"Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State

[Rebel]

I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.

Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

It's his way of excusing, by marginalization, the people to which he probably agrees.

[ReardenSteel]

I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.

Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

It's his way of excusing, by marginalization, the people to which he probably agrees.

No doubt. I happen to think that kind of dismissive attitude is more dangerous and ignorent than any reaction I've read on the thread so far.

On edit:

The other reactions I've read so far, IMO are not dangerous or ignorent btw. Poor phrasiology, lol. "Treating them like terrorist" is the right solution and, luckily enough, the solution we are correctly pursuing. 

[The Night Owl]

Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

Well, I'm glad someone noticed my awesome comment, but I have no idea what you're trying to say about it.

[Rebel]

Well, I'm glad someone noticed my awesome comment, but I have no idea what you're trying to say about it.

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

[ReardenSteel]

Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

Well, I'm glad someone noticed my awesome comment, but I have no idea what you're trying to say about it.

I belive terrorist belong in jail and murdering terrorist deserve death. While shooting an arsonist "on site" is extreme and IMO wrong, treating them like children is more extreme and more immoral.

[Wineslob]

These idiots go around "spiking"(they drive huge nails into trees) trees in the Pacfic Northwest in attempts to injure loggers/lumber workers. Unfortuately it works, because "spiked" logs have caused the huge saw blades (in ripsaws used to split the in-coming logs into planks) to break in lumber mills and spit out of the machines and hitting the workers. Think of a band saw blade with huge teeth 6" wide and 30+ ft long flying out and bouncing around the mill.
These jackasses have stated that they will kill people for their agenda.
I hope the FBI finds them and strings them up by the balls.

[Rebel]

These idiots go around "spiking"(they drive huge nails into trees) trees in the Pacfic Northwest in attempts to injure loggers/lumber workers. Unfortuately it works, because "spiked" logs have caused the huge saw blades (in ripsaws used to split the in-coming logs into planks) to break in lumber mills and spit out of the machines and hitting the workers. Think of a band saw blade with huge teeth 6" wide and 30+ ft long flying out and bouncing around the mill.
These jackasses have stated that they will kill people for their agenda.
I hope the FBI finds them and strings them up by the balls.

^ That seem childish to you, TNO?

[The Night Owl]

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.

[ReardenSteel]

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.

They are naive because they are against development qua development. And dangerous because they will violate the rights of anyone who believes otherwise and use force against them.

[Lauri]

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.

these kids arent 'potentialy dangerous' .. they are far, far beyond that and have been for years. and this wasnt about land development; it was because the ELF idiots thought the houses were supposed to "built green" with energy saving stuff in them.

i'd like to see where these kids actually live. my bet is, most of their parents are middle to upper middle income and they have been under the care of auspicious professors.

[Lacarnut]

I belive terrorist belong in jail and murdering terrorist deserve death. While shooting an arsonist "on site" is extreme and IMO wrong, treating them like children is more extreme and more immoral.


[/quote]

Let's put it this way; if someone tried to burn my house down, the coroner would be inspecting 9 bullet holes in them.

[Ptarmigan]

If they hate pollution, than why burn down houses? That releases a lot of pollution. Anyways, no one died. The next arson by ELF could result in death. They should be treated like Al-Qaeda. Sadly, ACC is right, ELF has no central group, which makes it hard to infiltrate and destroy. I am a little surprised they left a sign at the crime scene.

[Lauri]

If they hate pollution, than why burn down houses? That releases a lot of pollution. Anyways, no one died. The next arson by ELF could result in death. They should be treated like Al-Qaeda. Sadly, ACC is right, ELF has no central group, which makes it hard to infiltrate and destroy. I am a little surprised they left a sign at the crime scene.

they always leave a note. and many of them have actually been prosecuted. youre correct that they arent a formed unit, but some of them are in prison and some are awaiting trial.

the kids who did this arson today in Woodinville will most likely be caught.. but it wont be national news, it will be more local.

[Ptarmigan]

they always leave a note. and many of them have actually been prosecuted. youre correct that they arent a formed unit, but some of them are in prison and some are awaiting trial.

the kids who did this arson today in Woodinville will most likely be caught.. but it wont be national news, it will be more local.

Oh okay. Didn't think they did. Good thing some are in prison or awaiting trial.

[Lauri]

Greta has the story on her show, top of the hour right now..

[ReardenSteel]

Lacarnut-
Let's put it this way; if someone tried to burn my house down, the coroner would be inspecting 9 bullet holes in them.

That's fine and good. I agree with that in fact. Sorry for the confusion, I read it as these guys should be shot on site after the fact. It's moral to protect your life and property. 

- Edited for messed up quote section

[Lauri]

Brianna Waters is on trial right now for being an ELF lookout during the bombing of a UW lab... just heard that bit on Greta's show.

Ms. Waters tried to have the case thrown out after news broke today of the latest arson. That was denied.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004136283_uwarson21m.html

Arson suspect facing trial
By Hal Bernton

Seattle Times staff reporter

In the predawn hours of May 21, 2001, Briana Waters says, she was nowhere near the University of Washington campus in Seattle and was most likely asleep in Olympia.

Federal prosecutors say Waters served as a lookout that morning for a five-person Earth Liberation Front team that set fire to the UW's Center for Urban Horticulture.

Next month, in a federal courtroom in Tacoma, the 32-year-old violin teacher is scheduled to face trial for her alleged role in an attack that caused more than $1.5 million in damage to the university's building.

Waters faces charges of conspiracy, arson and use of a destructive device in a crime of violence. If convicted on all counts, she faces a mandatory prison sentence of 35 years.

It would be the first trial for any of the 18 men and women indicted on a charge of their alleged involvement in a militant Pacific Northwest underground that carried out more than a dozen acts of arson and sabotage against targets deemed a threat to the environment or animals. The attacks caused tens of millions of dollars in damage.

more at the link above ..

[Lauri]

and here is the money shot i just read in the article above..

Waters, who grew up outside of Philadelphia, attended The Evergreen State College.

 boy, i sure didnt see that coming.. 

[Rebel]

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.

Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.

[TheSarge]

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Typical Liberal selective outrage and faux indignation.

ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

[ReardenSteel]

The NYT's is showing their colors too...
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/03/03/nyt-term-eco-terrorists-anti-sprawl-activists

NYT Term for Eco-Terrorists: 'Anti-Sprawl Activists'
By Mark Finkelstein

Opening paragraph from the New York Times article on the eco-terrorists who burned three new homes north of Seattle today

For people who are anti-sprawl activists — or have baser motives — a new-built house sitting empty in a previously rural area evidently makes a ripe target for an attack by fire.

Consider also the article's headline "House Fires With a Message in the Northwest." Yes, think of it as a bonus. Not just a housefire . . . a housefire with a message!

Even the Associated Press manages to say it like it is in its article on the matter. AP headline: "Ecoterror Link Eyed in Wash. Fires."

Fires gutted three multimillion-dollar model homes in a Seattle suburb on Monday, and authorities found a sign purportedly left by eco-terrorists that mocks claims that the homes were environmentally friendly.

The Times can't bring itself to call these people what they are. They're not terrorists, just "activists" sending a "message." Imagine if the "activists" had been promoting a cause the Times abhors. Odds it would have handled matters in the same understanding way?

[Lauri]

anti sprawl activists.... hmm.. it just doesnt role off the tongue like 'eco terrorist' does.

i'm sticking with eco terrorist.

[The Night Owl]

Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.

The word naive is a synonym of the word childish.

[Rebel]

Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.

The word naive is a synonym of the word childish.

Delicacy is probably a synonym of the word sustenance, and even though fecal matter is a necessary sustenance for baby elephants, you wouldn't exactly call it a delicacy, would you?

[The Night Owl]

ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.