Why we must resist the bullying of Will Pitt and others here.. Grasswire

[CC27]

grasswire (43,400 posts)

Why we must resist the bullying of Will Pitt and others here.


Let's take a look at the account in Christopher Hedges' new book on REBELLION of the persecution of exemplary patriot Thomas Paine for his honest criticisms of government and those who govern.


Paine ... understood that despotic regimes -- and here the corporate state serves as a contemporary example -- make war on reason and rational thought. They circumscribe free speech and free assembly. They marginalize and silence critics. They seek to subjugate all institutions to despotism-- or in our case, corporate power. They use propaganda to rob people of the language to describe their daily reality and discredit those who seek radical change. The goal is to render a population politically alienated. Those who live under despotic regimes, Paine noted, are denied the ability to communicate and discuss in a national forum their most basic concerns and grievances. And this suppression, Paine understood, has consequences. Said Paine: "Let men communicate their thoughts with freedom, and their indignation fly off like a fire spread on the surface; like gunpowder scattered, they kindle, they communicate, but the explosion is neither loud nor dangerous -- keep them under restraint, it is subterranean fire, whose agitation is unseen until it bursts into earthquake or volcano. Finally, Paine understood that war is always the preferred activity of despotic states, for war is "the art of conquering at home."

Paine paid for his honesty. When he returned to England where he wrote The Rights of Man, he was relentlessly persecuted by the state, as he would later be persecuted in France and in America upon his final return. John Keane, in his biography Tom Paine: A Political Life, describes some of what Paine endured as a radical in late-eighteenth-century England:

Government spies tailed him constantly on London's streets, sending back a stream of reports to the Home Secretary's office. Those parts of the press that functioned as government mouthpieces pelted him with abuse. "It is earnestly recommended to Mad Tom" snarled the Times, "that he should embark for France, and there be naturalized into the regular confusion of democracy." Broadsheets containing "intercepted correspondence from Satan to Citizen Paine" pictured him as a three-hearted, fire-breathing monster, named "Tom Stich". Open letters, often identically worded but signed with different pen names, were circulated through taverns and alehouses. "Brother Weavers and Artificers," thundered "a gentleman" to the inhabitants of Manchester and Salford, "Do not let us be humbugged by Mr. Paine, who tells us a great many Truths in his book, in order to shove of his Lies." Dozens of sermons and satires directed at Paine were published, many of them written anonymously for commoners by upper-class foes masquerading as commoners."
*

THIS is why we must resist the bullying of any member of DU and especially of those who speak for liberty, democracy, and good governance.

If we would have defended Thomas Paine then, we must defend Will Pitt now.

Yes, I know that flying monkeys and hooting hyenas will arrive to mock a comparison between Pitt and Paine. I am not equating the importance of the two writers in American literature or their impact on our history.

I AM saying that the ACT OF DEFENDING THEIR SPEECH AND SAFETY IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

If we would have defended Thomas Paine then, we must defend Will Pitt now.

Paine: My poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars, the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive, the rational world is my friend because I am a friend of happiness--when these things can be said, then may that country boast of its constitution and its government.

*Inspired by WAGES OF REBELLION: THE MORAL IMPERATIVE OF REVOLT by Christopher Hedges, Pulitzer Prize winner. 2015 Nation Books

Star Member Cha (163,910 posts)
161. Hear that? You are now ordered to "eat your popcorn".. lol We wouldn't even be having this

conversation if the OP of "the 24 business hour thread" wasn't trying to defend the guy who is supposedly being "bullied" now. But, it's all your fault.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7013022

Did those who were scorned because they didn't buy the big scoop that "dick cheney will be indicted" ever get an apology?

1StrongBlackMan (21,752 posts)
222. I'm missing something here ...


I recall several instances where his prognostications were, not just off; but, flat out wrong. I keep reading about the "mis-step" but must have missed, both, the "mis-step", and the thread calling out the "mis-step." It must have been a big'un, if it led to his exit.


I feel SOOOOO behind the curve! 

Will Pitt they love you! 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027025222

[Chris_]

Is she comparing Will Pitt to Thomas Paine? 

[Carl]

Howler monkeys stop their poo flinging to sit back and watch the primitives.

[franksolich]

Is she comparing Will Pitt to Thomas Paine? 

It's, you know, Judy grasswire.

Of course she is.

[franksolich]

Oh my.

alcibiades_mystery (32,220 posts)    Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:57 PM

1. This should go well

It's grown into a monster thread.

231 replies, 5236 views

[franksolich]

Star Member msanthrope (31,305 posts)    Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:57 PM

3. The person who coined POSUCS with impunity was bullied? Um, no.

Star Member sheshe2 (25,749 posts)    Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:05 PM

9. ^^^This!^^^

msanthrope (31,305 posts)    Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:06 PM

11. Thank you.....Pitt wasn't bullied. He was enabled.

treestar (57,943 posts)   Thu Jul 30, 2015, 07:52 AM
response to Ms Piggy, above

170. So true. Talk about a non-victim.
 
The way the OP is written, at first it appeared to be about we need to resist Will Pitt's bullying. If anyone did the bullying, it was him. 

[USA4ME]

Here, changed a few words.

Paine ... understood that despotic regimes make war on reason and rational thought. They circumscribe free speech and free assembly. They marginalize and silence critics. They seek to subjugate all institutions to despotism. They use propaganda to rob people of the language to describe their daily reality and discredit those who resist radical change. The goal is to render a population politically alienated. Those who live under despotic regimes, Paine noted, are denied the ability to communicate and discuss in a national forum their most basic concerns and grievances without being shouted down, attempts made to shame or mock them, "pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it", or to be isolated by having labels attached to them. And this suppression, Paine understood, has consequences.

Now exactly who does that remind you of?

.

[JakeStyle]

Response to Codeine (Reply #215)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:35 PM

Star Member sabrina 1 (56,181 posts)
249. Lol, 'those of us not blinded by his popularity'. You should ask yourself why

he is popular, while his detractors are few and definitely not. The Cave hates him too, uses these same 'memories' to try to go after him. But they're buried in a small dark corner of the internet still lashing out, still obsessed with DUers like Will, jealous, angry and obsessed.

Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #249)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:33 PM

pintobean (14,653 posts)
298. The Cave hates all of us.

Quit trying to use that as some kind of insult, it's bullshit.

The truth is, the man really enjoyed trying to piss people off. His sig line is very telling - "Anger is a gift". I guess we can say the man was gifted.

Response to pintobean (Reply #298)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:44 PM

Star Member sabrina 1 (56,181 posts)
312. The cave EXISTS because of people like Will Pitt. And Andy.

It's a comparison of the kind of 'material' used by them and by this group.

Doesn't matter if they hate everyone, no one here is using THEIR material to go after anyone else.

The truth is the 'man' was under attack as is everyone, because he went against the grain and went public with it.

But the attacks came as expected back then, from those who had a vested interest in silencing the Left.

You don't like someone, then ignore them, but if you continue to drag up the old Cave material to go after another DUer, then do not expect people not to notice and to comment on it.

So quit trying to silence people, it is what it is.

It's interesting how 'sensitive' his detractors are while claiming HE should be 'able to accept' what they call 'criticism' but when they get a little pushback, seems the don't take their own advice.

Distorting decade old irrelevancies to conduct personal vendettas is going to get the kind of backlash it is getting.

Do it, but don't whine when a majority of the people call you on it. That is the 'generic you'.

Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #312)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:48 PM

pintobean (14,653 posts)
316. You're obsessed with the Cave.

That's exactly what they want. I haven't seen anyone on DU play into their hands as much as you do.

Response to pintobean (Reply #316)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 05:35 PM

Star Member sabrina 1 (56,181 posts)
336. Wrong, when Material I saw on that cesspool years ago re Will Pitt, shows up here

I remember it. I am not the one obsessed with that cesspool, those enabling it as they have done in the past, by USING their anti-DU material, are the ones obsessed.

When the origin of something is clearly identifiable that is called 'RECOGNIZING the source', the word is not 'obsession', it's simply 'recognizing' where something comes from.

Same thing last time we had a big exposure here of this kind of bullying. When I first had the misfortune to learn about that dive. Same material from there being used on another DUer.

I'm willing to bet if someone is brave enough to dive into that cesspool right now they are cheering on the small group here who are attempting to bully WP.

Why don't you go take a look? Too dirty for me frankly. A couple of days of researching the place was enough to last a lifetime.

[GOBUCKS]

Is she comparing Will Pitt to Thomas Paine?

She is indeed comparing the drunken, unemployable Pitt to Thomas Paine, one of the foremost fathers of our country, believed by some to be the actual author of the Declaration of Independence.

Pitt, a hopeless alcoholic, whose only recognized writings outside the DUmp were the hilarious 24-business-hour hoax and a bit of plagiarism from "A Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy", is the DUmp's equivalent to the brilliant patriot Thomas Paine?

I guess they can compare the crawling, puking Pitt to Paine if we can compare the half-bald dwarf nadin to Benjamin Franklin.

[landofconfusion80]

Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #312)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:48 PM

pintobean (14,653 posts)
316. You're obsessed with the Cave.

That's exactly what they want. I haven't seen anyone on DU play into their hands as much as you do.

[98ZJUSMC]

Response to Codeine (Reply #215)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:35 PM

Star Member sabrina 1 (56,181 posts)
249. Lol, 'those of us not blinded by his popularity'. You should ask yourself why he is popular, while his detractors are few and definitely not. The Cave hates him too, uses these same 'memories' to try to go after him. But they're buried in a small dark corner of the internet still lashing out, still obsessed with DUers like Will, jealous, angry and obsessed.[/b]

No, you silly, stupid infant.  WE ARE LAUGHING AT YOU.

Do you understand the differ- err.... never mind.

pintobean (14,653 posts)
298. The Cave hates all of us.

That's true.  More than you could possibly imagine.

[franksolich]

Oh my.

I take it the sabrina primitive doesn't care much for us?

[Carl]

sabrina,you are not even a joke on here,nor are you regarded as a demented idiot like loconuts etc.
You have proved yourself stupider then a human being should be and still be able to feed yourself.

I look at your posts because I know it will be sheer idiocy and laughable.

Don`t flatter yourself,normal people regard you as a special class moron.

[Skul]

DUmpscrunts just don't  get it.
We don't hate them.
They provide us with endless entertainment.
Why would anyone hate a fool?
Silly DUmpmonkeys..

[GOBUCKS]

DUmpscrunts just don't  get it.
We don't hate them.
They provide us with endless entertainment.
Why would anyone hate a fool?
Silly DUmpmonkeys..

Multitasking is simple.

I find it easy to laugh at them and hate them simultaneously.

[Ralph Wiggum]

DUmpscrunts just don't  get it.
We don't hate them.
They provide us with endless entertainment.
Why would anyone hate a fool?
Silly DUmpmonkeys..

That is precisely why I go over there.  The entertainment value & laughter.

[landofconfusion80]

That is precisely why I go over there.  The entertainment value & laughter.

They really are the turds in the punch bowl of life, aren't they?

[SVPete]

Hey, DU folk!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX_y9adQjHM[/youtube]

It's just your ideas. And, speaking for myself, I don't waste my energy in hating people.

[JakeStyle]

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:42 PM

Star Member steve2470 (27,383 posts)
310. I've only seen two people on DU who I truly considered bullied

Love her or hate her or otherwise, I think it's fair to say that ProSense was bullied. She got a large percentage of ad hominem responses to her posts and OP's. If you disagreed with her, that's fair. A lot of the "disagreement" was over the line, imho.

The second was nadinbrzezinski. Again, disagreement is one thing, but I saw a large percentage of ad hominems to her.

WilliamPitt has had some ad hominems thrown his way, but nothing like ProSense or nadinbrzezinski. He's had a lot of intense disagreement. FWIW, the latest OP about "24 business hours" was just dredging up the past, imho. Let sleeping dogs lie, is how I see things. YMMV.

Response to Rex (Reply #326)

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 11:10 AM

Star Member Generic Other (22,543 posts)
399. Sadly, Nadin informed me in PM that she is leaving too

Clearly, she was bullied here constantly. Same as a number of other outspoken DUers. Pitt was hounded as well. As long as he has been on DU, there were people he rubbed the wrong way. Some just clashed with him over issues, but many were not content with simply debating. And Will was capable of giving as good as he got. I doubt he would call himself bullied. More like challenged to fight people throwing mud. And he threw back. Ugly words get thrown about on DU all the time. The disgusting thing is that there are so many keeping score, willing to try and force others to eat their words over and over -- like cows chewing their cabbage twice. It devolves into a kabuki drama acted by pantomime honey badgers who just don't give a shit what they do or say as long as it scores points with the peanut gallery.

That said, I am going to try harder not to rise to the bait and be one of those types of people. When I get passionate and I start banging the keyboard with supersonic force, I will step away and go water the roses. I don't want to ignore people's voices. I also don't want to silence them. I don't want to run them off by being uncivil, especially the people who gave our community a voice, whose contributions too often have become fodder to burn them at the stake. Luckily for me, my words do not "fork such lightning" as Dylan Thomas would say. Even so, this will not stop me speaking my mind.

I give her two weeks max, she won't be able to get by without the attention she gets at the DUmp.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

[GOBUCKS]

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 11:10 AM

Star Member Generic Other (22,543 posts)
399. Sadly, Nadin informed me in PM that she is leaving too

Clearly, she was bullied here constantly.

Pitt's silly GBCW post has had a lot of DUmp attention, so a reminder was in order.

Just in case anyone might have forgotten - it's always all about nadin.

But who is this DUmmy Generic Other? A zillion posts but I've never heard of her.

Of course, nutcase nadin has quit the DUmp as many times as Pitt, so she probably has a huge GBCW ping list.

[JakeStyle]

False alarm, nadin has not left the building.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251484456

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 01:16 PM

nadinbrzezinski (139,931 posts)

On racist meme, and yes racial profiling
Yesterday Villager posted a story I wrote from the event in San Diego. Immediately, some of you went there. This is not a diverse crowd, all white, yada, yada, yada.

Here is the thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=483041

I want to make a point that those of you engaging in this are missing. Myself, and I am just talking for myself, when you make that statement... I know you are not talking for Hillary Clinton. You are talking for yourself. You are leaving the impression on me, that you are willing to use ... well, let's not be polite, racist arguments, and people who make those arguments are likely racist. (And yes, I already have seen coded antisemitism here as well, no surprise there)

But REPUBLICANS ARE RACIST... I hear... yes, yes they are. And also quite a few democrats. Time for some self reflection is in order.

I jumped in, when I did not intend to, because of the very overt and ugly racism that was on display.

For some partisans you are speaking for the campaign. ergo representing Clinton. (Which admittedly is not a good thing either if you are trying to attract people to Clinton's campaign) As far as I am concerned, you are speaking for yourselves. I don't expect you to stop, but if even one of you gets it, and stops with the race baiting, the likely alert, and likely hide will be worth it.

Have a good day.

*edited to add that the OP nadin links to is comedy gold.