Why do we even have teachers?

[miskie]

Miskie takes the thread on a tangent -- but just for a moment.

I can happily report that as of the end of the lottery we were required to go through, my kids will be relocated to a charter school, starting with the oldest - the area school currently covers 5th grade through high-school, so the younger two aren't old enough yet.. But at least they will get automatic entry since the oldest is now enrolled.

She doesn't yet know it though - were going to spring it on her this summer -- from the harder curriculum, to the school uniforms, and a gym class that teaches martial arts, she wants nothing to do with it. Too bad.. :D

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[ace61502]

Miskie takes the thread on a tangent -- but just for a moment.

I can happily report that as of the end of the lottery we were required to go through, my kids will be relocated to a charter school, starting with the oldest - the area school currently covers 5th grade through high-school, so the younger two aren't old enough yet.. But at least they will get automatic entry since the oldest is now enrolled.

She doesn't yet know it though - were going to spring it on her this summer -- from the harder curriculum, to the school uniforms, and a gym class that teaches martial arts, she wants nothing to do with it. Too bad.. :D

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

CONGRATS!

[Splashdown]

I may very well get BS'ed for this (what else is new?) but the bolded portion, going from my personal experience, is bullshit.

I spent two years studying higher math for my degree.  At my university, as at I'm guessing most universities, something like 80% of the math majors were also education majors, with the remaining 20% a more-or-less even split between applied math and math theory.

A lot of the applied guys would take math theory courses as electives, and us theory guys would take some of the harder applied courses if schedules permitted (PDE's, numerical analysis, etc.).  We did it because we enjoyed the material and/or enjoyed the challenge.

The ed majors, on the other hand, only took those higher-level courses (think anything past multi-variable calculus) which they needed for their teacher certification.  Things like number theory, modern algebra, probability - nothing that's difficult at the intro level, or at least it had better not be if you're supposed to teach the stuff.

These kids would complain about how difficult the material was, and how it wasn't relevant to what they wanted to do.  (Yeah, because algebraic topology and measure theory are really relevant to my helpdesk job.)  They shyed away from challenge.  They were SLACKERS.  No curiousity about their supposed passion, no drive to improve themselves.  More often than not, when you asked them why they wanted to teach math, they'd say something along the lines of the shortage of math teachers guaranteeing them a job.

The only way you can claim that math teachers, at least, have "incredible amounts of training" is if by training you mean the Marxist drivel they teach over at the Education department.
Behind the batsh*t insanity, FlyingSquirrel actually has something resembling a coherent thought.  The awful pay of teaching professions does tend to turn off the more competent.  Even without any Education credentials, there's fast-track programs where with my Math degree I could be teaching in a year or less - and be getting paid to get a Master's in Education at the same time.  I know, I looked into them right before graduating.  But considering that I easily make twice a teacher's starting salary working in a call center, and I make, oh I'm guessing 4 or more times a teacher's hourly rate tutoring high school math on the side, why on Earth would I bother with something like that?

Sorry it too me so long to get back to this post. I'm not going to BS you, but lots of those teachers don't make it. Hell; lots of GOOD teachers don't make it.

Half of all "teachers" don't make it to 5 years; a third don't make it past the first three years (link). Lots of those kids in education courses expecting teaching to be a gravy job are mistaken and gone pretty quickly.

[MrsSmith]

That's a HUGE part of the problem. In my program, I was only required to take ONE special ed course, and it was crap. The professor was hugely known in the special ed field, but he couldn't teach worth shit. I also happened to be his grad assistant, so a lot of what I knew about special ed I got from the stuff he was working on outside of teaching. When I had a kid in my class who had an IEP, it was horrible-they always managed to schedule her IEP meetings when I was in class, and then I got blasted for never being at them. When I mentioned that perhaps they could schedule them when I wasn't teaching...that didn't go over very well.

What I saw as a big issue was that even when a teacher did pick up on things-in my case this kid being functionally illiterate-when we went to the people who were supposed to help, we got stonewalled. I would have loved to be able to take this kid aside every day and help him with his reading, but I'll be honest and tell you that because my degree was in secondary ed, I had no clue about how to even begin to help. My training helped me with a lot of things, but teaching a 14 year old reading comprehension wasn't one of them.

Most teachers are inadequately trained to deal with kids who are not within the norm-academically or emotionally. The last study I read (which was awhile ago) said that only around 1 in five new teachers would still be teaching in three to five years. The burnout rate is tremendous, for a variety of reasons-lots of work, low pay, high expectational outcome vs lack of support from school admin, kids who are discipline nightmares, parents who don't care. It's a nasty, vicious cycle and throwing money at the problem doesn't help, which is all the NEA does. The NEA is a load of crap. I despise them. They don't DO anything. I feel the same way about teacher's unions. Worthless.

That being said...I would hazard a guess and say that most teachers LOVE your kids. They want them to succeed, want them to do well, and would go out of their way to help your kid. But they are also very overworked, have to go through a metric ****ton of red tape on a daily basis, and have the school admins breathing down their neck to make sure that all of their students pass the state assessments.

I absolutely agree that teachers get shafted, also.  The teachers my son had were all nice people, and  worked hard...and they honestly didn't see the problem.  However, they also "put me in my place" for daring to disagree with their "professional opinion," even though they all know perfectly well that they weren't trained to recognise or deal with dyslexia, or any other "minor" disability.  If they couldn't be bothered to learn disabilities, couldn't they at least be upfront about it and tell me where I could go for more assistance? 

[The Village Idiot]

we need to get govt and unions out of the school business. we need choice, vouchers, vouchers for homeschooling with no strings. we need a bit of everything and anything to see what works for what kids.

spending per kid in DC is now pegged over $28,000.... thats insane... and the Dems scratch a $6,000 voucher that saved taxpayers $22,000 per kid and gave those kids a better education.

[YupItsMe]

I think teachers would do fine if they just spent more time teaching and less time pushing their liberal propaganda down the kids throats.  Half their damn day is wasted trying to brainwash them into little liberals.  I believe it is a very deliberate agenda on their part.   Also, a few less field trips might help.