The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: GOBUCKS on June 28, 2009, 10:17:17 PM
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marmar (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:28 PM
Original message
College grads getting left with low-level jobs
via the Detroit Free Press:
College grads getting left with low-level jobs
Move makes it harder to increase earnings
WASHINGTON -- The tough economy and tight labor market have tarnished the luster of a bachelor's degree for young college graduates seeking employment.
New monthly survey data from the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University in Boston find that during the first four months of 2009, 49.9% of the nation's 4 million college graduates age 25 and younger were working in jobs that required a college degree. That's down from 54% for the same period last year.
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The problem is most acute in the 25-and-younger age group among Asian female graduates and black and Hispanic male graduates.
The survey of 60,000 households found less than 30% of Asian female grads, 32% of Hispanic male grads and just more than 35% of young black male grads working in jobs that require a bachelor's degree.
Working below your level
Research has shown that college graduates who take jobs below their education level not only earn less but also can take years to match the earnings of graduates who land career-track employment upon graduation.
These so-called mal-employed workers also compound the unemployment problem by taking jobs that noncollege graduates and even high school students are often qualified to hold. ..........(more)
The complete piece is at: http://www.freep.com/article/20090628/NEWS07/906280443/...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5948900
glowing (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:43 PM
7. Its been happening for years. College education is a joke to many who've walked the hallowed halls.
The real world doesn't want to pay for education.. and now competition with H1B visa'd persons is even harder. college needs to be a free path.
The_Casual_Observer (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:54 PM
9. All this talk about the value of an education means shit.
This is a piss poor country with shit opportunities. Unless your old man owns a business or you are struck by lightning & invent something that microsoft needs to buy you are going to be working for Hardees.
It is really tragic that these affirmative action students have been unable to parlay their degrees in African-American Studies, or Urban Studies, or General Studies into instant riches. Add to them the children of DUmmies, who have been counselled to study something they love, like Cartoon Art, or Drama, or Bassoon, and you have a lot of graduates working in fast food. The one positive thing about these degrees is that they are recession proof. A bad business climate has little effect on the number of high paying jobs available in their fields.
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The_Casual_Observer (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:54 PM
9. All this talk about the value of an education means shit.
This is a piss poor country with shit opportunities. Unless your old man owns a business or you are struck by lightning & invent something that microsoft needs to buy you are going to be working for Hardees.
Wow, spoken like a true DUmmy.
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Lot's of people work in fields outside their degree. The DUmmie moaning about the lack of oppurtunity has not even tried. It just moans that it can't possibly succeed.
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Lot's of people work in fields outside their degree. The DUmmie moaning about the lack of oppurtunity has not even tried. It just moans that it can't possibly succeed.
It (the DUmmy) can't. Success isn't something lying around for DUmbasses to trip over on the way to the Cheetos aisle; success is something actively sought after outside the stuffy confines of mama's basement.
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If I have a child, I will refuse to pay for a liberal arts education unless they either double major with something more employable or convince me that they want to move onto law school. Lots of degrees prior to law school are good. lol. It's for their own good.
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Lot's of people work in fields outside their degree. The DUmmie moaning about the lack of oppurtunity has not even tried. It just moans that it can't possibly succeed.
No kidding. I have a history degree. I was planning on being a teacher, until I actually worked in a classroom my last semester of college. The kids were great, it is the constant testing a structure from the district that would drive me crazy. I got a job about 2 months after graduation, and only about 6 weeks were spent really looking for work because I graduated in December, and gave myself a break for Christmas and New Years before I seriously started looking. I've been there for about 2 and half years now, and survived three rounds of layoffs. I make very decent money, and there is lots of growth potential.
I'll admit that I don't make as much money as I would as an Engineer, but I would be bored to death in that field. I took a computer science class in college, and I enjoyed it, but spending my whole day doing programming does not sound like a fun career. I'm still considering Graduate School, but I want to find a field that I really would want as a career before I make that investment.
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My stepfather has a degree in mathematics. I have no idea what you could do with that degree, but he wound up in insurance and makes more money in a month than I do all year.
The last person I met with a history degree was the fry cook I worked with at Houlihan's about ten years ago.
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The last person I met with a history degree was the fry cook I worked with at Houlihan's about ten years ago.
:evillaugh:
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BA's are BS
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I'm a bio major that is now a real estate appraiser. However, I did work in a lab for thirteen years, so that might be semi-applicable to my major . . .
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glowing (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:43 PM
7. Its been happening for years. College education is a joke to many who've walked the hallowed halls.
The real world doesn't want to pay for education.. and now competition with H1B visa'd persons is even harder. college needs to be a free path.
Where a DUmmy always ends up.
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You know, it's got to hurt when a DUmmie with a PhD in basket weaving finds a little old black woman with a 4 th grade education selling better baskets beside US 17 in S.C..
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The_Casual_Observer (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:54 PM
9. All this talk about the value of an education means shit.
This is a piss poor country with shit opportunities. Unless your old man owns a business or you are struck by lightning & invent something that microsoft needs to buy you are going to be working for Hardees.
Someone is speaking from experience... :whatever: :-)
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Hmmmm...my job TECHNICALLY only requires an AS, but try to 1--get it with just that and no experience, 2--it pays a helluva lot better than most Bachelor's degrees, including many BS degrees.
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BA's are BS
Depends. Graduating with a Bachelor's Degree will get your foot in the door and in some case, get you looked at for higher positions in places you couldn't without a degree. But it's up to the individual to take advantage of those opportunities when they present themselves. I get the feeling primitives want the sheepskin to do the talking rather than their own efforts.
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The last person I met with a history degree was the fry cook I worked with at Houlihan's about ten years ago.
Been there, done that, seen that, although was never a fry cook.
I got a degree in the History of the British Empire and Commonwealth, a 4-year B.A.--that came about because I was just a green underaged teenager, and the academic adviser said I knew "too much" American history at the time, and so had to "try something more challenging," because I was there "to learn something new."
Of course, what separated me from the primitives was that even though I was a 17-year-old who didn't know Pedro Picasso's ass from a hole in the ground, I knew even then, with utter clarity, that such knowledge was not "marketable" on the job market; I never expected that degree to get me a job.
It's been a while since my salad days, when I was green in judgement, but I suppose I was counting on my interest and work in hardware to land me a real job. I was really into hardware at the time; Stanley screwdrivers, Mead pliers, Black & Decker power tools, True Temper hammers, door hinges, pipe fittings, nuts and bolts, furnace filters, chains, &c., &c., &c.
And yes, it did land me two real jobs.
But then circa my late early 20s, I succumbed to pressure from family (older siblings and peers) to do something "white collar" and returned to college to get a second four-year B.A., this one in economics with a minor in accounting. I myself wasn't enthusiastic about it, but figured all these other people knew more than I did, and so I should.
So I quit hardware and moved into accounting, which turned out a mixed bag.
After some years of that, I went into management, which surprisingly until I came back to the Sandhills of Nebraska in late 2001, was the bulk of my work experience.
There was one interlude where I spent two years taking 380-pound 20' lengths of steel pipe and bending them at 90-degree angles to serve as free-standing poles for basketball backboards. As incredible as it may seem, that was the job that gave me the most stress-free life, the most contentment.
But then I went back into management.
After that, I came up here to the roof of Nebraska, and since then have been wondering what the Hell I'm supposed to be doing, and where.
Search for the meaning of life, I guess.
But anyway, my point being that I was fully aware I was working on a college degree in a pretty meaningless (for the job-market) field, but because I was young, and the whole world was crashing down (something that took about six years), I just decided, well, I had to be doing something, anything, and as long as it wasn't something that would get me into trouble, I should stick with it.
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Thre's two components to it, either one of which can put you on the road to success. One is the nature of the degree, and other is the "Size of the fight in the dog." DUmmies are born to lose on both counts.
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Thre's two components to it, either one of which can put you on the road to success. One is the nature of the degree, and other is the "Size of the fight in the dog." DUmmies are born to lose on both counts.
To an extent what you say is true, although I believe that it starts earlier in the "choice" process......I am a child of the "Sputnik" era, started with a BSME, took a Masters in math, and ended up with a PhD in Physics. My decision was not solely based on my interests (my parents wanted me to go to medical school), but was based on my desire to ultimately end up with a marketable skill set that could be used in a variety of economic circumstances.
None of my degree work was very easy.......and much of it was tough as hell, and/or boring.......but I decided upon a difficult course of study to challenge myself, and not to just become a "professional student", or to party for eight or nine years. I certainly did not have the highest GPA amongst my peers, but graduating in the top decile of my class was not my objective.
I retired permanently on April 24th of this year.........and as I look back on it, I am glad that I chose the path that I did........over nearly 50 years in either school or career, I never spent a day without a job of some kind, and was always able to support my family well, regardless of the condition of the economy.
My wife and I raised three kids, and we insisted that each of them choose an academic path that was both challenging and marketable.......all of them did, and all have both undergrad and graduate degrees, and are well employed........even the youngest, who just completed his MBA a couple of years ago.
I don't really understand why someone would waste four, six, or more years in academia without giving much thought to whether one would end up with a skill that would gain them benefit in the real world........but then, I'm not a DUmmie........
doc
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Well, Doc, you are a living example of the first path. My career is probably closer the second. There are a lot of different roads it could have taken at various times, but while soldiering was my true calling, I knew how far I could take it and how to blend it into further developments, and it's worked out pretty well if I do say so. I could retire now, but the value of my retirement income streams will increase by a factor of about five in a couple of more years, so I'll hold off on leaving the day job for that.
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Well, Doc, you are a living example of the first path. My career is probably closer the second. There are a lot of different roads it could have taken at various times, but while soldiering was my true calling, I knew how far I could take it and how to blend it into further developments, and it's worked out pretty well if I do say so. I could retire now, but the value of my retirement income streams will increase by a factor of about five in a couple of more years, so I'll hold off on leaving the day job for that.
I have gathered ( and I may be mistaken) from reading your posts over the life of the board that you are most likely a JAG lawyer.......an honorable commitment, compared to what you could command, income wise, in the private sector........you have our undying thanks for your service and devotion to the country. You might not have started out with that outcome in mind, but life has a way of directing our path, if we are smart enough to pay attention to our own instincts........whether we are directed on the path from the beginning, or evolve into it over time, it is the always the ultimate outcome that is important.......
doc
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I have a BA in Sociology with a concentration in Criminal Justice. Minors in Psych and Anthropology.
Graduated in 1974, had just turned 21 a few months before, was 5'4" (on a reallll tall day) and weighed 94 lbs and looked like I might have been 15 yrs old. I say this because I moved to Omaha hoping to get a job as BoysTown....it was what I wanted to do. Get a job, maybe save enough money to go to law school. BoysTown liked my references, my grades...everything...but the way I looked. I looked too much like one of the kids and the powers that be felt that it would be to great a risk to my safety. I was crushed. I know it was true, because I ended up working with a guy who's father was head of vocational rehab and I talked to him and he came right out and told me that was the reason I wasn't hired.
I worked retail for about a year, going from a buyer's assistant, to assistant department manager to department manager. Hated it....quit without a job and 2 weeks later was working for Xerox.
Great job with Xerox and was asked to be in their management trainee program....it was a time of the beginning of Affirmative Action and getting females into management. The main reason I was considered over other women in the office was because I had earned a college degree. They didn't care what it was in...just that I had one.
Should have opted to keep the job instead of getting married and moving clear across the country to Charlottesville VA.
I've been a Realtor for over 12 years.....the job that people go to when they don't know what else to do....
If I had known that I would never use my degree for it's intents and purposes, I would have majored in Anthropology...I liked it better. If I had known the directions my life would have taken....I would have majored in a something that I could have always found a job....nursing, accounting (if I could do math), brick or tile layer....
When my daughter was looking for a major...my primary advice was ...no matter what you pick....make sure it is something you can and will make money doing.
She has an associates degree, and a Radiology Tech degree. She makes incredible money...less than 2 years out and making close to $50k a year, working at a walkin clinic. If she chooses to go back and get specialized in ultrasounds, PET, or radiation therapy....she will make more. She will always be able to have a job.
The point is....30-40 years ago, all that mattered was having a college degree regardless of the subject...and there were good jobs to be found.
Not today.....today, when picking subjects in college with which to obtain a degee....it's not about what interest one has...it's about taking subjects that will guarantee a job that pays enough cash paper money to support oneself and possibly a family.
Schools today don't teach a kid to be practical when finding a career path...they teach them about following their dreams and wants. There are way fewer people in this world who have been able to follow their wants and dreams and make money....most of us just end up settling for what pays the bills.
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debk:
Schools today don't teach a kid to be practical when finding a career path...they teach them about following their dreams and wants. There are way fewer people in this world who have been able to follow their wants and dreams and make money....most of us just end up settling for what pays the bills.
I'd say this is a quality that has pretty much permeated our culture - the "instant gratification" that's infinitely preferable to the "let's wait for something better" discipline.
It's all about marketing and influence and the fact that kids are far more susceptible to it than older adults are - which explains why advertising is targeted at the young.
But I think there are a significant number of rational, thinking young people who seek out double-majors. These are the kids who work their asses off - first for a degree that is their "passion" and second for a degree that will result in a job should the "passion" go belly-up -- as it often does.
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The point is....30-40 years ago, all that mattered was having a college degree regardless of the subject...and there were good jobs to be found.
Not today.....today, when picking subjects in college with which to obtain a degee....it's not about what interest one has...it's about taking subjects that will guarantee a job that pays enough cash paper money to support oneself and possibly a family.
Schools today don't teach a kid to be practical when finding a career path...they teach them about following their dreams and wants. There are way fewer people in this world who have been able to follow their wants and dreams and make money....most of us just end up settling for what pays the bills.
debk gets it.
On the other hand, kids following their dreams of acting, or designing video games, or being record producers provide us with a lot of very fine waiters and busboys. And one out of a thousand will make a living in his field.
One litmus test: if your planned degree will require that you have a "day job", it's probably not a good idea.
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I graduated from High School and wanted to be an electrical engineer, but I didn't have money and didn't know how to get scholarships. I took student loans and got within a semester of a AS in pre-engineering. My relationship with my parents had been deteriorating since my tenth grade in high school, and that's saying something since it was never a good situation to begin with.
I decided to join the army, and signed up to be a satellite communications operator/maintainer. I continued to read books on electrical engineering, circuit design and theory, mathematics, and programming. I was promoted to a team lead slot, and learned a lot about how to manage people, I had a good first platoon sergeant.
I left the army and joined a company in the defense industry and got picked up for a project management career track. I'm finishing my AS while I'm here in the sandbox, but I wonder if I shouldn't just transfer to a business management degree.
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I finished my BA in Management, while still active duty, in 1994, 20 years after graduation from high school. This is a meaningless degree, indicating more an issue with the availability of courses in Germany than any sound discipline that I wanted to study.
After I retired, I found a job almost immediately in pharmaceutical quality assurance.
Fifteen years later, I'm in still in QA and have moved to manager level.
Say what you will, but I think timing (I offered to manage the customer complaint program), and certainly Providence have a lot to do with the direction my second career went in -- that despite my meaningless BA.
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Say what you will, but I think timing (I offered to manage the customer complaint program), and certainly Providence have a lot to do with the direction my second career went in -- that despite my meaningless BA.
I have found that stepping up to the plate to take on the hard ones that need to be done will hurt in the short run, but will pay off over and over again in multiple ways over the long haul. And, if you let opportunity in when it knocks, it tends to be a more and more frequent visitor.
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I have found that stepping up to the plate to take on the hard ones that need to be done will hurt in the short run, but will pay off over and over again in multiple ways over the long haul. And, if you let opportunity in when it knocks, it tends to be a more and more frequent visitor.
I've had the lucky route. When I was working as an Electronics Technician, there was a point where my budget was the only one on the project that showed a profit. Then they gave me a manager who violated policy and charged thirty hours a week to my project (most of his hours were spent running the rec committee and feeling up various female workers) and had the mechs start charging my code to fix all of their screw ups as I caught them.
The PM yanked the work out of the building, and another group who had observed me picked me up to be on the PM team. Doing PM work proved to be enjoyable, the tasks vary, there is interesting work to do, and generally your off to something new every six months or so.
The hardest part of that line of work for me is putting up with the Electrical Engineers. I have no idea what color the sky is in their world.