You want to talk "Unity"? Okay, let's talk about unity

[dutch508]

Oh, man.... long but well worth the read.

Scootaloo (23,460 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511526477

You want to talk "Unity"? Okay, let's talk about unity


Hi there, everyone, and welcome to Scootaloo's first thread of the general election. First off, i want to give a big shout-out to Skinner. In the time-honored (as of one month) tradition of the democratic party, he has decided that since so many of you could not follow rules or meet community standards, he ought to change the rules and lower those standards until you can clear the bar. Round of applause for Skinner folks.

Pokes aside, I really am glad that so many of you are available to engage now, because, as you might have noticed, I'm here to talk about something serious; the general election and how we're gonna get through it with our collective asses intact. What's that, coming to the Primaries forum to talk about the general, whaaaaat. Yeah, see, I've been doing some thinking. And I've come to accept that no, Bernie sanders will almost certainly not be the nominee. Now before anyone throws confetti, I think he still does have a shot. I'm an adherent of Miracle Max, "There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead" after all. I will be putting in all I can to turn that around. But Scootaloo ain't no fool, and i know the chances are pretty damn slim at this point. So rather than plod along all naive and fall on my face at the convention, I've decided to plan ahead.

Let's all be honest about what we face here. Donald Trump is the likely GOP nominee. And while we poo-poo him to make ourselves feel good, we ALL recognize that Republican voters love the guy. They're fired up for Trump. That's bad enough, but wait there's more! We're coming off a two-term Democratic administration. Hopefully we're all savvy enough to know what an uphill struggle it is to get another same-party victory after a two-termer. Americans have an unfortunate habit of partisan burnout and middle-ground fallacy, where they believe "well, party A had eight years, it's time to see what party B can do." it's not impossible to overcome - Bush beat Dukakais... but... Bush vs. Dukakais is a definite outlier. And third problem... our nominee is most likely Hillary Clinton. I know, I know, you just love her. But the republicans do not. Even the people who ****ing haaaaate Trump over on team Rocket are going to come out just to put a shoe in her mouth in November. She's more of a Republican motivator than any three of their clown car candidates put together.

So that's three big problems right there. And you're right. You guys are absolutely right, if we don't pull together as a unit, losing is a certainty. And I dunno about you, but losing is bad enough, but losing to that is downright terrifying.

But you've got another problem. Now, my Hillary-supporting frienemies, it seems that even though you are celebrating Tuesday's turn of events, some of you are starting to notice a problem of your own. Quite a disheartening problem. I recognize a little thread of wailing despair curling and coiling through your posts and your jeers and your demands for loyalty. Especially your demands for loyalty. You've come to a pretty hideous, awful realization yourself. One that frightens you. Terrifies, even. keeps you awake at night, clutching your Bill Clinton-print comfort pillow and leaving the oven light on as you contemplate your future within its carbon-crusted maw.

YOU NEED US TO WIN

I was just talking about how fired-up Republicans are to take on Clinton. You know who else isn't a big fan of Hillary Clinton? Independent voters and about 36% of the Democratic base. Both of these groups are essential to any chance of a Democratic victory in November. I know all of you realize that, and i know it must be very uncomfortable, after spending lal these months informing us of how no, you don't need us, that we're worthless, that we're collectively the worst human beings - or in some cases, subhumans - you can imagine. You've insisted that we're gingham-clad white supremacists who want handouts without looking up from our iphones who have the intelligence and attention span of your average Irish setter, and all of our mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters are hell-bound gender-traitors chasing after our dicks.

And now you gotta figure out how to get us on board. Yeek!

So far the major strategy for this seems to be threats, harassment, and demands. Declarations that we better get on the Clinton Boat OR ELSE. Pronouncements that if Trump wins, it's all OUR fault. Demands for cut palms, trade in firstborns, and dire blood oaths under a full moon, or what-the-hell-have you. And I hate to point out the obvious guys, but it's not working so well, is it? if you actually want us on board with Clinton, you're doing a fine job of ****ing it up. You know all that stuff you rightly condemn some Sanders supporters doing to black voters? Why on earth do you think it's any better, or any more effective, when you do the same thing to the left?

The problem is, you're not really showing any desire for unity there. It's not that you want us all to come together and work forward. You want Independents and Sanders supporters to knuckle under, subsume ourselves, and just go along with whatever the hell you want, no questions allowed. You don't want unity, when you pull the "JOIN US OR ELSE, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE" ploy. You clearly want dominance, subjugation, obeisance. You're domineering, you're sneering, you're entitled, you're bullying, and the cat-herd of the left collectively lifts its tail to show you its asshole and trots off.

If you want unity - actual unity, the sort that can actually put us towards something... you're going to have to understand that we have a say on what's going on. We have an essential say in what's going on, because again, without us, you're up shit creek.
"But.. so are you!" you cry. well, yes. yes we would be. But let me share with you a line from a favorite poem of mine, Rudyard Kipling's "A Pict Song:"
We shall be slaves just the same?
Yes, we have always been slaves

For the left, the difference between Trump and Clinton - as she stands now - is a difference between having a boot on your face and having a soccer cleat on your face. yeah there's a noticeable difference, but someone's still kicking you in the face. This is why we've been pulling hard for Sanders, because as far as we can tell, he has little interest in kicking us in the face.

Also while I do not share this particular sentiment, there's the notion out there that four years of Trump followed by Anybody Elseâ„¢ will be more livable than eight years of Clinton followed by an inevitable republican. I don't buy it because it presumes America would be smart enough to dump Trump in 2020, and I voted in 2004. Like I said, Scootaloo ain't no fool.

So here we are. You need us. There's no question whatsoever to that fact, you ****ing need us. Where we're having a problem is how you get us. because harassment and intimidation ain't going to do it. if you want us on board, and I know you do, well... Unity involves give and take. if we take Clinton as our nominee, what do we get in turn, you see?

To get us, you must first get us

So, what appeals to sanders supporters? I'm not sure I've ever seen any of you ask this before, except maybe as a rhetorical device to lead to some anti-sanders snark "THEY WANT FREE STUFF!" or "THEY HATE WIMMINS!" or the like. I'm going to assume that this is mostly Silly Season fluff, and that in your hearts, you actually know better than this. Show of hands, before April 30, 2015, how many of you were as dead-set against single-payer as you are now? No hands. same thing, before April 30, 2015, how many of you would have thought public funding for public colleges is an abominable idea? Again, I'm betting no one has their hands up. How many of you think Obama is a clueless shithead and that John Kerry can't do shit for **** right? What a surprise, no hands.

No, we don't want "free stuff," we want public investment into things that the American people ****ing need and deserve to live their lives the best they can.

No, we're not pacifists, we just realize that acting like the Lord and Master of the World causes more problems than it can ever solve.

No, we are certainly not opposed to social Justice at all, but we are opposed to opportunists with no plans to address social justice issues using it as a smokescreen to block other issues. "But Will That End Racism," indeed, mrs. Clinton.

No, we do not "hate the rich," but we do think that the gratuitous handouts our society gives the rich are unfair and even very damaging to the well-being of our people.

No, the youth vote is not "lazy," they simply see a political system that has no interest in them or their issues, but will happily take their votes anyway while still denying those issues have importance

No, we don't want "handouts," but we want a wage guaranteeing that even the bottom rung of employment can afford a place to live, food to eat, and have some set aside for a rainy day beside.

No, we don't want to drag out the guillotine in our revolution, but we do want the overwhelming influence of money in our system drawn to a close - when the chair of the Democratic Party is defending loan sharks, even YOU have to admit there's a problem.

So on and so on. Sanders supporters are at the core, motivated by empathy and an interest in the future. It sounds trite, but it's true. I support Sanders because all my life I've been watching people get ****ed by a rigged economic system. Family, friends, neighbors, mother****ers I never even met. All strapped to the machine, getting ****ed by it. Sometimes to death. Poverty KILLS PEOPLE in this country, ladies and gentlemen. I find that completely untenable. I see that just to have a chance of unstrapping this machine from themselves, people have to put themselves even deeper into debt to get an education that is still very far from a guarantee of their future. I see - I've lived in - communities that are literally falling apart at the seams, because big franchises and box stores get tax break after tax break, sucking the town or city dry, leaving its people stripped and its infrastructure rotting. I look at the state of the world - its wars, its climate, its trends... and while I realize a US president can't change it all, I've supported Sanders because I think he's a good step on the right path to address - or at least properly prepare for - those issues.

I support Sanders because I see a country that is falling the **** apart, and he's the only person actually talking hammer and nails instead of scotch tape and best wishes. Maybe other sanders supporters have different notions, or lists, but that's mine.

In order to win over Sanders supporters - Democrats and independents - you gotta offer what they want. We don't come when you call, i'm sorry.

Terms and conditions

So. We all want to kick Trump's sorry orange ass and leave him talking about how he eats the best dirt, the best, right? we agree that this only has a chance of happening if we're all together, right/ And now, hopefully, we understand that the only way we can all pull together is if an honest effort is made to bring us in, to win the votes here on the 'other side" of the party, and appeal to independents. And we now know that "But... TRUMP BOOGA BOOGA BOO!" doesn't cut it, and the appeal must be a positive one, a selling point, a concession to the people being wooed.

So, what concessions? I can't speak for everyone over here in Sandersnavia but I've got a few ideas. These are things Clinton needs to do - or should do - in order to appeal to us, to make an honest effort to bring us in.

The Non-Negotiables

This is the important stuff. the big sellers. Things clinton really can't afford to cast aside and ignore. At least, by my reckoning. I will overcome my skepticism of her on these; if she carries such issues into her GE campaign, i will give her the benefit of hte doubt on them through her first term. However, I will hold her to it just the same. These are all importnt for not just bringing Sanders Democrats and Independents in, but also preserving and expanding our party.

• Dedication to Single-Payer in her first term: This is the big one. This is the grand prize, this is the big ****ing selling point for Sanders supporters. Without it, there's little chance of anything happening. mrs. Clinton went to bat for serious healthcare reform in the 90's, and Sen. Sanders had her back then. She needs to have his now. The democratic party has been gnashing at the bit for single-payer for over a decade now, and thanks to president Obama, the powder is dry and primed. We're ready. Sec. Clinton needs to not only promise that she will put her all into forwarding single-payer, but make honest, visible effort on that front on her first term. She DOES NOT have to achieve it in her first term, no one here thinks she's a wizard or anything. but she needs to put the work in. bend some ears, break some arms, Johnson-level stuff. Canada has public health care. Mexico has public health care. ****ing broke-as-shit Cuba and Jamaica have universal health care. Sec. Clinton needs to drop her "Never, Ever, Ever!" campaign rhetoric, and get on board with the hemisphere.

• Make good on the primary season's social justice plays: Remember what I was saying about how we have a problem with people faking concern for social justice to cover up and obfuscate other issues? Specifically cited Clinton's "But Will That end Racism" quip? I want her to prove me wrong. I want her to get up there and break her own skinny white ass to bring all the stuff she and her supporters have been talking to reality. Again I don't expect some harry Potter stuff, but if she's just gonna leave that rhetoric in the dirt after the primaries are over, she ain't worth the words it takes to tell her what to do with herself and with what. I also want her to add Sanders' advocacy for First Americans to her platform. He's absolutely on the right path there, and she needs to scoop it up and run with it if she's the nominee.

• Stay on President Obama's foreign policy trajectory, and retain John Kerry as Secretary of State: I'm going to be very blunt with you, Clinton supporters; Clinton's record on foreign policy ****ing terrifies me. Legitimately frightens me. I have seen birds of prey that are less hawkish than sec. Clinton. On the other hand, while I may not always agree with president Obama's foreign policy decisions, I acknowledge that mostly it's been good, with some major steps in the right direction. And I also recognize that Sec. Kerry is a big part of those good steps. I Want good relations with Cuba. I want thawed relations with Iran. I want diplomacy in Syria. I want all these things so much that if I could I would give Obama a 3rd term just because i think he can make them happen. i do not expect a President Clinton to be hands-off on foreign policy. Of course not, she'd be the president. But I do need her to stay on President Obama's current trajectory, including major staffing.

• Replace Debbie Wasserman-Schultz as DNC chair: All the double-dealings and underhanded shit from this person during the campaign aside, there remains the fact that she's been bad for our party. we've lost entire states under her, while she openly backs and helps republicans in her own. More than anyone, she has apparently worked hard ot push democrats away from their party with cockamamie shit like her sudden finance rules changes, her support for payday lenders, the lot of it. I honestly think that even Rince Priebus would be a better DNC chair than Wasserman-Schultz. I don't give a good shit who is tagged to replace her. bring Dean back, hell, as compromised as he is with lobbyists, he at least did the ****ing work, got Democrats elected, made the west coast remember that they're still welcome in the party. Just have a quiet little meetign with Debbie, tell her "thanks for your service," give her a fruit basket and a slap on the back, and replace her with Teddy Ruxpin or something. Just... go!

• Pick a running mate to the left of herself: and I don't mean like, half a baby step to the left. I want someone solid on this ticket, someone I know is on my side. And before you say it, no. not Sanders. I wouldn't object to a Clinton / Sanders ticket per se, but if he's not going to be president, I want him busting his skinny white ass in the Senate. Maybe someone off of his campaign; How do we all feel about a Clinton / Turner ticket? Heck, I think i'd settle for O'Malley, honestly, just so long as it's not another Clintocentric inner circle person. And for god's sake, no ****ing Lieberman-types!

Some Other Stuff

Those were the big-ticket items I have to see, things that are essential to winning over people supporting Bernie. They're reasons WHY we support Bernie, after all. What follows here are some good ideas that would cement me with Clinton, but that I kind of don't expect.

• Push for changing the primary schedules for the party: We all agree that the current system is simply non-representative. Focus on primaries: caucuses are at once super-democratic, and undemocratic; everyone there gets a say, but only people who can show up get a say - primaries are broader and get more voters involved. Stand for ease of access for voters; same-day registration builds us and lets people who woudl vote with the party know that their input is welcome.

• Take up Sanders' college tuition plan. Yes, this is in the "other stuff" bin primarily because, well to be fair it's maybe his shakiest idea. it's a good idea, and it's a workable idea, but it's hardly a perfect one, and if I have to choose, i'd rather see universal healthcare come first. Still, this is a big motivator for young voters, and Clinton would do well to pick it up, or at least work parts of it into her own plan. Mind her plan isn't terrible by any means - it's just not quite good enough. Let's have a peanut-butter meets chocolate thing on this issue, shall we?

• real action on climate change. The most important of all issues to me, and it's in the "if you have time" bin... because to be painfully honest, I think it's too late and I doubt the president,whoever they are, can actually do much about it. But some honest effort and motion on it would be appreciated, rather than just empty gesture.

There are mot, but yeah, it's kind of a grab bag.

Blackmail!

Right now i'll bet a lot of Clinton supporters are back on their heels on all this. "How DARE you make demands! You think you can set conditions?!" Yes. Actually I do. Well, not me personally, i'm just one guy speaking his mind, frankly. But yes, Sanders supporters do get to call terms if we're going to sign up for the Clinton ship. because you need us. You need us bad. And in all fairness, what i'm asking - and they're things i think most of my fellows woudl agree with - are all good things. They're not there to humiliate or denigrate or hurt anyone. I want our party to win, but more importantly I want it to win well. I want it to have focus, I want it to make achievement. I'm sick of 'Vote democrat; we're not republicans!" There's nothing to this list that any Clinton supporter can seriously sit down and go "Ew, **** no, what an awful idea."

If you want to call it blackmail, by all means, break a leg. But what it is, is us helping you, to help everyone. You want unity, we will want unity, and this is the sort of thing it takes. Clinton is simply not going to win the general election without picking up several of Sanders' planks and adding them to her own platform. She needs to do this, and she need to do it seriously, in order to have her best shot at retaining the people currently backing sanders.

To those of you who would rather sneer and punch down, well. Go for it I guess. You've got a few months of primary campaigning left. maybe less, if your candidate does as well as you seem to expect. After that's all done, you're right back here and facing the real problem if "Bernie or Bust" voters. I would suggest that, instead of the scoffing and threats, you start talking serious about what you say you want - unity. Give some real thought about what that takes.

At any rate. I think I'm done with primary season on DU. I'm tired. I'm sick of begin angry and getting hated on in turn. See you all at the movies.

[Mr Mannn]

If I'm not reading that, there is no way the DUmmies are read it.

[franksolich]

If I'm not reading that, there is no way the DUmmies are read it.

Actually it's a pretty good read, remarkably for a primitive well-written.

But if one doesn't want to read it, essentially the scooter primitive is proposing that Messalina Agripinna consign herself to being a figurehead while the Bernie bullies actually have all the power.

[Big Dog]

In response:

Dear Scootaloo,

On behalf of the Democratic Party, "**** you."


Love,
Debbie Wasserman Schultz

[landofconfusion80]

What's kind of sad (not really) is that somebody is so self important to think their ideas are important enough to write a tomb like that. Of course the only ones to read it at best are a handful of equally unimportant dregs on society and maybe a couple of us who laugh at them

[Delmar]

How many of you think Obama is a clueless shithead and that John Kerry can't do shit for **** right? What a surprise, no hands.

I thought it was a rhetorical question.

[Carl]

I got through half...it actually has some realistic reflections to it so I am sure no DUmbass will even consider it.

[USA4ME]

But if one doesn't want to read it, essentially the scooter primitive is proposing that Messalina Agripinna consign herself to being a figurehead while the Bernie bullies actually have all the power.

I see one primitive did give the proper response to such a "request".

BKH70041

135. Don't need you. Don't want you.

You lost your right to have an opinion when you formed the wrong one. You don't deserve to have a voice at any political level.

Go create your own party, progressive populists or democratic socialist or whatever you want to call yourselves. You'll be much, much happier in the long run on your own. Because in the short run, and within the Democratic Party, you're going nowhere.

Straight and to the point. But, of course, it was hidden because honesty is forbidden on the island.

.

[Zathras]

I hope that HiLIARy does exactly what the DUmbass demands. the GOP would win the Presidency in a landslide.

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

I think a drinking game could be made around how many times this DUmmy curses in that rant.
"Canada has public health care. Mexico has public health care. ****ing broke-as-shit Cuba and Jamaica have universal health care."
1. Americans make fun of Canada's health care system. Europeans make fun of Canada's health care system. CANADIANS make fun of Canada's health care system! If that's what you want, DUmmy, then I hope you enjoy waiting months for a simple operation.
2. Cuba has great health care, IF you're well- connected to their government (As is the case for any kind of beneficial treatment in Cuba or any other Communist nation), or if granting it to you can be used to make Cuba's health care system look good in the eyes of the rest of the world (i.e. the US military veterans in Michael Moore's crockumentary 'Sicko,' who he made a big show of flying to Cuba to get necessary operations; Somehow I doubt that the average Cuban peasant would get access to that kind of health care).

" Make good on the primary season's social justice plays: Remember what I was saying about how we have a problem with people faking concern for social justice to cover up and obfuscate other issues? Specifically cited Clinton's "But Will That end Racism" quip? I want her to prove me wrong. I want her to get up there and break her own skinny white ass to bring all the stuff she and her supporters have been talking to reality. Again I don't expect some harry Potter stuff, but if she's just gonna leave that rhetoric in the dirt after the primaries are over, she ain't worth the words it takes to tell her what to do with herself and with what. I also want her to add Sanders' advocacy for First Americans to her platform. He's absolutely on the right path there, and she needs to scoop it up and run with it if she's the nominee. "
There's nothing remotely concrete in anything you just said, it's just random empty rhetoric.

"Stay on President Obama's foreign policy trajectory..."
Ah, so continue the old "Piss off, insult, and even openly betray those nations who were once our allies (i.e. Britain, Honduras, Israel), while simultaneously kissing up to and indulging every whim of our nation's enemies who routinely chant 'Death to America' (i.e. Iran)" routine. Got it.

[SVPete]

2. Cuba has great health care, IF you're well- connected to their government (As is the case for any kind of beneficial treatment in Cuba or any other Communist nation), or if granting it to you can be used to make Cuba's health care system look good in the eyes of the rest of the world (i.e. the US military veterans in Michael Moore's crockumentary 'Sicko,' who he made a big show of flying to Cuba to get necessary operations; Somehow I doubt that the average Cuban peasant would get access to that kind of health care).

For the ordinary Cuban on the street the Cuban healthcare system is really killer!

[Big Dog]

" Make good on the primary season's social justice plays: Remember what I was saying about how we have a problem with people faking concern for social justice to cover up and obfuscate other issues? Specifically cited Clinton's "But Will That end Racism" quip? I want her to prove me wrong. I want her to get up there and break her own skinny white ass to bring all the stuff she and her supporters have been talking to reality. Again I don't expect some harry Potter stuff, but if she's just gonna leave that rhetoric in the dirt after the primaries are over, she ain't worth the words it takes to tell her what to do with herself and with what. I also want her to add Sanders' advocacy for First Americans to her platform. He's absolutely on the right path there, and she needs to scoop it up and run with it if she's the nominee. "

This DUmmy had got to be kidding. Hillary's "skinny white ass" looks like 60 pounds of chewed gum.

[SVPete]

This DUmmy had got to be kidding. Hillary's "skinny white ass" looks like 60 pounds of chewed gum.

Mind bleach clean-up needed in San Jose!

[98ZJUSMC]

We're coming off a two-term Democratic administration. Hopefully we're all savvy enough to know what an uphill struggle it is to get another same-party victory after a two-termer. Americans have an unfortunate habit of partisan burnout and middle-ground fallacy, where they believe "well, party A had eight years, it's time to see what party B can do."

Nope.  Sorry.  Guess again.