Author Topic: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team  (Read 2523 times)

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Offline franksolich

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critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« on: April 20, 2009, 03:46:56 PM »
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/158857-why-the-yankees-dont-win-the-world-series

Oh my.

By the way, rain delay in the New York Yankees-Oakland Athletics game today.

Quote
Why the New York Yankees Don't Win the World Series

During the turn of the century, the Yankees were the premier team in major league baseball, with players who knew how to play, and contribute positively for Joe Torre, as they won four World Series between 1997-2000.

But in 2001, the end of the dynasty became apparent, as key players Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, Chuck Knoblauch, and Paul O'Neill all either retired or moved onto different teams.

And this begun the era for the New York Yankees where they became really big spenders who didn't know how or when to win important games, and this is what happened after 2001 and got us to the situation that we are in today.

So with these key losses, the Yankees signed players such as Jason Giambi to fill the players who departed, but the chemistry became broken on the team without these important players, and that caused them to lose to the Anaheim Angels, who went on to win their first ever World Series.

In 2003, the Yankees picked up Hideki Matsui, who was another superstar, but he was a winner with the Yomiuri Giants in Japan.

The Yankees won a dramatic ALCS with a walk-off home run from Aaron Boone, but they lost to a Florida Marlins team in that World Series that was extremely young, and had enough players who knew what they were doing, which led them to the World Championship.....
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 08:29:09 PM »
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/158857-why-the-yankees-dont-win-the-world-series

Oh my.

By the way, rain delay in the New York Yankees-Oakland Athletics game today.


Coach, for eons, the Atlanta Braves claimed the mantle of "America's Team."  I don't know if they still do.

The Yankees might be the third-best team in the AL East this year.  Right now, they have an inconsistent #1 starter with a history of starting his seasons slow in CC Sabathia; a #2 starter that probably couldn't be the #2 starter for a short-season single-A team right now in Chien-Ming Wang (and someone that the Yankees are going to bypass in his next turn at starting, going directly from Sabathia to the next guy); a #3 that should be the #2 (and would probably be the #1 on a lot of MLB teams) in A.J. Burnett; a #4 that might be the #3 real soon in Andy Pettitte; and  #5 starter that should be the setup guy in the bullpen (Joba Chamberlain).  It the Yankees sent Wang to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre for a start or two, sent Chamberlain to the bullpen, and brought up Phil Hughes (a couple of years ago, Hughes was billed as the Second Coming of Christ when it came to pitching) and Ian Kennedy from S/WB to the Bronx, and made Hughes the #4 and Kennedy the #5 starters, they'd have a good starting rotation.

As it stands now, the toughest division in MLB seems to be the NL East.  The Florida Marlins are leading MLB with 11 wins, but six have come at the expense of the arguably worst team in MLB, the Washington Nationals, who are also in the NL East.  The Philadelphia Phillies didn't have a major injury last year, and their closer just blew a save for the first time since late 2007.  (The no major injury thing can't last.)  The Atlanta Braves revamped their starting rotation in the offseason, but their middle relief is . . . lacking.  The Mets . . . well, let's just say that they suck with runners in scoring position.  25 for 106 so far this year.

As for other teams in other divisions . . . let's say that the Royals have three good starting pitchers this year.  That's a lot more than they've had for a long time.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 02:47:31 AM »
Well, yeah, sure, BlueState, I know prospects aren't that good for the New York Yankees this year.  There's prospects, but not many.

And I have a better chance of winning the Powerball lottery, perhaps, than the Kansas City Royals have of making it to the top.

But I've always been a big believer--a believer because I see it happen all the time--of things such as Time and Chance, the Law of Impermanence, the Chaos Theory of the Universe, the Randomness of Events, the Law of Unanticipated Consequences, Anything Can Happen and Usually Does, &c., &c., &c.

This perhaps explains my utter fascination with richboy playboy Pedro, who on the other hand thinks all things are planned, laid out, conspired, down to the last detail.  This perhaps also explains why richboy playboy Pedro is a loser, and franksolich isn't.

It looks as if the New York Yankees have only a faint tinge of a fragment of a chance, and the Kansas City Royals the chances of a snowball in Hell.

But anything can happen.
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 06:33:43 AM »
If it is an injury laden year for the other teams in the division, then perhaps.   However, the Yankees do not have any prospects -- although if you talk to a Yankee fan  you would think their farm systems is just bursting with them.     

Steinbrenner is Exhibit #A that you cannot create a team by collecting talent.   Torre was the only manager who could manager those prima donas.  Giardi is in way over his head and it shows. 

The truth is that AL teams really have no worries about the Yankee lineup anymore.  They are just another team.   The only thing that separates them from the rest is their fan base -- Red Sox Nation a close second.   However, they keep losing like this in the post season and they will see that dwindle away also.






Offline franksolich

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 12:23:37 PM »
The only thing that separates them from the rest is their fan base -- Red Sox Nation a close second.   However, they keep losing like this in the post season and they will see that dwindle away also.

Madam, I love you, but I beg to differ.

The fan--and "non-fan"--base of the New York Yankees is awesome.

Everybody has heard of the New York Yankees; everybody from a remote shack in the deserts of Arizona, from a minuscule log "cabin" in the woods of Washington, from an ice-covered igloo in the snows of Alaska, from a tarpaper shack buried amidst the magnolia trees in southern Mississippi, from a miner's digs secreted in the bowels of the mountains of Colorado, from a crude raft floating down the river in Kentucky.

Everybody has heard of the New York Yankees, and everybody has an opinion about them, ranging from enthusiastic to Hate-filled.

The Boston Red Sox, on the other hand, well, outside of the New England states, say "Boston Red Sox," and one usually gets a reply, "Boston who?"

The New York Yankees are a national, even an international, phenomenon; the Boston Red Sox strictly a local one.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 12:44:55 PM »
Coach, you're not often wrong, but when you are, you're VERY wrong.

While I wouldn't agree with FL's sentiments about the Sox being a close second, let's look at the other team of which the Yankees were a rival for so many years, "Dem Bums" of Brooklyn, the Dodgers.

If ANYONE is a close second, it's the Dodgers.  In some circles, the Dodgers are in fact looked upon MORE favorably than the Yanks, that of the beloved underdog.

Which then takes me to my point about the Sox.  For nearly 90 years, they were the other underdog, the divisional rival who endured while the Yankees lapped up the limelight.  Go into any AL ballpark even today where the Sox are playing, and there is a sizeable contingent of Red Sox Nation present.  It's said that in the six states of NE where the Sox have an overwhelming fan presence, the first words a child learns are not, "Momma" or "Daddy", but rather, "Yankees suck."

As much as it pains me to defend them, the Sox DO have a sizeable fan base, and not just around New England.  However, they're not second to the Yankees.  That "honor", if one could call it that, belongs to the Dodgers.  The Sox are certainly up there, though, with the likes of the Yanks, Dodgers, and Cubbies.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 12:47:25 PM by NHSparky »
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Offline franksolich

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 01:03:41 PM »
Coach, you're not often wrong, but when you are, you're VERY wrong.

Yeah, sure, that possibility exists, of franksolich being wrong, and in fact franksolich is more often wrong than right, so no big deal, sir.

But I must describe a certain trick to determine the general public's familiarity with professional baseball teams.

Outside of New England, mention the "Boston White Sox."

One doesn't get many corrections.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 01:13:26 PM »
Yeah, sure, that possibility exists, of franksolich being wrong, and in fact franksolich is more often wrong than right, so no big deal, sir.

But I must describe a certain trick to determine the general public's familiarity with professional baseball teams.

Outside of New England, mention the "Boston White Sox."

One doesn't get many corrections.

Maybe in your world.  But if you say, "Red Sox", or just, "Sox", pretty much everyone knows of which you speak.  I say that because far more MLB fans identify or are fans of the Red Sox. 

And the psychological trickery doesn't work.  Then again, many of the people who think the Sox of Boston are the White Sox are mouth-breathing Obots.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline franksolich

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 02:01:14 PM »
Uh, I suspect the Chicago White Sox have quite a following too.

And the Cincinnati Reds, formerly the Red Stockings.

And so the Boston Red Sox are inevitably doomed to get mixed up, in the public mind, with Chicago and Cincinnati, to one degree or another.

No one, but no one, mixes up the New York Yankees with another team.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 02:22:40 PM »
Uh, I suspect the Chicago White Sox have quite a following too.

And the Cincinnati Reds, formerly the Red Stockings.

And so the Boston Red Sox are inevitably doomed to get mixed up, in the public mind, with Chicago and Cincinnati, to one degree or another.

No one, but no one, mixes up the New York Yankees with another team.

Actually, outside the Midwest/Rust Belt, not so much.

I wish I could find it, and I know it exists on the Web somewhere, but there was a study done of each team in baseball, and how much average attendance increased or decreased based on the visiting opponents.

The teams which generated the largest increases?  The Yankees, the Dodgers, and the Red Sox.

And then there's this little gem from 2005:

LINK

And finally, here's a starting point for you:

LINK
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline formerlurker

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 02:53:02 PM »
Quote
New York's baseball clubs remain the most valuable in the big leagues, as both the Yankees and Mets bid farewell to their current stadiums in 2008, according to annual estimates conducted by Forbes magazine.
The Yankees' value increased to $1.306 billion over the past year, a rise of nine percent, while the Mets were second at $824 million, the magazine said Wednesday. The Red Sox were third at $816 million.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080417&content_id=2540196&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy&partnered=rss_nyy


Most attendance on road games:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?sort=away_avg&year=2008&seasonType=2

Quote
Regional Ratings:
Locally, Boston continued to show the power of Red Sox Nation, with a 10.1 HH AA% on NESN (New England Sports Network), the highest average local rating on a regional sports network of any MLB team.   Additionally, the national pastime continues to be as strong as ever in America’s Heartland with the St. Louis Cardinals (7.9), Minnesota Twins (7.2), Milwaukee Brewers (7.0), and Cincinnati Reds (6.8) following as the next highest rated markets.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/tag/boston-red-sox/


Quote
The proxy I use to gauge drawing power is stadium attendance of teams when they are the road team*. That link shows pretty clearly that “Red Sox Nation” is uh…a national phenomenon. The Red Sox outdrew even the Yankees (who came in second) on the road. By contrast, the “big market” LA Angels (of Anaheim) were 23rd out of 30 teams - the Rockies did better. They were #11. Not much love for the Indians on the road though, Cleveland was #27.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2007/10/20/red-sox-help-foxs-cause/1373



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Offline formerlurker

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 02:55:14 PM »
Outside of New England, mention the "Boston White Sox."

One doesn't get many corrections.

I have lived outside of NE for most of my adult life.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

If you don't know who the Boston Red Sox, or the difference between the Red and White Sox, then you sir are no fan of Major League Baseball.


Offline franksolich

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 04:57:56 PM »
I have lived outside of NE for most of my adult life.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

If you don't know who the Boston Red Sox, or the difference between the Red and White Sox, then you sir are no fan of Major League Baseball.

Now, madam, don't get too upset over this.

I have NEVER said the Boston Red Sox are NOT a good baseball team, with a colorful history.

My late brothers were all baseball fanatics--not just fans, but fanatics--but my interest is purely in the cultural and sociological characteristics of baseball upon the public, or popular, perception.

It was a curiosity sparked during the late 1970s, early 1980s, when, out of thin air, the Atlanta Braves suddenly became the most popular baseball team in the Upper Great Plains states.  Everybody knew everything about the Atlanta Braves.

Even though young at the time, this appeal of the Atlanta Braves mystified me greatly, because nobody had paid attention to the Atlanta Braves before.  Diehard baseball fans who actually attended games usually were fans of the Kansas City Royals or Chicago White Sox.  Baseball permeated the radio airwaves, and the most interest seemed to be with the New York Yankees, the Lost Angeles Dodgers, the St. Louis Cardinals.

Another reason that made this popularity of the Atlanta Braves mystifying was that, historically, the Upper Great Plains states have never had much commercial, financial, or cultural ties with the Deep South.

Then I finally figured it out.  The late 1970s, early 1980s, was when cable television began booming in the Upper Great Plains states, and that television station in Atlanta, owned by Jane Fonda's ex-husband, rode in on the crest of that wave.  Every cable supplier carried that Atlanta station, and that Atlanta station carried the games of the Atlanta Braves, non-stop.

It got pretty boring, always the Atlanta Braves.

But then about ten years later, when cable television had further expanded, interest in the Atlanta Braves, at least in the Upper Great Plains states, dropped like a lead ball.  My intuition had been correct; the Atlanta Braves were "popular" not because they were good (which they sometimes were, sometimes weren't), but simply because they were "marketed."

Nowadays, it's back to normal; out of 1.5 million people in Nebraska, one would be hard-pressed to find more than six, or more than half a dozen, fans of the Atlanta Braves.  Everybody's back to being fans of traditional baseball powers.

I lived for a couple of years in Allentown, Pennsylvania, and then in Fairlawn, New Jersey, which are reasonably close to Boston, but to tell you the truth, madam, and I don't mean this meanly, I don't ever recall meeting a single baseball fan or expert from either city, who paid much attention to the Boston Red Sox, or who was more than just dimly, distantly, aware there was such a team.

This is NOT to say the Boston Red Sox are NOT a good team, with lots of color and history in them.  This is however to say that as a national phenomenon, while the Boston Red Sox have influenced popular culture more than, say, the Minnesota Twins or the Kansas City Royals, the Boston Red Sox are far from being as well-known nationally, and as widely liked and disliked, as the New York Yankees.
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: critic being a pessimist about prospects for America's team
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 05:36:17 PM »
I lived for a couple of years in Allentown, Pennsylvania, and then in Fairlawn, New Jersey, which are reasonably close to Boston, but to tell you the truth, madam, and I don't mean this meanly, I don't ever recall meeting a single baseball fan or expert from either city, who paid much attention to the Boston Red Sox, or who was more than just dimly, distantly, aware there was such a team.

Not even buying it for a nanosecond.   They live, eat and breath baseball -- East Coast baseball.   I lived in Philly and in the Hamptons of NY -- no way, no how am I buying what you are selling.   They not only know the Boston Red Sox, but could pick out a Red Sox cap out of a crowd of a 1,000.    That is no exaggeration. 

NY hates Boston, and the sentiments are returned to all of NY's teams.