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Author Topic: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce  (Read 2582 times)

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Offline Wretched Excess

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Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« on: April 17, 2008, 08:25:56 PM »
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Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) — A court hearing to decide the fate of the 416 children swept up in a raid on a West Texas polygamist sect descended into farce Thursday, with hundreds of lawyers in two packed buildings shouting objections and the judge struggling to maintain order.

The case — clearly one of the biggest, most convoluted child-custody hearings in U.S. history — presented an extraordinary spectacle: big-city lawyers in suits and mothers in 19th-century, pioneer-style dresses, all packed into a courtroom and a nearby auditorium connected by video.

At issue was an attempt by the state of Texas to strip the parents of custody and place the children in foster homes because of evidence they were being physically and sexually abused by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon splinter group suspected of forcing underage girls into marriage with older men.

As many feared, the proceedings turned into something of a circus — and a painfully slow one.

By late afternoon only two witnesses had testified, and both only to lay the foundation for documents to be admitted. One witness, a state trooper, was cross-examined by dozens of attorneys, each of them asking the same question on behalf of a child or parent.

much more

what a mess. :thatsright:  did anyone else catch those three sect ladies on fox the other morning?   :mental:
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 09:21:44 PM »
Who decided to make this a circus?  There is nothing stopping the judge from dividing this case. 
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 09:50:03 PM »
Quote from: Lord Undies on April 17, 2008, 09:21:44 PM
Who decided to make this a circus?  There is nothing stopping the judge from dividing this case. 

that's what I was thinking, but I am guessing 430 separate custody cases would probably overwhelm the county court.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 09:53:39 PM »
Quote from: Wretched Excess on April 17, 2008, 09:50:03 PM
Quote from: Lord Undies on April 17, 2008, 09:21:44 PM
Who decided to make this a circus?  There is nothing stopping the judge from dividing this case. 

that's what I was thinking, but I am guessing 430 separate custody cases would probably overwhelm the county court.

Well, hoo-pah!  So the current situation hasn't overwhelmed the court?  Even Barnam & Bailey had sense enough to divide into three rings.
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Offline mamacags

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 10:59:49 PM »
I have to question removing that many kids to investigate one claim of abuse.  I don't like the polygamist sects anymore than anyone else but it just seems wrong to take those kids from their families.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 11:03:05 PM »
Quote from: mamacags on April 17, 2008, 10:59:49 PM
I have to question removing that many kids to investigate one claim of abuse.  I don't like the polygamist sects anymore than anyone else but it just seems wrong to take those kids from their families.

Personally, I think someone tried to set President Bush up with his own Waco, but it failed. 
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 12:48:27 AM »
What a mess...  :banghead:

Fake Call May Have Led to Polygamist Raid

COLORADO SPRINGS - A call from a 16-year old girl, claiming sexual abuse at the Texas Polygamist Compound may have been a prank call from a Colorado Springs woman. 33-year old Rozita Swinton was arrested Wednesday Night by Colorado Springs Police.

According to sources close to the investigation, the F.B.I. began tracing calls from a person named "Sarah" to a Teenage Rescue Mission for girls trying to escape the sect. "Sarah" is the same person who made the call which lead to the raid.  Authorities now believe Swinton was behind those fake calls, where 416 children were removed from the compound.

(more...
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 09:15:26 AM »
Someone on TOS claimed to have a relative who was involved in the raid or at least the aftercare and they claimed that "Sarah" existed but was in hiding because she still had family members inside the sect. Oy.
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Offline BEG

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 01:31:43 PM »

Quote
Investigator: Sect girls pregnant as young as 13
Raucous hearing over fate of 416 children seized from polygamist ranch


updated 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
SAN ANGELO, Texas - After hours of lawyers popping up with similar objections and questions, a custody hearing for 416 children seized from a polygamist sect finally turned to whether they were abused: A child welfare worker said some women at the sect’s ranch may have had children when they were minors, some as young as 13.


....more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24199519
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 01:55:52 PM »
Quote from: mamacags on April 17, 2008, 10:59:49 PM
I have to question removing that many kids to investigate one claim of abuse.  I don't like the polygamist sects anymore than anyone else but it just seems wrong to take those kids from their families.
There is very real evidence of widespread abuse.  And there is absolutely no way to determine which child goes with which parents -- there are no records and the sect members and kids don't know.  So it needs to be taken as a group since it can't be partitioned.  And they have to keep the kids in protective custody until the true picture emerges.
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Offline mamacags

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 01:56:11 PM »
Should we take every 13 year old that gets pregnant away from their parents?  This whole thing seems hinky to me.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 02:03:35 PM »
Quote from: mamacags on April 18, 2008, 01:56:11 PM
Should we take every 13 year old that gets pregnant away from their parents?  This whole thing seems hinky to me.

I think that the legal assumption is that; A. As a 13 YO cannot legally be married, and B. Said 13 YO cannot legally consent to the sex act required to produce a pregnancy, Therefore, any and all 13 YO's that either are, or have been pregnant are direct evidence of sexual abuse.....

doc
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Offline BEG

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 02:34:04 PM »
Quote from: mamacags on April 18, 2008, 01:56:11 PM
Should we take every 13 year old that gets pregnant away from their parents?  This whole thing seems hinky to me.

While I agree with you in principle in this case I don't.  THey are polygamists and polygamists tend to "marry" their "women" very young.  If the minors (the article said minors in the plural) had children when they themselves were children, something is definitely going on.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 02:49:27 PM »
Quote from: TVDOC on April 18, 2008, 02:03:35 PM
Quote from: mamacags on April 18, 2008, 01:56:11 PM
Should we take every 13 year old that gets pregnant away from their parents?  This whole thing seems hinky to me.

I think that the legal assumption is that; A. As a 13 YO cannot legally be married, and B. Said 13 YO cannot legally consent to the sex act required to produce a pregnancy, Therefore, any and all 13 YO's that either are, or have been pregnant are direct evidence of sexual abuse.....

doc

It is de facto evidence of statutory rape. The kids don't leave the compound so therefore were impregnated there.  This means there is rape, conspiracy to commit rape, accessory to rape, accessory after the fact, etc. etc. etc.  Multiple counts.

And MamC, as I said earlier, no one knows who the parents are.  Who do you give which kids to?
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2008, 08:19:07 AM »
This made the news this morning...

Texas authorities cancel warrant for man accused of abusing FLDS girl

AMARILLO, Texas -- Texas authorities have canceled the arrest warrant for the Arizona man who had been suspected of physically and sexually abusing a teenage girl -- allegations that launched last month's raid on an FLDS ranch in Eldorado.

Law enforcement did not find the teenage girl or Barlow at the YFZ Ranch, owned by the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The man named in the warrant, Dale E. Barlow, was never arrested and denied knowing the girl. Officials have not located or idenified her.

A spokesman for the Texas Department of Safety said he could not elaborate on why the warrant was canceled.
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Offline Baruch Menachem

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Re: Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2008, 10:49:41 PM »
We need to get Phillygirl in on this discussion.  I think there are grounds for tossing all the arrests if the warrants were invalid.

They do have probable cause,  I guess.   I would hate to see all this get tossed on those  grounds though.
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