting pearls before rabbits but she then told me to make certain before I enter combat to recite Psalm 91. She recounted a legend of dubious believability concerning WW1.

Apparently, while American units engaged in 3 prominent battles were sustaining casualty rates in the 90-percentile range but one American general commanded his men to recite Ps. 91 and as such they were spared any fatalities.

The first thought in my mind was: horse shit.

This is not to poo-poo the notion of miracles out-of-hand. If there be a God and Bugs Bunny is indeed created in His image then nothing should forbid us from entertaining the possibility of miracles.

Rather, I was upset by this notion that a personal God could so easily be reduced to some mechanistic shamanism.

And then my discontent grew further.

I wondered why anyone should pray to be delivered from pain and suffering. Surely we must all die and so few of us meet with an agreeable death. Either we die decrepit and broken or we are killed while vitality still courses through us. Either option is disappointing in the extreme.

But--if there be a God--death may be beyond the original divine plan but death and suffering are creatures of the Creator and the Creator being the embodiment of all that is Good then death and suffering descend from the Good.

Simply put: they are not punishments, they are remedies. They are the membrane between the world you are born into and the choice between two deathless worlds where you must choose either reconciliation and communion with the Creator or rejection.

Praying away pain?

It is voodoo and it is an insult to that choice.

Consider...

Tsaras is the transliteration for the Hebrew word for leprosy.

In many rabbinic commentaries it is also synonymous with sin.

People tend to think of leprosy as a rotting disease. This would be incorrect. The disease attacks the peripheral nervous system. The deformities, blindness and hideous injuries are, counter-intuitively but far more allegorically significant, self-inflicted.

People suffering from leprosy cannot feel how heavy they step. They can literally trod so heavily or misstep they injure themselves because they cannot sense misuse of their own limbs.

Victims of the disease cannot feel when their eyes become dry and so they do not blink, leading to blindness.

Wounds never heal because there is no sensation of injury.

Now consider the stories of the cleansing of the lepers.

What was restored to them was the gift of pain. While so many pray to have their pains removed from them only the cleansed leper can speak to the beauty of the ability to know when you are harming yourself.

Do we not describe someone who has over-consumed entertainments that focus on sex and/or violence as becoming "desensitized"? The epistle to the Hebrews speaks of this when is notes, "there is pleasure in sin for a season" but the pleasure soon deserts the sinner.

Consider the single most dangerous person is the sociopath, a person who has no sensation of doing wrong. They are untouched by sensations of pity or pangs of guilt. They are lepers on a psychological level.

On a personal note (and please, no expressions of pity; I'm a big bunny) I grew up from the time I can first remember at age 5 and 6 until I left for the Army at age 18 witnessing an incessant world  of alcoholism, domestic violence, drug abuse, disease and suicide from every single adult ever to enter my life.

As I watched parents and grandparents grow sick and in the latter case, die-off I remember an absolute emotional void. I did not grieve for any of them. I'm not capable of it. I do not even feel enough for them to be upset about the fact I do not grieve.

I see the threads for those of you suffering with the loss of a loved one and I can only feel fascination wondering what it is to have such feelings. I do not mean to trivialize anyone's loss but I never comment because I have no frame of reference, only a cold, sterile view from the outside. What some of you find heart-shattering I find enviable.

You should be grateful for your pain...

...and never--never--pray for your pain to be taken away from you.

I assure you: you will not enjoy the sensation.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 09:28:31 PM »
For a bunny, you're pretty creepy.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 07:56:51 AM »
For a bunny, you're pretty creepy.

No , it's sad.

If you can't experience saddest, then what's the likelihood of  ever experiencing joy? If you don't feel pain at the loss of a grandparent/parent/sibling, how can you ever feel that you are truly loved by anyone?

It's sortta the Newtons Law of emotions.





 
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 09:37:07 AM »
For a bunny, you're pretty creepy.

Granted without argument but what about the substance of the OP?

No , it's sad.

If you can't experience saddest, then what's the likelihood of  ever experiencing joy? If you don't feel pain at the loss of a grandparent/parent/sibling, how can you ever feel that you are truly loved by anyone?

It's sortta the Newtons Law of emotions.

Actually, that would be more akin to dualism and that can easily stray in Eastern philosophies. Yin-Yang sorta stuff.

You do not need sorrow in order to feel joy. Joy can exist wholly separate of joy. I do not need to see one bunlet die to feel the joy of having another bunlet born.

By contrast, Sorrow itself is dependent upon of Joy. It is the feeling of seeing what-ought-to-be reduced by corruption and privation. If not for Joy, Sorrow could not exist.

Could we know the disappointment of moldy bread if we did not first know the joy of freshly baked bread? Take away bread altogether and there will never be a reason to be disappointed.

The distinctions seem minor but the gulf between them is the span between Heaven and Hell.
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Offline rubliw

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 11:31:34 PM »
Pain and suffering only work so well because we are wired to avoid them whenever possible.  If we didn't want to avoid pain and suffering wherever possible, they couldn't do their job.  The leper would still stomp his feet, even though it caused him pain.  So it's not surprising or odd to me that people try to avoid pain, or that some even pray to eliminate their needless suffering.  

Most of us don't like to suffer if we don't have too.  Obviously, some good things require us to experience some pain and suffering, but there is always a cost/benefit analysis involved... we voluntarily pay a cost in some suffering, if we expect some comparatively greater benefit.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 11:35:28 PM by rubliw »

Offline Wineslob

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2010, 04:42:24 PM »
I would not be reminded of the love I feel for people or pets if were not for the pain I feel at thier passing.
Example: we recently lost a cat of 15+ years last monday. I was the one that had to take him in for the "deed" at the Vet. It was heartbreaking as he was the first cat that was "our" cat. After his passing I drove his body home to bury him in our backyard. It was an honor.
 I ran all the memories I had of him though my mind. Finding him that cold, Easter weekend under a bush, abandoned by his mother and nearly dead. Nursing him back to health using Tiny Tiger formula(how he got his name), the midnight feedings afterwards, and cleaning his little face once he discovered wet food.
 The pain is necessary to remember the love and to gather the fondness of those memories after the pain is lessened.

Damn, a week hasen't been long enough.................. :-[
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 05:15:26 PM »
The pain is necessary to remember the love and to gather the fondness of those memories after the pain is lessened.

Not to make light of your sorrow but his passing was not necessary. Had he never died you would still love him. In fact, the sorrow is dependent upon the love for had you never loved there would be no sorrow.



Quote from: rubliw
Pain and suffering only work so well because we are wired to avoid them whenever possible...

An astounding contribution of absolutely nothing. It is akin to claiming eating only works so well because our bodies are wired to consume food.
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Offline rubliw

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2010, 06:39:34 PM »
Quote
An astounding contribution of absolutely nothing. It is akin to claiming eating only works so well because our bodies are wired to consume food.

Heh, ok.... but you made a post which expressed puzzlement over the fact that people would actually pray or wish to lessen their suffering.  

Quote
I wondered why anyone should pray to be delivered from pain and suffering.

So, um... yea.  Sorry for answering the question.  Now that you mention it, the OP does look a little like your example, and is akin to asking why one would pray to be delivered from their hunger.

Anyhow... another consideration is needless suffering.  Its true that a little suffering or a little pain might make us appreciate the finer things a little more. Other times suffering can be completely debilitating or permanently damaging and, as far as we can tell, results in no positive consequences at all.  Our pain receptors don't differentiate between situations where suffering might result in a heightened appreciation for the finer things in life later on, and situations where it will only cripple us or kill us.  So on these grounds too, it makes sense to me that people wish to be delivered from suffering.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 06:42:50 PM by rubliw »

Offline soleil

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 08:09:12 PM »
But we should pray to end suffering at least according to the Bible.

James 5:13-16 (KJV)
 13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Confess your trespasses[a] to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Offline Thor

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2010, 12:47:35 AM »
But we should pray to end suffering at least according to the Bible.

James 5:13-16 (KJV)
 13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Confess your trespasses[a] to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Bullshit...... that was tried with my mom and she still died a miserable death.....
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Offline soleil

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 05:23:56 PM »
Bullshit...... that was tried with my mom and she still died a miserable death.....


I am sorry about your mom. I've seen 2 of my grandparents die pretty miserable deaths, even with prayer.

I still believe we should pray to end suffering, as well as pray for other things. It may not always work the way we want it to, but it can't hurt to have a conversation with God about it. Of course, others feel differently. This is my take. I also know firsthand how easy it is to question God and why He does things the way He does. And I don't think these things can be answered here on earth.

Offline dutch508

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2010, 07:16:09 PM »
Pttth.

I thought this was a Dr. Who thread.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 12:23:45 PM »
Pttth.

I thought this was a Dr. Who thread.
So apparently you have a thing for British fags.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Tsaras
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 12:58:07 PM »
Really crap when one looks at all this.

Eve was doomed as all woman to have pain in child birth.

So how did this go to the female animals that cannot commit sin.?

Watched this documentary about Elephants, the female was in labor, the other females in the tribe, the Aunties surrounded her and got her off the ground before her weight collapsed her lungs.  The baby was cared for by the Aunties untill the mothers milk came in.

Then there was a film of a mother whose baby died, very sad as she carried it in her tusks for a few days and then dug a hole for the baby and covered it.


Strange very much human behavior.

Pain is a survival method to all species, it allerts us to problems we may not know about.----------some problems can be corrected, others cannot .

Why we feel pain is not to be debated, it is the Alarm that the body has a problem.