primitives in favor of job-killing taxes

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9150963

Oh my.

Oh dear.

Nothing is more dreary than watching the primitives sitting around a campfire, jibber-jabbering "economics."

But since I loaded this campfire up into the boat and brought it over here, I may as well post it:

SHRED  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-17-10 10:26 AM
Original message
 
The false premise of "job killing taxes" exposed 

From Prairie2...enjoy:

The Republicans talk about jobs

~snip~

Most small businessmen simply don’t take that much money out of their businesses, but re-invest to minimize their taxes or they are being hammered by big business (you know, the real Republicans) and don’t make anything like 250,000 a year anyway. This is of course the false premise the Republicans are using to paint this a job killer. A business only pays income taxes on profit, taxing profit has nothing to do with how many jobs are created. In fact just the opposite is true as a higher top marginal tax rate encourages re-investment to avoid paying the higher tax.

Not a single owner operated business will cut jobs to spite Obama for raising taxes and they are by no means compelled to do so since wages are paid from gross income and not from net taxable income. The number of jobs “created” depends entirely on demand for the product or service the business provides and nothing else. The austerity the Republicans are pushing would of course cut demand for products and services that’s why the Republicans don’t want any stimulus money spent as it would have a positive effect.

http://www.prairie2.com/2010/09/republicans-talk-about-...

NoSheep  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-17-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. And there you have it.

dkf  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-17-10 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
 
3. The flip side of taxes is what is left for consumption. Consumption makes our economy function 

The fear is that in a recession caused by lack of demand decreasing the amount of disposable income may cause a decrease in spending. Decreases in spending lead to job losses.

Schema Thing  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-17-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. yep. I know how you can get a 100% tax break on your money.
 
Hire someone.

alc (265 posts)      Fri Sep-17-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
 
5. There's very little in business that is as simple as either side tries to portray.

The number of jobs “created” depends entirely on demand for the product or service the business provides and nothing else.

Demand is usually increased with sales, marketing, and R&D/product diversification (less functional but cheaper version, different color, subscription vs one-time sale, new customers, niche/vertical customers etc). Small companies who do these successfully are the ones who become medium then big companies.

Small but growing businesses probably aren't making a profit so taxes are not an issue like the article says. But medium sized businesses often have a profit from erratic income. They need to reserve much of the profit to make sure they can meet payroll during the low income periods (i.e. don't want to invest all profit into growth activities)

We need tax rates tied to job creation, rather than one side arguing "low taxes create jobs" and the other saying "tax rates don't affect jobs" then coming up with a number that applies to everyone (there are different rates, incentives, etc now, but they aren't based on job creation)

The DU AdBot primitive's been rather bland all this year; one suspects the DU AdBot primitive won't even get nominated this year for Top DUmmies [Primitives] of 2010, it's been so dull.

[Duke Nukum]

These people are such idiots one wonders how they manage to breath.  How the heck have they been alive long enough to learn how to type and post online?

[jukin]

Dennis Miller says that if the Obama tax increase goes through that small business owners should go out into the parking lot look for Obama bumper stickers and fire those people. He thinks those people would want to lose their job for their ideology. 

Jukin agrees with that.

[AllosaursRus]

Hey you stoooopid, stoooopid, stoooopid, DUmb sonsabitches! If a small business owner has a net of $250,000, even if he only pays himself $80,000, the remainder, to O'Bumbler, is still considered profit and he/she has to pay tax on it! You don't pay tax on the $80,000 you consider "personal" income, you pay tax on the whole $250,000!!!

You're not allowed to keep any sort of cushion for when your widget isn't selling because of the piss poor way his admin is running, scratch that, ruining the economy! If he has his way, 30% will go to feed the IRS so we can teach illiterates how to wash their nut sack!

[Wineslob]

DUmmies: no business pays taxes, the comsumers do............with higher retail prices..................****ing idiots.

[AllosaursRus]

DUmmies: no business pays taxes, the comsumers do............with higher retail prices..................****ing idiots.

Actually, depending upon the product or service, there is a line that cannot be crossed, or the consumer will just abstain, as it's not worth it!

[DumbAss Tanker]

"Primitives in favor of job-killing taxes."  Now there's a shocking revelation!

 

[true_blood]

These people are such idiots one wonders how they manage to breath.  How the heck have they been alive long enough to learn how to type and post online?

Bingo!
I cannot comprehend their train of thought. 

[Mike220]

Dennis Miller says that if the Obama tax increase goes through that small business owners should go out into the parking lot look for Obama bumper stickers and fire those people. He thinks those people would want to lose their job for their ideology. 

Jukin agrees with that.

If I was a business owner, that's exactly what I would do.

[AllosaursRus]

If I was a business owner, that's exactly what I would do.

I don't hire 'em in the first frikkin' place!

[NHSparky]

I don't hire 'em in the first frikkin' place!

Which is EXACTLY what businesses are (not) doing now--hiring, knowing full well that when January 1st, 2011 rolls around, they won't be able to keep the employees they DO have, let alone any new ones.

Dear DUmmies--Law of Unintended Consequences mean anything to ya'll?  You think the economy sucks now?  Just wait until your boy king's plans REALLY kick in.

[BlueStateSaint]

If I was a business owner, that's exactly what I would do.

Ditto!

Mike, jukin, AR . . . H5s for that, BTW.

[Karin]

Actually, depending upon the product or service, there is a line that cannot be crossed, or the consumer will just abstain, as it's not worth it!

Quite true.  And then everyone suffers.  I'm reminded of an interview with someone, I can't remember, but he was a businessman looking to run for office.  He recounted the tale of some New York politician merrily raising taxes.  The businessman, who was connected, confronted the politican about it.  The pollitican said, "what's your big problem?  You guys just pass all this stuff on, anyway."  The businessman was dumbfounded, and asked him, "where the hell do you think money comes from?"  

They are so clueless.  How did it get to be so bad?  The stupidest people winning public office.  GAAAH!  

[BlueStateSaint]

Quite true.  And then everyone suffers.  I'm reminded of an interview with someone, I can't remember, but he was a businessman looking to run for office.  He recounted the tale of some New York politician merrily raising taxes.  The businessman, who was connected, confronted the politican about it.  The pollitican said, "what's your big problem?  You guys just pass all this stuff on, anyway."  The businessman was dumbfounded, and asked him, "where the hell do you think money comes from?"  

They are so clueless.  How did it get to be so bad?  The stupidest people winning public office.  GAAAH!  

And our state, Karin, is full of 'em.

[Carl]

And our state, Karin, is full of 'em.

DUmmynomic theory...

[Freeper]

Schema Thing  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-17-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. yep. I know how you can get a 100% tax break on your money.
 
Hire someone.

Please someone splain to me how that works.
I just am not nuanced enough to figure that out.

[Randy]

Please someone splain to me how that works.
I just am not nuanced enough to figure that out.

I know I'm hoping that it means that since I hire someone to mow my lawn, I no longer have to pay taxes! WOOHOO 

[Carl]

Please someone splain to me how that works.
I just am not nuanced enough to figure that out.

It probably is of no use to also try to explain that each employee comes with an increase in payroll taxes too as well as additional unemployment and workers comp.

[AllosaursRus]

Schema Thing  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-17-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. yep. I know how you can get a 100% tax break on your money.
 
hire someone start a political blog for DUmbasses, beg for donations, go on a lot of vacations like the pres, and write it off as business expense.

fixored!

[BlueStateSaint]

DUmmynomic theory...

Neighbor, if you've got those growing up by you, I want a few!  H5!

[Freeper]

It probably is of no use to also try to explain that each employee comes with an increase in payroll taxes too as well as additional unemployment and workers comp.

The DUmmies have no clue as to what it takes to run a business.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Please someone splain to me how that works.
I just am not nuanced enough to figure that out.

Simple:
Step 1:  Hire somebody.
Step 2:  Magic!
Step 3:  Money rolls in.

[Freeper]

Simple:
Step 1:  Hire somebody.
Step 2:  Magic!
Step 3:  Money rolls in.

Ohh I see just like spending money brings prosperity.
I think i understand DUmmynomics now.

[BlueStateSaint]

Simple:
Step 1:  Hire somebody.
Step 2:  Magic!
Step 3:  Money rolls in.

I think I saw something about that once.

http://brookesnews.com/100305magicalthinking.html

[DumbAss Tanker]

Tsk tsk, how dare you all mock the Obama Three-Step Prosperity Plan for America!