DR. DEATH DEAD: Kevorkian Dies at Age 83...

[Tucker]

The lovely thing about choice is, that if you don't *WANT* to do X, you don't have too.  But if you do want to do X, you have the freedom to do so.   Freedom is a pretty important piece in our moral standards, as a country, yes?

Freedom or coercion?

[Eupher]

Being totally honest here, I have to say that in the spirit of personal freedom, I should have the right to off myself given certain conditions:

1.  That I suffer from a debilitating, progressive, chronic, and eventually fatal disease.
2.  That said disease has been confirmed on multiple levels by competent, independent, and unbiased medical authority.
3.  That prolonging my life reduces the quality of that life, and makes it increasingly difficult and unsustainable for my family.

Now, all that said, the dicey part is figuring out the "when". And obviously, who.

As I recall, Switzerland offers a facility where assisted suicide is performed. Those people make it a BUSINESS of offing people, so I question those kinds of places for obvious reasons.

A self-administered bullet in the head is messy and traumatic for the person who finds the body. Not good.

Poisoning - also not good, because it isn't always 100% effective.

There are several other options, all of which have their disadvantages.

But apart from the gift of life from God, I do believe that when things become untenable, it makes no sense to prolong my own life. That is a personal decision that I can and should be able to make after dutiful, protracted, and honest discussion with those closest to me.

This is why I have a "do not resuscitate" order in my revocable trust.

There is no way in hell I want to finish out this thing called life in a coma, or as a vegetable. Just let me go.

[rubliw]

Being totally honest here, I have to say that in the spirit of personal freedom, I should have the right to off myself given certain conditions:

1.  That I suffer from a debilitating, progressive, chronic, and eventually fatal disease.
2.  That said disease has been confirmed on multiple levels by competent, independent, and unbiased medical authority.
3.  That prolonging my life reduces the quality of that life, and makes it increasingly difficult and unsustainable for my family.

Now, all that said, the dicey part is figuring out the "when". And obviously, who.

As I recall, Switzerland offers a facility where assisted suicide is performed. Those people make it a BUSINESS of offing people, so I question those kinds of places for obvious reasons.

A self-administered bullet in the head is messy and traumatic for the person who finds the body. Not good.

Poisoning - also not good, because it isn't always 100% effective.

There are several other options, all of which have their disadvantages.

But apart from the gift of life from God, I do believe that when things become untenable, it makes no sense to prolong my own life. That is a personal decision that I can and should be able to make after dutiful, protracted, and honest discussion with those closest to me.

This is why I have a "do not resuscitate" order in my revocable trust.

There is no way in hell I want to finish out this thing called life in a coma, or as a vegetable. Just let me go.

Well, what the hell?!  I actually agree with all of that.  Damn.

We obviously don't want  a world where people are pressured or forced into choosing death against their desires, so none of this should be taken lightly... but in the end, I do believe it can be the right and respectable choice to end ones life, given the conditions you mention above.

[Eupher]

Well, what the hell?!  I actually agree with all of that.  Damn.

We obviously don't want  a world where people are pressured or forced into choosing death against their desires, so none of this should be taken lightly... but in the end, I do believe it can be the right and respectable choice to end ones life, given the conditions you mention above.

Don't let it go to your head, wilbur. We're so far apart on the other issues there's absolutely no common ground at all.

The problem I have with "personal freedoms" like this, is that many people who are not capable of thinking rationally and objectively in this area (Christ, probably most of us who might be confronted with the conditions I mentioned above) become susceptible to chicanery, fraud, and just plain whackos like Kevorkian who prey on such people. To avoid those types of things, the government (  ) feels compelled to "protect" its citizens from those Kevorkian-types, and then we start down that slippery slope of regulation, rules, policies, laws, and the inevitable violations of those points of law, and in the end, the only people who win are the lawyers and the politicians who continually prove their "value" by reinventing and tweaking the entire program to close the loopholes and otherwise make the whole system more "palatable."

Gag me with a ****ing spoon, wilbur. The government is no more competent of making those types of decisions than the person who can't think rationally to begin with.

[Splashdown]

Sorry. That slope is too slippery for me. What happens when others start making that "quality of life" decision?

[Eupher]

Sorry. That slope is too slippery for me. What happens when others start making that "quality of life" decision?

Yeah. I know. But the personal freedom should not (but probably cannot for the reasons already articulated) be abridged.

[Tucker]

All life is sacred. Both pre birth or in the end stages.

I'm sure Jesus would have preferred an end without suffering. His path was chosen, as is ours. I think it's something we have to endure.

[Mr Mannn]

Sorry. That slope is too slippery for me. What happens when others start making that "quality of life" decision?

Dr Death used individual choice to break the ice with Euthanasia. But by using ASSISTED suicide he also set a precedent and opened the floodgates for others to decide the time you will die. Its because of pioneers like Dr Death that Obamacare DENIES coverage to the elderly and the handicapped. If Obamacare becomes law in 2014, I do not want to check into an American hospital.

The agenda of Dr Death was far more than an individual choosing death in a time of suffering.

[rubliw]

All life is sacred. Both pre birth or in the end stages.

I'm sure Jesus would have preferred an end without suffering. His path was chosen, as is ours. I think it's something we have to endure.

Well that's nice and all, but currently, I don't recognize your authority to make that choice for me (or for anyone else).

[Tucker]

Well that's nice and all, but currently, I don't recognize your authority to make that choice for me (or for anyone else).

I don't recall saying that I would.

If I had a say so when liberals die, it would be ..........today.

[dandi]

Well that's nice and all, but currently, I don't recognize your authority to make that choice for me (or for anyone else).

I don't think his comment was directed at you, Nazi bitch boy.

[Hella Jeff]

Sorry. That slope is too slippery for me. What happens when others start making that "quality of life" decision?

So what your saying is, giving me the freedom to do something TO MYSELF is a slippery slope to giving someone else the ability to do this to me against my will.

What?

[Eupher]

So what your saying is, giving me the freedom to do something TO MYSELF is a slippery slope to giving someone else the ability to do this to me against my will.

What?

The Catholic Church isn't too fond of the idea, but apart from that you can still put a bullet in your own head if you want to. That is, you can legally own a gun (if you're not a felon), are old enough to purchase it and ammo for it, and blow your brains out.

No problem.

Not that that's any kind of invitation, of course.  

[Splashdown]

So what your saying is, giving me the freedom to do something TO MYSELF is a slippery slope to giving someone else the ability to do this to me against my will.

What?

Kevorkian didn't do it TO HIMSELF, jackass. He killed other people and called it mercy.

And my response was to Eupher's post.

[Chris_]

Because it was, ya know, mercy. Any of y'all ever watched someone you love die very, very slowly of a painful disease? I have. And I would always, always respect her right to choose her own death. Death with dignity instead of agony.

[Splashdown]

Because it was, ya know, mercy. Any of y'all ever watched someone you love die very, very slowly of a painful disease? I have. And I would always, always respect her right to choose her own death. Death with dignity instead of agony.

Of course I have.



You call killing a loved one mercy. I (and some courts) call it murder. Tomato, to-mah-to, I guess.

[Chris_]

Of course I have.



You call killing a loved one mercy. I (and some courts) call it murder. Tomato, to-mah-to, I guess.

I didn't make that choice. She did, and I had no part in making it happen.

[rich_t]

Of course I have.



You call killing a loved one mercy. I (and some courts) call it murder. Tomato, to-mah-to, I guess.

Dr. Kevorkian only assisted in the suicide of those that consented did he not?  Or were family members allowed to make the choice for the person dying?  I never followed it all that closely.

Personally, I feel the same way as Eupher (post 26) on this issue.

[Splashdown]

I didn't make that choice. She did, and I had no part in making it happen.

1. Sorry for your loss. It's always difficult to lose a loved one.

2. What happens when a patient can't speak for him/herself? No living will. Do we get to make the call when life ends? There's that slippery slope we get to. 

I'm pro-life. We don't get to say when life begins or ends.

[Tucker]

Because it was, ya know, mercy. Any of y'all ever watched someone you love die very, very slowly of a painful disease? I have. And I would always, always respect her right to choose her own death. Death with dignity instead of agony.

Yes I have. My father was in ICU and then hospice the last 90 days of his life. There were only two days I didn't visit him.

[Splashdown]

...I'm not a priest, but I have several friends in that line of work.

In my younger and more prideful days, I was in favor of Euthanasia. Then a buddy asked me this question. Who's the "mercy" killing really for? The victim, or us?

I tried for a witty retort, but had none. That one took a bit of soul searching. I wouldn't ever presume to answer that question for anyone else.

[Hella Jeff]

Kevorkian didn't do it TO HIMSELF, jackass. He killed other people and called it mercy.

And my response was to Eupher's post.

He killed other people who WANTED to be killed. He even turned down people who he didnt think were in the right state of mind to make the decision.

[Splashdown]

We agree. he killed people.


Q.E.D.

[rich_t]

We agree. he killed people.


Q.E.D.

He provided the means for others to kill themselves did he not?

I'm honestly asking.  Didn't he merely provide the "drugs" and the machine that the dying person hit the button on?

[Tucker]

He provided the means for others to kill themselves did he not?

I'm honestly asking.  Didn't he merely provide the "drugs" and the machine that the dying person hit the button on?

No. He actively pushed the switch on at least two. He claimed they were too weak to do it them self.