Jeff Tiedrich has a message about Critical Race Theory

[dutch508]

Star Member StarfishSaver (16,686 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215554276

Jeff Tiedrich has a message about Critical Race Theory

pro tip: if your definition of critical race theory includes the words 'marxism,' 'socialism,' 'woke' or 'cancel,' you are an unserious idiot who needs to sit the f*ck down

Jeff Tiedrich is a political blogger, musician and a graphics designer popularly known for his unhealthy obsession with the United States President, Donald J. Trump. He has also been a left-wing journalist for the fast rising semi-satirical website, The Smirking Chimp since year 2000.

 

Caliman73 (8,016 posts)

4. I can already see the responses.

Right wingers accusing Tiedrich of trying to "silence" them or shame them because he "doesn't want to hear the truth".

If I want to debate and debunk Einstein's Theory of General Relativity and I don't understand basic concepts in Physics, then I need to shut the **** up and learn rather than try to put my stupid opinion out there against scholarly ideas derived by research and supported by evidence.

JackintheGreen (2,004 posts)

6. Tiedrich knows better

CRT developed out of critical theory which was developed out of the Frankfurt School which was decidedly Marxist in orientation.

That said, his rule of thumb is sadly correct. And since I mentioned Marxism, I guess suppose I should sit the **** down.

Star Member StarfishSaver (16,686 posts)

8. You parrotted the right wing talking point just like Heritage Foundation framed it

Nicely done - if your purpose is to mischaracterize and mislead, that is.

Perhaps you should take your advice.

JackintheGreen (2,004 posts)

9. No, I don't think I will

Your response is so untethered from the history of social theory. While Derrick Bell, for one, may have disavowed any direct genealogy, referencing instead the likes of DuBois and Bunche, Crenshaw is quite specific in her description of CRT being a response to critical legal studies, which had unapologetically Marxist theorists (among other strains). American CRT, specifically, was more rooted in American thinkers (see Bell’s disavowal), but many of the thinkers Bell cites as his influences were themselves immersed in Marxism: Bayard Rustin, Du Bois, Richard Wright, etc. Non-theorist contemporaries in the 70s, too, we’re deeply influenced by Marxist thought (for example, Amiri Baraka née Leroi Jones).

Do let me know if I am mischaracterizing.

 

Star Member StarfishSaver (16,686 posts)

11. Yes, you are mischaracterizing it

And we both know it.

Among other things, the fact that some CR theorists identified great thinkers who were Communists or Marxists as among the many people who influenced their scholarship does not mean that CRT "developed out of critical theory which was developed out of the Frankfurt School which was decidedly Marxist in orientation," by which you clearly meant to imply - as the Heritage Foundation, Ted Cruz and their ilk do - that Critical Race Theory is direct related to Marxism.

Throwing around a supposedly erudite explanation of the "connection" between CRT and Marxism wrapped in academic sounding terms, as Ted Cruz has been doing the past few days (in language very similar to that your post) might fool some people, but I see right through it.

JackintheGreen (2,004 posts)

12. I see what's happening here

We’re talking past each other, and it’s my fault.

By drawing the line “crt developed out of critical theory…etc” you assumed I was drawing a straight line from Marx to crt via the Frankfurt school. I was not, and I was undone by poor word choice. However, it is absurd to argue that the lines of theory and practice developed by critical law studies and crt - to say nothing of civil right activism - were not influenced by (later) Marxist critiques. The “supposedly erudite explanation” you complain about above is also called “history,” or rather a description of things that happened and for which we have clear and ample evidence of. Read Bell. Read Crenshaw. Read Delgado. Hell, read Wright, DuBois, and Bunche.

Ok, that was needlessly snarky.

But we can at least agree that Cruz and his ilk are all twats. Just because they misuse and mischaracterize things that actually happened (or thinkers who influenced other thinkers) doesn’t mean they didn’t.

Star Member StarfishSaver (16,686 posts)

13. Gotcha

But considering most academics in the social sciences or liberal arts has likely been influenced to some degree by great thinkers who were at some point in their lives Marxists or Communists, injecting "Marxism" into any discussion of Critical Race Theory - especially when done by racists like Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson - has only one purpose: to mischaracterize it as something it is not and to convince uniformed people that it's something foreign, suspect and dangerous instead of an honest attempt to present a more honest and accurate version of American history, law, society, and culture.

And yes, that was snarky. I've not only read all of those scholars and taught their readings in my own classes, I studied under one of them, and have known some of them personally, including two who are/were close personal friends.

 

JackintheGreen (2,004 posts)

15. Phew...

I also teach those scholars in my classes, though I have not studied under any of them. My field is postcolonialism, which undoubtedly shades my perception to see echoes of Marxism everywhere. Which I still maintain they are. But we agree that the *use* of the Marxist bogeyman by racists is as you describe. But my belief is that we cannot concede this ground to them. I am not a Marxist, but I understand the appeal of Marxist theory and see it’s utility in doing what theory does. The right cannot be allowed to colonize the terms Marxist/Marxism and evacuate them of their meaning, lest scholars lose useful tools. This is why tweets like Tiedrich’s annoy me. He’s not wrong (as I said in my first response), but he concedes ground to racists and other useful idiots that harms theory.

Star Member StarfishSaver (16,686 posts)

17. How does calling out racists for calling CRT "Marxist" concede ground to them?

druidity33 (5,492 posts)

23. "Marxist" and "Marxism" aren't dirty words...

and Marxist theory in particular isn't "Bad". I think that was what the "ceding ground" comment was about maybe?

FBaggins (21,931 posts)

24. Aaaand... there it is

There's no question that many on the right will use the label as a kudgel to beat Democrats over the head...

The problem is that there are plenty of Democrats who would explicitly reject Marxism ( ) but see worthwhile aspects of CRT (or at least aspects that some associate with CRT) that they don't want thrown out with the bath water... while there are simultaneously some on the farther left end of the spectrum who will happily say "yeah... it's Marxism and there isn't a problem with that".

As long as the second group exists - we can't just argue about the use of the label.

Same thing with "defund". Plenty of Democrats had entirely rational theories on what they meant when they said it... but we had little success in getting the public to accept that framing when the right could just pull up a video of a crowd booing the mayor of Minneapolis when he simply wouldn't commit to getting rid of all police.

Star Member StarfishSaver (16,686 posts)

19. Critical Race Theory has been around for more than 40 years

And it's not the only area of Critical Theory that is taught and studied.

The problem for the right wing - and obviously some on the left - is not critical theory but race, period. This attack is just another attempt to shut Black voices up, advance the notions of white victimization and distract from and derail attempts to address systemic racism in America.

It's really sad that you not only bought this BS but are trying to sell it.

 

Beastly Boy (3,264 posts)

14. That's an awful lot of extra steps between CRT and Marxism.

Perhaps we should also mention that Marx was influenced by Adam Smith who was influenced by John Locke, who was the founder of classical liberalism, which in turn is at the foundation of market capitalism. So i guess CRT at its core is all about market capitalism,

It is also worth mentioning that the social theory developed by the Frankfurt School turns out to not be Marxist at all, and that critical theory is not defined by the Frankfurt School, and Critical Race Theory is one of many applications of critical theory out there, each pursuing different areas of research that are not necessarily connected.

JackintheGreen (2,004 posts)

16. Erm...I'd like to see your work on this claim

It is also worth mentioning that the social theory developed by the Frankfurt School turns out to not be Marxist at all, and that critical theory is not defined by the Frankfurt School


The Institute for Social Research was endowed explicitly by Felix Weil to develop the study of Marxism in Germany, and the nazis closed it ten years later for pretty much the same reason.

I accept everything else in that sentence. It’s the other side of the same coin I was so inelegantly trying to describe.

Permanut (3,202 posts)

25. New wrinkle..

heard today on Bible thumper Trump cult talk radio, that "wokism" is actually a religion. We get a new twist of talking points every day.

Star Member IronLionZion (33,273 posts)

27. The "we can't erase history" folks love erasing things they don't like from history

 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

So many people ashamed to admit who they are.

[SVPete]

So there are zero reasons for me to give a shit about what Jeff Tiedrich says, even though I would not use buzz words or irrelevancies in describing CRT.

[ADsOutburst]

Caliman73 (8,016 posts)

4. I can already see the responses.

Right wingers accusing Tiedrich of trying to "silence" them or shame them because he "doesn't want to hear the truth".

If I want to debate and debunk Einstein's Theory of General Relativity and I don't understand basic concepts in Physics, then I need to shut the **** up and learn rather than try to put my stupid opinion out there against scholarly ideas derived by research and supported by evidence.

If you equate CRT with Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, perhaps it is you who are the unserious idiot who need to sit the **** down.

druidity33 (5,492 posts)

23. "Marxist" and "Marxism" aren't dirty words...

and Marxist theory in particular isn't "Bad". I think that was what the "ceding ground" comment was about maybe?

Racist, sexist, reactionary against capitalism...

Yes, I definitely think Marx(-ism)/(-ist) should have some negative connotations, and that's without getting into his discredited ideas you call "theory".

[Ralph Wiggum]

So there are zero reasons for me to give a shit about what Jeff Tiedrich says, even though I would not use buzz words or irrelevancies in describing CRT.

Essentially describes my thoughts.

Jag-offs who were part of the "Resistance" gain weirdo cult status on that cesspool of Twitter.  They just admire and adore anyone who hated Trump.

Speaking of which, has anyone ever bothered to check out that lunatic "influential blogger" Palmer Report recently? 

[Old n Grumpy]

Just another left wing hair farmer whose opinions stink like a pile of crap.

[thundley4]

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

[USA4ME]

A blogger who can play music, does graphic design, and has TDS, and these numbskulls hang on his every word as if he has a lick of sense, which he obviously doesn’t. I find it comical who these lefty dimwits hang their hat on in order to feel good about themselves.

.

[DUmpsterDiver]

Dear DUmb$hits, try your crt idiocy around here an you may find a cathode ray tube up your backside.  Facking woketards...send them to Iran to wake up.

[SVPete]

Dear DUmb$hits, try your crt idiocy around here an you may find a cathode ray tube up your backside.  Facking woketards...send them to Iran to wake up.

Don't discharge the anode. They'll get a charge out of it.