The Conservative Cave
The Bar => Sports => Topic started by: Ralph Wiggum on January 05, 2011, 09:21:35 AM
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Here's the ballot:
Roberto Alomar, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Harold Baines, Bert Blyleven, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Lenny Harris, Bobby Higginson, Charles Johnson, Barry Larkin, Al Leiter, Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Raul Mondesi, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Dave Parker, Tim Raines, Kirk Rueter, Benito Santiago, Lee Smith, B.J. Surhoff, Alan Trammell and Larry Walker.
http://baseballhall.org/news/voting-news/final-countdown
If I were voting...
Roberto Alomar
Jeff Bagwell
Bert Blyleven
Kevin Brown
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
:popcorn:
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Blyleven will get snubbed again. I think Olerud will eventually make it with his Blue Jays achievements.
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Blyleven will get snubbed again. I think Olerud will eventually make it with his Blue Jays achievements.
Blyleven & Alomar will get in today. I'll even give you a Will Pitt "BANK IT". :-)
Both were within 8 votes of making it last year. Every player who has ever received 70% of the vote (75% needed) eventually got in, almost all the following year.
Olerud won't ever make it. To me, he's in the Mattingly/McGriff group that just belong in the Hall of Very Good.
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Olerud won't ever make it. To me, he's in the Mattingly/McGriff group that just belong in the Hall of Very Good.
Yes, but these voters mostly say they won't vote in the steroid suspects. That propels him past at least 5 of the listed and he was better/more consistant than most of the rest.
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Yes, but these voters mostly say they won't vote in the steroid suspects. That propels him past at least 5 of the listed and he was better/more consistant than most of the rest.
It'll be interesting to see how the votes end up not just this year but as the "steroid era" guys become eligible.
To me, Bagwell is the guy who will get shafted this year. There's no evidence of any kind that he ever used PED's, just kind of an under the radar whisper out there. I think he's one of the Top 10 1B's of all time.
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Trammell was a principal in Detroit's 1984 season and World Series blowout. He also did very well throughout his career.
AFAIK, no evidence of PEDs and basically, was a hard-working, effective shortstop. He and Lou Whitaker were a terrific combo.
But I dunno. I don't follow baseball all that closely.
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Blyleven & Alomar will get in today. I'll even give you a Will Pitt "BANK IT". :-)
I was correct. :tongue:
Roberto Alomar, Bert Blyleven in Hall (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof11/news/story?id=5991808)
Roberto Alomar and Bert Blyleven have been elected to baseball's Hall of Fame.
Alomar and Blyleven were chosen Wednesday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America after narrow misses last year.
Alomar was picked on 90 percent of the ballots. He was a 12-time All-Star and 10-time Gold Glove winner at second base.
Blyleven was listed on more than 79 percent of the ballots, above the 75 percent required for election. He won 287 games and ranks fifth on the career strikeout list.
Sluggers Rafael Palmeiro, Jeff Bagwell and Mark McGwire all fell below the 50 percent mark.
The induction ceremony will be held on July 24 in Cooperstown.
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Blyleven finally got in after many years of rejection. Bagwell has apparently been cast among the steriod suspects by the HoF voters.
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Blyleven finally got in after many years of rejection. Bagwell has apparently been cast among the steriod suspects by the HoF voters.
The story keeps updating as MLB and the HOF announce the totals. Here is the latest:
Palmeiro was picked on just 11 percent of the ballots. Bagwell was selected on 41 percent of ballots while McGwire was at 19 percent.
:mental: :banghead: :bs:
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I can't ****ing believe Ron Santo isn't even on the *******ed ballot...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf3uTJ1k-h0[/youtube]
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I can't ****ing believe Ron Santo isn't even on the *******ed ballot...
It's a shame, but he'll be up later this year for the latest iteration of the Veterans Committee. He may get in now that he died, even though he said he wouldn't want to after his death.
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It's a shame, but he'll be up later this year for the latest iteration of the Veterans Committee. He may get in now that he died, even though he said he wouldn't want to after his death.
I had forgotten about the Veteran's Committee, Ralph - thanks for the reminder.
And yeah, I know he said he wouldn't want to after his death, but for those of us who had the infinite pleasure of watching him play, listening to him on WGN with Pat Hughes, or even laughing at his lighter moments on the "Pat & Ron Highlight Reel" on Nick DiGilio's [sic?] show, we'd be exceedingly proud to see him so enshrined.
I'll never forget listening to him call Kerry Wood's historic 20+ strikeout game against Houston. :-)
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Still no Pete Rose?
Then it's still bullshit.
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Still no Pete Rose?
H5. Period. Nothing more need be said.
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Still no Pete Rose?
Then it's still bullshit.
Asking Selig to stop being an assclown is like trying to push back the tides.
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I had forgotten about the Veteran's Committee, Ralph - thanks for the reminder.
And yeah, I know he said he wouldn't want to after his death, but for those of us who had the infinite pleasure of watching him play, listening to him on WGN with Pat Hughes, or even laughing at his lighter moments on the "Pat & Ron Highlight Reel" on Nick DiGilio's [sic?] show, we'd be exceedingly proud to see him so enshrined.
I'll never forget listening to him call Kerry Wood's historic 20+ strikeout game against Houston. :-)
My personal favorite was in the '98 regular season pennant race and Santo screamed "OH NO!" repeatedly when Brant Brown dropped a fly ball in left field.
He should have been in a long time ago. I'm very sorry that he didn't live to see it, but it'll be a great honor for his family and fans.
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Here's how the voting went today:
Roberto Alomar 523 90.0
Bert Blyleven 463 79.7
Barry Larkin 361 62.1
Jack Morris 311 53.5
Lee Smith 263 45.3
Jeff Bagwell 242 41.7
Tim Raines 218 37.5
Edgar Martinez 191 32.9
Alan Trammell 141 24.3
Larry Walker 118 20.3
Mark McGwire 115 19.8
Fred McGriff 104 17.9
Dave Parker 89 15.3
Don Mattingly 79 13.6
Dale Murphy 73 12.6
Rafael Palmeiro 64 11.0
Others receiving votes: Juan Gonzalez 30, Harold Baines 28, John Franco 27, Kevin Brown 12, Tino Martinez 6, Marquis Grissom 4, Al Leiter 4, John Olerud 4, B.J. Surhoff 2, Bret Boone 1, Benito Santiago 1
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Larkin should make it. He spent most of his career playing in the cellar, though.
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Larkin should make it. He spent most of his career playing in the cellar, though.
I think it was only his second year on the ballot. At this voting pace, he most likely will make it.
I kind of waver on him, sometimes I lean that he should be in...I just don't know for sure. The HOF certainly wouldn't be lessened by having Larkin in.
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I can't ****ing believe Ron Santo isn't even on the *******ed ballot...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf3uTJ1k-h0[/youtube]
I've had "This Old Cub" since it first came out and still haven't watched it. I even ripped a couple of copies for people.
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Still no Pete Rose?
Then it's still bullshit.
Pretty much. Nice to see that a guy can't get into the hall after doing jail time and apologizing for a LEGAL activity, but a guy who spits in the face of an umpire? No biggie. (ETA: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
My respect for baseball slipped another notch. And no, I don't think you should be considered for the HOF solely as a DH, either.
If you do, then you're an idiot. Try to defend your position. Just try. (ETA: That's not meant to call out any single poster, just any mouth-breathers that think the DH position has any relevance or that anyone gives a shit anymore. It's just a way for cripples and has-beens to milk out a couple more years than they should have/would have otherwise.)
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Halls are all political and don't mean shit to me. Case in point, Rush isn't in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but Run f'n DMC is. Figure that one out.
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Pretty much. Nice to see that a guy can't get into the hall after doing jail time and apologizing for a LEGAL activity, but a guy who spits in the face of an umpire? No biggie. (ETA: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
My respect for baseball slipped another notch. And no, I don't think you should be considered for the HOF solely as a DH, either.
If you do, then you're an idiot. Try to defend your position. Just try.
Edgar Martinez was one of the best hitters I've seen. However, I have a hard time supporting him since he almost exclusively "played" as DH.
He has 2055 games played, and according to Baseball-Reference, only 564 at 3B and 28 at 1B. Most of which were early in his career.
I tend to cut him some slack because he was very unlucky in the regard that the Mariners didn't make him a regular until his age 27 season. Which is in the range of a player's prime (27 to 29 is generally regarded in stat-circles as a hitter's prime).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martied01.shtml
If you look at the 10 most comparable players to Martinez, none are or will be in the HOF:
Todd Helton (912)
Will Clark (902)
John Olerud (885)
Moises Alou (879)
Bobby Abreu (874)
Bernie Williams (860)
Bob Johnson (857)
Magglio Ordonez (855)
Paul O'Neill (852)
Ellis Burks (850)
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Oh, and Ray Guy isn't in the NFL Hall of Fame. Again, a bunch of bunk.
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Oh, and Ray Guy isn't in the NFL Hall of Fame. Again, a bunch of bunk.
Because he's a So. Miss guy, or because that batshit crazy old bastard drafted him number 1 back in the day?
I kid, I kid--yeah, there's basically a problem with a player who's on the All-NFL 75th anniversary team and not in Canton. Even as a Broncos fan, I have to agree that ain't right.
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Edgar Martinez was one of the best hitters I've seen. However, I have a hard time supporting him since he almost exclusively "played" as DH.
He has 2055 games played, and according to Baseball-Reference, only 564 at 3B and 28 at 1B. Most of which were early in his career.
I tend to cut him some slack because he was very unlucky in the regard that the Mariners didn't make him a regular until his age 27 season. Which is in the range of a player's prime (27 to 29 is generally regarded in stat-circles as a hitter's prime).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martied01.shtml
If you look at the 10 most comparable players to Martinez, none are or will be in the HOF:
Todd Helton (912)
Will Clark (902)
John Olerud (885)
Moises Alou (879)
Bobby Abreu (874)
Bernie Williams (860)
Bob Johnson (857)
Magglio Ordonez (855)
Paul O'Neill (852)
Ellis Burks (850)
If baseball were ONLY about hitting, I might give a shit. I feel the same way about all guys who hung on the roster solely for their swinging skills (some well after their bats fell silent too).
Frankly, if you played DH for a significant (more than, say, 1/3) portion of your career and you don't have WELL over 550-600 HR's, don't even THINK about getting into Cooperstown.
That means that Jr would be in, but that's about it. Maybe Thome if he gets picked up by someone this year.
That also means that, IMO, the following should NOT make it in, and I challenge anyone here to tell me that anyone I list DOES deserve inclusion into the hall:
Rafael Palmeiro (roids more than anything else)
David Ortiz (numbers and roids)
Fred McGriff
Frank Thomas
anyone else you think should or shouldn't be on this list, please let me know.
JMO.
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Because he's a So. Miss guy, or because that batshit crazy old bastard drafted him number 1 back in the day?
I kid, I kid--yeah, there's basically a problem with a player who's on the All-NFL 75th anniversary team and not in Canton. Even as a Broncos fan, I have to agree that ain't right.
How about the Rush out, Run DMC in BS?
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How about the Rush out, Run DMC in BS?
That's because Geddy Lee didn't get shot while in a recording studio.
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If baseball were ONLY about hitting, I might give a shit. I feel the same way about all guys who hung on the roster solely for their swinging skills (some well after their bats fell silent too).
Frankly, if you played DH for a significant (more than, say, 1/3) portion of your career and you don't have WELL over 550-600 HR's, don't even THINK about getting into Cooperstown.
That means that Jr would be in, but that's about it. Maybe Thome if he gets picked up by someone this year.
That also means that, IMO, the following should NOT make it in, and I challenge anyone here to tell me that anyone I list DOES deserve inclusion into the hall:
Rafael Palmeiro (roids more than anything else)
David Ortiz (numbers and roids)
Fred McGriff
Frank Thomas
anyone else you think should or shouldn't be on this list, please let me know.
JMO.
You know Frank Thomas is going in. It's' pointless to bemoan the fact. Larkin should have gone in already, but I'm confident it will happen next year.
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And Alomar's spitting incident was hardly the most aggregious offense by a Hall of famer.
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How about the Rush out, Run DMC in BS?
Because there's no accounting for taste. Chicago should be in the HOF too.
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Because there's no accounting for taste. Chicago should be in the HOF too.
Like hell. Frankly, the wrong singer blew his head off. Peter Cetera sucks. That's like saying Van Halen without David Lee Roth was just as good as when he was with the band.
Back O/T, yeah, maybe Frank Thomas, but you sure as hell can't tell me Ortiz belongs. Manny maybe, but only if he gets rid of the "bitch tits" first.
I think you're going to have a hard time justifying anyone in the "Steroids Era" belongs in the hall.
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Like hell. Frankly, the wrong singer blew his head off. Peter Cetera sucks. That's like saying Van Halen without David Lee Roth was just as good as when he was with the band.
Back O/T, yeah, maybe Frank Thomas, but you sure as hell can't tell me Ortiz belongs. Manny maybe, but only if he gets rid of the "bitch tits" first.
I think you're going to have a hard time justifying anyone in the "Steroids Era" belongs in the hall.
Oh no... I don't believe Ortiz rates it. And obviously none of the steroid guys. Thomas played more DH than 1st throughout his career, but 970 games at first counts for something. Career DH's are, in my opinion, just a baby-step above steroid users. They provide artificially inflated numbers by not playing the whole game.
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And don't player hate on Chicago. Tho you're right... Terry Kath was blatantly superior.