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Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2012, 05:25:10 PM »
Quote from: BigTex on September 28, 2012, 04:56:36 PM
Thats laughable, he compares favorably to most the greats before him. Hes got 4 MVPs, 5 all-pro's, 11 pro bowls, 3rd all time in Yards, TDs and completions, 2nd all time in game winning drives., 4th all-time in wins as a starting QB (he will be 2nd by the end of the year). Even as a big cowboy fan I know hes better than Aikman and Staubach

I can count on one or two fingers the number of teams who wouldn't trade their current QB for Manning in his prime.  To me, the greatest of all time list would look something like this:

1) Elway
2) Unitas
3) Manning
4) Marino
5) Favre
6) Montana
7) Brady
8) Staubach
9) Bradshaw

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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2012, 05:28:03 PM »
Quote from: BigTex on September 28, 2012, 03:56:36 PM
So the best QBs of all time are Starr and Bradshaw?

Let''s see. I have been watching teams/players for over 60 years compared to your 15.

BTW, I never said they were the best. I say both are great. Being the best is extremely subjective.

You were the one that said Bradshaw was overrated and I proved you wrong by my previous post.

 
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Offline BigTex

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2012, 05:34:39 PM »
Quote from: WinOne4TheGipper on September 28, 2012, 05:25:10 PM
I can count on one or two fingers the number of teams who wouldn't trade their current QB for Manning in his prime.  To me, the greatest of all time list would look something like this:

1) Elway
2) Unitas
3) Manning
4) Marino
5) Favre
6) Montana
7) Brady
8) Staubach
9) Bradshaw



Thats pretty close to my list, Id put Montanna higher and Elway lower (in fact Id just flip where you have them) and the early era QBs (Baugh, Graham, and Luckman) ahead of Staubach and Bradshaw
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline BigTex

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2012, 05:38:13 PM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on September 28, 2012, 05:28:03 PM

You were the one that said Bradshaw was overrated and I proved you wrong by my previous post.

No you didnt you can be great AND overrated. I point to my previous post

Quote
the NFL network ranked Bradshaw the 50th best player of all-time, the "fans" ranked him 22nd. I think Bradshaw is a lot closer to the 50th best player than the 22nd. Therefore I think he is overrated.
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 05:42:15 PM »
Quote from: BigTex on September 28, 2012, 05:34:39 PM
Thats pretty close to my list, Id put Montanna higher and Elway lower (in fact Id just flip where you have them) and the early era QBs (Baugh, Graham, and Luckman) ahead of Staubach and Bradshaw

I was thinking of putting Graham at ten. 

I think I was spoiled as a kid because when I was growing up, Favre, Elway, Marino, Aikman and Young were playing.  They would all be somewhere in my top 25 or 30.
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Offline Conservative_Sangfroid

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2012, 05:43:08 PM »
There should be no discussion but that Montana was the best QB ever and one of the best to play the game at any position.

You might make arguments that Unitas, Starr, and a couple of others were the best ever but no way is ANYONE that was on that list before Montana in ANY way to be in that list.
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2012, 06:52:51 PM »
Quote from: BigTex on September 28, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
No you didnt you can be great AND overrated. I point to my previous post


And I point to a record that will never ever be broken and that is back to back S.B. wins twice. No one will ever accomplish that.
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Offline BigTex

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2012, 06:55:51 PM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on September 28, 2012, 06:52:51 PM
And I point to a record that will never ever be broken and that is back to back S.B. wins twice. No one will ever accomplish that.

And that has nothing to do with Terry Bradshaw and everything to do with free agency, salary caps and steroid testing
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 06:58:43 PM by BigTex »
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline Lacarnut

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2012, 06:59:31 PM »
Quote from: Conservative_Sangfroid on September 28, 2012, 05:43:08 PM
There should be no discussion but that Montana was the best QB ever and one of the best to play the game at any position.

.

Nope. Montana could not hold Walter Peyton's or Bart Starr jock strap.

Now don't get into one of your immature rages.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2012, 10:57:06 PM »
Oh, now, will ya look at that!!!  30/38, 338 yards, 3 TD's, no picks!
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Offline debk

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2012, 03:21:50 AM »
Quote from: NHSparky on September 30, 2012, 10:57:06 PM
Oh, now, will ya look at that!!!  30/38, 338 yards, 3 TD's, no picks!

Not too shabby for an overrated QB....  :whistling:



 :yahoo:


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Offline formerlurker

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2012, 05:06:11 AM »
 :whatever:
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Offline wasp69

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2012, 09:58:42 AM »
Quote from: BigTex on September 28, 2012, 03:54:41 PM
Not with Bradshaw, he threw 212 TDs and 210 INTs, that would be no where near acceptable for a "great" QB today.

The key word being "today".  In the 1970's, it was enough to carry the Steelers to 8 AFC Championships and 4 Super Bowl titles.  "Today", you won't find another QB that can make that happen.

But, since the subject was not how many TDs vs INTs were thrown, lets go back and review, shall we?

Quote from: me
The four Super Bowls are a testament to how well he can lead a team, particularly an offense.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,78256.msg956555.html#msg956555

Quote from: you
QB did not have the same importance (as a position or as an automatic team leader) back than as it does today
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,78256.msg956559.html#msg956559

Quote from: me
Where do you think that "importance" started?
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,78256.msg956579.html#msg956579

Leadership of an offense falls to the man calling the signals.  In the 1970s, the role of QB began to evolve into a greater leadership role thanks to men like Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, etc.  What you see today is a direct result of the way the game evolved through the late 60s and all of the 70s.  I know this because I'm old enough to remember watching those guys play and seeing the resultant evolution of the game.

Your posted stats have nothing to do with leadership, the game "today" notwithstanding.

Quote
Gannon didnt have a team of HOFers to carry him to the SBs like Bradshaw did.

No, not a whole team, just two (Jerry Rice, Rod Woodson).  Brad Johnson had none and managed to win Super Bowl XXXVII and how did he do that?  On the field leadership and execution.  Orchestrating the talents and focus of 10 other individuals while doing his own job. 

Quote
Im not saying Gannon is better than Bradshaw or that Bradshaw wasnt a good QB

No, you're using Gannon as a degrading and diminishing element to bolster an argument that doesn't match reality.

Quote
but hes not the GOAT you think he is.

I've been a Steelers fan all of my life, I watched him play, I don't need you to tell me what I think - I watched and evaluated for myself.

Quote
Here is exactly what I mean by overrated, the NFL network ranked Bradshaw the 50th best player of all-time, the "fans" ranked him 22nd. I think Bradshaw is a lot closer to the 50th best player than the 22nd. Therefore I think he is overrated.

Personal observation, personal perspective, lifelong fan of the game, see above post.
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A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

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Offline wasp69

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2012, 10:03:55 AM »
Quote from: BigTex on September 28, 2012, 04:56:36 PM
Thats laughable, he compares favorably to most the greats before him. Hes got 4 MVPs

Quote from: Big Tex
the MVP doesnt prove hes great Rich Gannon won an MVP.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,78256.msg956559.html#msg956559

Interesting....  Are you familiar with the term "cognitive dissonance"?
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline BigTex

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2012, 10:16:55 AM »
Quote from: wasp69 on October 01, 2012, 09:58:42 AM
I've been a Steelers fan all of my life



Steelers fan butt hurt because everyone doesnt worship the bald god, nothing to see here
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline wasp69

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2012, 10:19:39 AM »
Quote from: BigTex on October 01, 2012, 10:16:55 AM


Steelers fan butt hurt because everyone doesnt worship the bald god, nothing to see here

 :whatever:

Pathetic, Tex, really pathetic.  How old are you, 12?
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline BigTex

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2012, 10:26:45 AM »
Quote from: wasp69 on October 01, 2012, 10:19:39 AM
:whatever:

Pathetic, Tex, really pathetic.  How old are you, 12?

You are the pathetic one trying tooth and nail to defend your boy from being called overrated, which I have already proved he is because the fans rank Bradshaw MUCH higher than the NFL analysts
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline wasp69

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2012, 10:38:05 AM »
Quote from: BigTex on October 01, 2012, 10:26:45 AM
You are the pathetic one trying tooth and nail to defend your boy from being called overrated, which I have already proved he is because the fans rank Bradshaw MUCH higher than the NFL analysts

Are you kidding?  Two polls prove your point?  Not the actual history, results, etc?  

ETA:  Nevermind, you're a Dallas fan, I now know the root of your criticism...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 12:19:44 PM by wasp69 »
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline BigTex

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2012, 08:12:08 AM »
Quote from: wasp69 on October 01, 2012, 10:38:05 AM
Are you kidding?  Two polls prove your point?  Not the actual history, results, etc? 

There you go again... you clearly have no clue what overrated means
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline Lacarnut

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2012, 10:15:18 AM »
Quote from: BigTex on October 02, 2012, 08:12:08 AM
There you go again... you clearly have no clue what overrated means

And you have never seen him play except on replays. That is a fact and way before your time, Junior. Kinda pathetic with your biased analysis. Next you will be telling us that Romo is better.
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Offline BigTex

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2012, 10:26:05 AM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on October 02, 2012, 10:15:18 AM
And you have never seen him play except on replays. That is a fact and way before your time, Junior. Kinda pathetic with your biased analysis. Next you will be telling us that Romo is better.

Right, a life long Steeler fan who idol was Terry Bradshaw is clearly unbiased. Grumpy old men overrating old palyers talking about the good old days. Dont break a hip gramps.
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline wasp69

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2012, 10:29:06 AM »
Quote from: BigTex on October 02, 2012, 08:12:08 AM
There you go again... you clearly have no clue what overrated means

Quote from: me
Nevermind, you're a Dallas fan, I now know the root of your criticism...
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,78256.msg957792.html#msg957792
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline wasp69

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2012, 10:33:59 AM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on October 02, 2012, 10:15:18 AM
And you have never seen him play except on replays. That is a fact and way before your time, Junior. Kinda pathetic with your biased analysis.

Don't you just love children when they think they know everything?   Nothing is quite as charming, is it?

:whatever:

Quote
Next you will be telling us that Romo is better.

Yeah, no shit.  Talk about overrated...

« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 10:54:34 AM by wasp69 »
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline wasp69

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2012, 10:45:03 AM »
Quote from: BigTex on October 02, 2012, 10:26:05 AM
Right, a life long Steeler fan who idol was Terry Bradshaw is clearly unbiased.

My idol?  Where did you pick that up, boy?  Terry Bradshaw is no idol to me, he's just a hell of a lot better than what you think.

And bias?  What bias?  I actually watched the 70s Steelers play, you didn't.  I have experience and perspective.  You have two polls that mean about jack shit when it comes to history and reality but I'm somehow biased?  A butt-hurt Dallas fan criticizing a team he's never watched play isn't?

Sure, kid, whatever you say....

Quote
Grumpy old men overrating old palyers talking about the good old days. Dont break a hip gramps.



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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Lacarnut

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Re: How about those Bronco's?
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2012, 10:55:16 AM »
Quote from: wasp69 on October 02, 2012, 10:33:59 AM
Don't you just love children when they think they know everything?   Nothing is quite as charming, is it?

:whatever:

Yeah, no shit.  Talk about overrated...

Bradshaw is rated higher than Staubach. Talk about an overated QB that only won 2 SB while Terry won 4

Romo will never win a SB cause he chokes in Dec and Jan. His record in those two months is 17 wins and 17 losses. Last night was a pathetic showing.
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