Agree or disagree: Iconic WW2-era photo should be removed

[CC27]

True Dough (16,970 posts)

Agree or disagree: Iconic WW2-era photo should be removed



A recent memo from the Department of Veterans Affairs to its regional offices directed all copies of the iconic World War II photo of a sailor kissing a woman in Times Square on V-J Day to be removed from agency facilities because it depicts a "non-consensual act."

RimaAnn Nelson, the VA's assistant secretary of health for operations, sent the Feb. 29 memo calling for the prompt removal of the photo -- capturing a historic moment of public jubilation after Japan surrendered in 1945 -- saying it was "inconsistent with the VA's no-tolerance policy toward sexual harassment and assault." But on Tuesday, VA Secretary Denis McDonough intervened, saying the photograph can remain. "Let me be clear: This image is not banned from VA facilities -- and we will keep it in VA facilities," he wrote on the social media platform X.

Nelson wrote in the memo that the placement of the photo in VA facilities was originally meant to commemorate the end of World War II and the return of American troops, but that perspectives on historical events "evolve."

"To foster a more trauma-informed environment that promotes the psychological safety of our employees and the veterans we serve, photographs depicting the 'V-J Day in Times Square' should be removed from all Veterans Health Administration facilities," she wrote in the memo.


https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/03/05/va-order-remove-iconic-world-war-ii-kiss-photo-facilities-reversed-secretary-mcdonough.html

no_hypocrisy (45,467 posts)
1. The motivation was not sexually predatory.

The War ended. Granted you didn't see the sailor kissing another sailor. And he likely stopped once he kissed the nurse. There was such a state of exhilaration that there was irrational behavior. And it didn't lead to widespread assaults on women.

Matter of fact, it's reminiscent of the M*A*S*H* episode where Col. Henry Blake is reviewing the Unit for the last time, saying goodbye, and suddenly embraces Lt. Margaret Houlihan, the Head Nurse. He wasn't doing to humiliate her, to abuse her, to be predatory. It's as if it were a recreation of the referenced photo of VJ Day in Times Square.

You don't have to agree with me. But please look at the big picture.

yardwork (61,245 posts)
17. The "big picture" would include the woman's perspective.

Your entire post represents your assumptions about the man's motivations and actions. You don't dedicate even a phrase to any thoughts about the woman's experience.

You have no idea whether the man's motivation was sexually predatory or not. And you certainly have no idea how the woman felt about being grabbed and assaulted. And, referencing a TV show from the 1970s that has whole plot lines built around blatant sexism isn't helping your case.

I'll leave one further thought. Would the VA tolerate a patient treating one of their employees this way?

maxrandb (15,083 posts)
3. So, let me get this straight

This picture is "inappropriate", but electing an actual rapist as president, and being legislatively mandated to hang his picture at EVERY military unit and government agency is OK?

Someone please stop this rock from spinning for a minute so I can get off.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218752733

DUmmies being stupid again.

[SVPete]

yardwork (61,245 posts)
17. The "big picture" would include the woman's perspective.

Your entire post represents your assumptions about the man's motivations and actions. You don't dedicate even a phrase to any thoughts about the woman's experience.

You have no idea whether the man's motivation was sexually predatory or not. And you certainly have no idea how the woman felt about being grabbed and assaulted. ...

Wow! So much man-hatred, so much "seeing" what wasn't there. The picture was from almost 80 years ago, did the woman ever comment that she objected? Or is it just man-hating feminazis whinging after she's deceased and no longer able to speak for herself?

maxrandb (15,083 posts)
3. So, let me get this straight

This picture is "inappropriate", but electing an actual rapist as president ...

WJC was convicted of rape? When? We know who his victim was - Juanita Broaddrick - but when was he prosecuted in criminal court and convicted?

[Ralph Wiggum]

‘She Never Felt Violated’: Granddaughter Of Nurse Kissed In Iconic WWII Photo Responds To VA’s Woke Memo

The granddaughter of the nurse featured in an iconic photo of her being kissed by a random sailor after the announcement of the end of World War II said her grandmother was “proud of the image” and “never felt violated.”

On V-J Day in 1945, dental nurse Greta Zimmer, who was Jewish and had fled Austria to escape Hitler and the Nazis in 1939, was walking through Times Square in New York City when a U.S. Navy sailor, most likely George Mendonsa, grabbed her, bent her backwards and kissed her. Famed photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt snapped the photo, which was published a week later in Life magazine and immediately became immortal. Zimmer later married Mischa Friedman and had a son and daughter.

But RimaAnn Nelson, the VA assistant secretary for health for operations, sent a memo in February to the Veterans Integrated Services Network Directors saying the photo should be removed and replaced at all VA facilities because it “depicted a non-consensual act,” and “is inconsistent with the VA’s no tolerance policy toward sexual harassment and assault.” The memo stated that the photo needed to be removed to maintain the department’s “respectful, safe and trauma-informed” workplace.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/she-never-felt-violated-granddaughter-of-nurse-kissed-in-iconic-wwii-photo-responds-to-vas-woke-memo

Game over, woketards.

[SVPete]

Adding to Ralph's post above, https://nypost.com/2012/06/17/the-true-story-behind-the-iconic-v-j-day-sailor-and-nurse-smooch/ .

The TL;DR version, the sailor was out on a date, with another woman. He had seen USS Bunker Hill hit by kamikazes and remembered the actions of nurses after the incident. He had a few drinks in him (celebrations of Japan's surrender) and the kiss was a less-than-sober impulse expression of (displaced) gratitude. The woman he dated, seen in the background of some pics, ended up marrying him, a marriage lasting >>60 years. Sadly, the (dental assistant) woman who was kissed lost her parents in a concentration camp, but later had a long marriage of her own.

The female official who objected to the photo is notorious for mas-mangling a VA hospital in St. Louis, https://nypost.com/2024/03/06/us-news/woke-veterans-affairs-official-who-pushed-hospitals-to-remove-iconic-kiss-photo-badly-mismanaged-st-louis-hospital/ . Why she has a job with the VA (instead of serving time in prison), I cannot fathom!

[jukin]

Nelson wrote in the memo that the placement of the photo in VA facilities was originally meant to commemorate the end of World War II and the return of American troops, but that perspectives on historical events "evolve."

Orwell could not have written that better. Well done VA you have achieved full 1984!

[CollectivismMustDie]

yardwork (61,245 posts)
17. The "big picture" would include the woman's perspective.

Your entire post represents your assumptions about the man's motivations and actions. You don't dedicate even a phrase to any thoughts about the woman's experience.

You have no idea whether the man's motivation was sexually predatory or not. And you certainly have no idea how the woman felt about being grabbed and assaulted...

Seeing as there were no women in those days with 25 cats, who hated men...

[CollectivismMustDie]

And of course PC-incel had to add his little bouncy to it...

[Ralph Wiggum]

And of course PC-incel had to add his little bouncy to it...

You made me look, so here's the insufferable bouncy:

PCIntern (25,198 posts)
11. You know...
Reply to True Dough (Original post)
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 07:57 AM
Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2024, 08:30 AM - Edit history (1)

this merits a response, and I usually don't take up these matters because they are generally "no-win".

The day after virtually my entire dental school class of 165 took the incredibly stressful two-day clinical examination to become licensed practitioners in the Northeast, the Northeast Regional Board Examination (NERB), at 9 A.M., the associate dean walked out of his office with a list of Social Security numbers of the students who did NOT pass, about fifteen if I remember correctly, and posted it on the bulletin board for the Senior Class. Probably 140 people were crammed into a moderately wide hallway, barely able to move, and as each of us managed to get to the Board, you could see the absolute relief and joy of the vast number of now-former students, never ever having to take a test again for the rest of our lives, having taken hundreds of them during our academic careers beginning in First Grade.

As I witnessed the fact that my number was NOT listed, checking it three times to make sure, I found my knees buckling, and a rush like no other I have experienced before or since. A fellow classmate of mine, a young lady with whom I do not believe I exchanged twenty words since First Year, simultaneously reacted to her non-listing, and we turned to each other, gave each other an enormous hug and a kiss, and I swear, and I am not making this up for sensationalism, she ground her nether region into mine for about ten seconds. We released each other's grasp, held each other's hands for a few seconds, and went our separate ways. I never saw her again, I believe she's in the Midwest somewhere.

It was an absolutely innocent moment of complete and utter joy and was expressed, at least by her, in the most intense way that she could with the person who happened to be standing right next to her. I'll never forget it and believe me, it was not an assault - it was a manifestation of extreme exuberance beyond comprehension.

This photo represents that much better than my paragraphs above, and all I was doing was finishing schooling and starting a career. These two people were involved in defeating the worst scourge in the history of the planet. They represent unbridled human joy. Let's just stop with the pontificating for a moment and understand the context of this great art.

If you type the phrase, "I swear, I'm not making this up" has all the hallmarks of a Penthouse letter or a traditionally DUmp bouncy tale.

[Airwolf]

I find it interesting that on the news last night they said the person that came up with this policy over the picture was in charge of the St. Louis VA.  The one that was rated the worse VA in the country before she left to take on the job she has now.

[enslaved1]

You made me look, so here's the insufferable bouncy:

If you type the phrase, "I swear, I'm not making this up" has all the hallmarks of a Penthouse letter or a traditionally DUmp bouncy tale.

Wait, he happened on a stranger who also failed, and their reaction was to hug, kiss and grind?  Yeah, sure.

Also, he never talked to her again, but has an idea where she's at?  Lying or stalker, neither option is very positive there, buddy. 

Nelson wrote in the memo that the placement of the photo in VA facilities was originally meant to commemorate the end of World War II and the return of American troops, but that perspectives on historical events "evolve."

Orwell could not have written that better. Well done VA you have achieved full 1984!

That line and your response sum up a major issue with the moonbat's worldview.  There's almost no good reason to sit around and pontificate on past events through modern ideologies.  All it does is confuse reality, which of course is what most moonbats desire, a reality that is defined moment by moment as whatever suits their needs at said moment. 

Yes, a modern woman would likely feel assaulted.  Some women at the time may have, but others would just chalk it up to being caught up in a moment and move on.  Is either feeling wrong?  Not really.  Is there any point in slapping modern ideology on an old event.  No, other than to stir pots and try to make oneself sound "intellectual" and "progressive". 

[USA4ME]

Leftists are as immature as it gets.

.

[Old n Grumpy]

I find it interesting that on the news last night they said the person that came up with this policy over the picture was in charge of the St. Louis VA.  The one that was rated the worse VA in the country before she left to take on the job she has now.

That’s how government service works. You do a really terrible job instead of firing you you get a promotion.

[Ptarmigan]

Woke VA official who pushed to remove WWII kiss photo ‘mismanaged’ St. Louis hospital where vets were reportedly exposed to HIV
https://nypost.com/2024/03/06/us-news/woke-veterans-affairs-official-who-pushed-hospitals-to-remove-iconic-kiss-photo-badly-mismanaged-st-louis-hospital/

She’s the kiss of death for hospitals.

The woke Veterans Affairs official who ordered hospitals to take down the iconic Times Square V-J-Day kissing photo previously mismanaged a Missouri hospital so badly, she was condemned by Democrats and Republicans alike.

Smooch-bashing VA bigwig RimaAnn Nelson headed the department’s St. Louis hospital for more than three years, during which time the facility was rated worst in the country — with patients allegedly left in their feces for days, and more than 1,800 of our nation’s heroes being exposed to HIV and hepatitis from unsterilized dental equipment, reports said.

“What happened in the dental clinic shouldn’t have ever happened,” an employee told an ensuing congressional investigation.

“If people were taking their jobs seriously, not passing the buck and pointing the finger, none of this would have happened.”

RimaAnn Nelson is easily the worst VA manager. She headed the worst rated VA hospital.

But after three years in the Philippines, Nelson was again given a different position — this time to lead a VA hospital in Phoenix, Ariz., where her appointment was met with swift backlash.

US Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) expressed his concerns about reports of “troubling mismanagement” in St. Louis and Nelson’s “total lack of experience” implementing a VA program, Arizona Central reports.

Reps. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) and Matt Salmon (R-Ariz.) even wrote a letter to President Barack Obama asking for her appointment to be blocked.

“Under Ms. Nelson’s tenure, the [St. Louis] hospital closed twice for unsafe and unsanitary conditions, and was ranked last in the country for patient satisfaction out of 126 VA medical centers,” they wrote, according to Arizona Central.

[SVPete]

A bit of the context given in the 2012 NYP article I linked above:

In August 1945, George Mendonsa was 22 years old, a Navy quartermaster on leave from the Pacific theater. He’d dropped out of school at 16 and worked with his dad, a commercial fisherman, in Rhode Island, enlisting in the Navy after the attack on Pearl Harbor: “Every kid my age wanted to get even with the Japanese.”

George didn’t like to talk about what he had seen, or his anxiety about what was coming, which everyone knew was the invasion of Japan. “I had just come back from the Philippines,” George says. “My ship had seen a lot of action. We were sent back to the States until the Army could get strong enough [to attack].”
...
Then he and Rita went to Times Square, and as they crossed Seventh Avenue at 44th Street, George caught sight of a woman in a nurse’s uniform: “What I remembered about the nurses from five months earlier . . .”

Actually, George has it wrong. It had been three months before, out in the Pacific, aboard the USS The Sullivans. He’d watched on the morning of May 11 as two Japanese kamikaze planes, one after the other, smashed into the nearby USS Bunker Hill, setting off a series of explosions and killing 346 sailors (43 bodies were never recovered). George helped pull hundreds of men, some horribly burned, out of the water, and watched with awe as nurses went to work on them.

So on this joyous and unbelievable afternoon, George ran from Rita — the most beautiful girl he’d ever seen — grabbed the first nurse he saw, spun her around, dipped her and kissed her. Rita was just steps behind them, and in the photo she’s beaming.

BTW, USS The Sullivans, DD-537, is a museum ship in Buffalo, NY, https://buffalonavalpark.org/exhibits/uss-the-sullivans/ .

[Wineslob]

DUmmie.......................................GFY