Car Accidents/Insurance/Repairs

[Chris_]

By all means exert your Rights. Even if exerting your rights costs 3 times as much as just fixing the damage on your own but by golly you didn't let anyone push you around you sure showed them who is boss. :whatever:

Doesn't cost me a freaking dime.

[jendf]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

That is who I have as well. So far, the process has been painless. *knocks on wood*

[RobJohnson]

.

I have no idea where it is I am losing you in this conversation, but let's try again.   The preferred shop list is a list that insurance carrier puts together of autobody shops in the state that pass pretty strict checklist of standards.   If the claimant is not happy with the repairs, the insurance carrier will guarantee the repairs will be done again so they meet industry standards for repair.    As I stated previously, getting an autobody shop who has completed pretty piss poor repairs to your vehicle to try to make it right can be a futile attempt.  Accordingly, it's a nice guarantee to have. 

You can do whatever you want with your damaged vehicle -- leave it in your garage, or sell it for parts.  However, you want to file a claim then a licensed appraiser has to submit an appraisal of the damage -- that is pretty much defined in each state's regulations.   The appraiser will write for what he can visually inspect so unless it is on a lift, or is in the process of being broken down by the shop, you are limited to what is visible for your appraisal amount.  Unless the damage is minor, then supplemental appraisal are extremely common pratice.  Now it would be nice to whine and point the finger at the insurance carrier as "dicking" their claimants around, but 9 out of 10 times the hold up is due to the autobody shop letting the car sit there for a week or so before they get to it, then they call the appraiser for the supplement, then they have to order the parts.....  but but it's the adjuster that is making the claimant wait.    Appraisers aren't sitting by the phone waiting for the shop to call.   They make their rounds, and if you call on Tuesday and they were just in your area the day before, then you are waiting until they are in your area again to get out there to write the supplement.   It's a circus, but it's the adjuster who gets the whining calls.   

The whole total loss process?   sometimes it is an easy call, the appraiser starts writing and once you reach that dollar figure that totals it then they are done, call it a day.  Sometimes it isn't that simple, and I can see hail damage being a difficult one.   It really is state reg dependent on what does and does not total a vehicle, so the insurance carrier has very little to do with that.  Break down fees, storage, etc.  -- it is all a part of the process, and believe me, our SIU (special investigation units) have piles of files with sleazy autobody shop antics on damage to vehicles on break downs.    You would be amazed at the damage that is found when these shops break down a vehicle.   

Diminished value is something that is allowed in a handful of states.   It usually is a % of the appraisal as a payout.   You really don't see too much of it anymore.     

I am adjuster -- or was an adjuster prior to having children.   The important part of my job was the injury claim (s).  The property damage claim was just the total PIA paper pushing portion.    I am hardly green to the process, quite the opposite.   

If you want to keep repeating yourself rather then answer my questions that is fine.

So you were not a property damage adjuster? Or did you just not work out in the field?
Then I doubt you actually seen the things I am talking about. I can understand that. Alot has changed in six years, that is for sure.

I know how an estimate works, including tear down, etc...remember when everyone used to think they needed to get two estimates? On thousands of repairs, my estimate was the only one used, either by the vehcile owner, or the insurance company. Like I said, every state is different. I also was very well trusted in the community and industry. We did the repair right and that often meant a more expensive repair then the "other guys"

I have never installed or had any trouble getting paid for anything but OEM parts either, but that is another topic. I am sure you know adjsuters that write "after market parts"

This discussion is wearing me out, and is too much like work....

[RobJohnson]

That is nice you throw the appraisal in the trash.   Let's place a nice twist on this.   Say joe consumer needs some autobody work done on his vehicle that he will pay for out of pocket -- no insurance companies involved.   He should 100% trust the guy at the autobody shop (or mechanic for that matter) that whatever is written on the "estimate" as final.    We all know that autobody shops and mechanics are the most ethical profession around, and we should never questions and always accept their estimates and labor rates.    <---- seriously?!!!!     A licensed appraiser can only write for visual damage.   If the vehice is broken down in front of him he can keep writing.   You find more damage, you call for a supplemental appraisal.   This isn't rocket science.   

Like I said, there are good appraisers out there, that simply write and agree with the shop's opinion. Many simply copy the shop's sheet! Just like if I know the appriser is good, I will input the same lines on my sheet and double check everything...in most states the estimate has to be on the shop's letterhead for a proper repair authorization...of course this is not always obeyed.

An insurance guy calling a mechanical or body shop unethical? Pot? Kettle?  Let's not go there! I think most consumers are able to shop around and find a shop they are comfortable with, mechanical or body.....in fact, I have a feeling these insurance company "labor surveys" are what keeps the rates down and the fraud up! Body rates are lets say $38...and mechanical at the same deaership might be $80...why is this? Most guys I know set their own rates and have no troubles getting paid...profit is a good thing!

Spend one day with a contracted appraiser, and he can tell you about the sleaze of the sleaze with regard to shops and mechanics.     The insurance carrier I worked for had many dealers on their preferred list, and those dealers accepted industry standard rate for repairs (which 6 years ago was $32/hour for domestic vehicles).     An appraiser that copies the estimate of an autobody shop should lose his license, and I would have no problem making that call. 

There is a reason why insurance premiums are so high.   

Six years ago my shop rate was $50 in a small midwest town and the PCP set by State Farm was $48...how can you do work for $32 an hour and still pay your help.....I would of liked to inspected some of those repairs and see just what all those shops were really doing for their "insurance partners"....I love to audit final bills!

So now you want to blame body shops for insurance premiums being high? Whatever. Did you ever think the value of the cars have gone up on top of the risk?

The appraiser would copy my estimate as a guide, as my estimates were always very complete...its easier to input the numeric codes of each line (I had both ADP and Mitchell) then to try and figure out your handwritten notes when they got back to the office....I would have it all torn down so they could verify, etc....

I simply charged for what we repaired and did not charge for what we did not do....

If a customer can't trust the shop without an adjuster with them, why would they want to take the car there for repairs? 

[RobJohnson]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

[RobJohnson]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

That is who I have as well. So far, the process has been painless. *knocks on wood*

Glad to hear it!

Minor damage results in a simple claim!

You shouldn't have any trouble.

[Miss Mia]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

And then you have Allstate owning Sterling Collision Centers and forcing all their claims through their shops.

[formerlurker]

.

I have no idea where it is I am losing you in this conversation, but let's try again.   The preferred shop list is a list that insurance carrier puts together of autobody shops in the state that pass pretty strict checklist of standards.   If the claimant is not happy with the repairs, the insurance carrier will guarantee the repairs will be done again so they meet industry standards for repair.    As I stated previously, getting an autobody shop who has completed pretty piss poor repairs to your vehicle to try to make it right can be a futile attempt.  Accordingly, it's a nice guarantee to have. 

You can do whatever you want with your damaged vehicle -- leave it in your garage, or sell it for parts.  However, you want to file a claim then a licensed appraiser has to submit an appraisal of the damage -- that is pretty much defined in each state's regulations.   The appraiser will write for what he can visually inspect so unless it is on a lift, or is in the process of being broken down by the shop, you are limited to what is visible for your appraisal amount.  Unless the damage is minor, then supplemental appraisal are extremely common pratice.  Now it would be nice to whine and point the finger at the insurance carrier as "dicking" their claimants around, but 9 out of 10 times the hold up is due to the autobody shop letting the car sit there for a week or so before they get to it, then they call the appraiser for the supplement, then they have to order the parts.....  but but it's the adjuster that is making the claimant wait.    Appraisers aren't sitting by the phone waiting for the shop to call.   They make their rounds, and if you call on Tuesday and they were just in your area the day before, then you are waiting until they are in your area again to get out there to write the supplement.   It's a circus, but it's the adjuster who gets the whining calls.   

The whole total loss process?   sometimes it is an easy call, the appraiser starts writing and once you reach that dollar figure that totals it then they are done, call it a day.  Sometimes it isn't that simple, and I can see hail damage being a difficult one.   It really is state reg dependent on what does and does not total a vehicle, so the insurance carrier has very little to do with that.  Break down fees, storage, etc.  -- it is all a part of the process, and believe me, our SIU (special investigation units) have piles of files with sleazy autobody shop antics on damage to vehicles on break downs.    You would be amazed at the damage that is found when these shops break down a vehicle.   

Diminished value is something that is allowed in a handful of states.   It usually is a % of the appraisal as a payout.   You really don't see too much of it anymore.     

I am adjuster -- or was an adjuster prior to having children.   The important part of my job was the injury claim (s).  The property damage claim was just the total PIA paper pushing portion.    I am hardly green to the process, quite the opposite.   

If you want to keep repeating yourself rather then answer my questions that is fine.

So you were not a property damage adjuster? Or did you just not work out in the field?
Then I doubt you actually seen the things I am talking about. I can understand that. Alot has changed in six years, that is for sure.

I know how an estimate works, including tear down, etc...remember when everyone used to think they needed to get two estimates? On thousands of repairs, my estimate was the only one used, either by the vehcile owner, or the insurance company. Like I said, every state is different. I also was very well trusted in the community and industry. We did the repair right and that often meant a more expensive repair then the "other guys"

I have never installed or had any trouble getting paid for anything but OEM parts either, but that is another topic. I am sure you know adjsuters that write "after market parts"

This discussion is wearing me out, and is too much like work....

Well if you want to pay more for your insurance premiums than your car payment then by all means -- the appraiser should always write for OEM.         

Huge difference between salvage yard and aftermarket parts also  -- the former is not written for on a two year old vehicle (this is from your other post).   No idea what everyone is smoking in IL, but there is a profession that needs to be overhauled in your state.

Oh and I was a PD adjuster, which is the bottom of the totem pole in the insurance world.   I  moved on to casualty adjuster, which is the front line so to speak.    Different worlds, but we get the process.   We are the ones with checkbook, so it is kind of a requirement of the job.   


ETA:   Salvage yard part actually equating to a used OEM by the way. 

[formerlurker]

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

They spend a lot of time in court?   for property damage claims?   


 



 

[formerlurker]

That is nice you throw the appraisal in the trash.   Let's place a nice twist on this.   Say joe consumer needs some autobody work done on his vehicle that he will pay for out of pocket -- no insurance companies involved.   He should 100% trust the guy at the autobody shop (or mechanic for that matter) that whatever is written on the "estimate" as final.    We all know that autobody shops and mechanics are the most ethical profession around, and we should never questions and always accept their estimates and labor rates.    <---- seriously?!!!!     A licensed appraiser can only write for visual damage.   If the vehice is broken down in front of him he can keep writing.   You find more damage, you call for a supplemental appraisal.   This isn't rocket science.   

Like I said, there are good appraisers out there, that simply write and agree with the shop's opinion. Many simply copy the shop's sheet! Just like if I know the appriser is good, I will input the same lines on my sheet and double check everything...in most states the estimate has to be on the shop's letterhead for a proper repair authorization...of course this is not always obeyed.

An insurance guy calling a mechanical or body shop unethical? Pot? Kettle?  Let's not go there! I think most consumers are able to shop around and find a shop they are comfortable with, mechanical or body.....in fact, I have a feeling these insurance company "labor surveys" are what keeps the rates down and the fraud up! Body rates are lets say $38...and mechanical at the same deaership might be $80...why is this? Most guys I know set their own rates and have no troubles getting paid...profit is a good thing!

Spend one day with a contracted appraiser, and he can tell you about the sleaze of the sleaze with regard to shops and mechanics.     The insurance carrier I worked for had many dealers on their preferred list, and those dealers accepted industry standard rate for repairs (which 6 years ago was $32/hour for domestic vehicles).     An appraiser that copies the estimate of an autobody shop should lose his license, and I would have no problem making that call. 

There is a reason why insurance premiums are so high.   

Six years ago my shop rate was $50 in a small midwest town and the PCP set by State Farm was $48...how can you do work for $32 an hour and still pay your help.....I would of liked to inspected some of those repairs and see just what all those shops were really doing for their "insurance partners"....I love to audit final bills!

So now you want to blame body shops for insurance premiums being high? Whatever. Did you ever think the value of the cars have gone up on top of the risk?

The appraiser would copy my estimate as a guide, as my estimates were always very complete...its easier to input the numeric codes of each line (I had both ADP and Mitchell) then to try and figure out your handwritten notes when they got back to the office....I would have it all torn down so they could verify, etc....

I simply charged for what we repaired and did not charge for what we did not do....

If a customer can't trust the shop without an adjuster with them, why would they want to take the car there for repairs? 

I think I would have laughed myself sick if I got a a/b shop demanding $50/hour for labor (as would the appraiser).   The shops in MA actually all took that rate, again it was a few years back and I am sure it has increased since then

Six years ago in MA appraisers had a nice computer program on their laptops which would require them to designate the area of the vehicle damaged and the program would spit out the repair list, search and locate the parts and pricing, and provide a generous allotment for labor time to repair the vehicle.   No need to take any estimate from an autobody shop, no matter how detailed it was thanks.  I guess the appraisers in IL still travel around in a horse and buggy too.   

I  am glad you are an honest autobody shop, however autobody shops are hardly strong armed to be on insurance carrier's preferred list, they don't even have to apply.....and if you feel that the insurance carrier uses mob tactics then pick up the phone and call  their boss -- your state's insurance commissioner, who I can assure you is most unforgiving for carriers who process claims in bad faith and in an unethical manner. 

[formerlurker]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

And then you have Allstate owning Sterling Collision Centers and forcing all their claims through their shops.

I would want to see the stats on repairs for their customers before commenting if this is a bad idea to purchase collision centers.    If the purchase equates to quicker turnaround times on repairs then they did it for customer service reasons, and certainly as a good business decision as they are taking another piece of the auto accident market.  I can't fault them for that.

That said, they must proceed with caution on how they present these centers to claimants.  Forcing them to their shop is certainly a conflict that could and would be deemed as bad faith business practices.    In that regard I don't know if it is worth the risk. 

[Miss Mia]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

And then you have Allstate owning Sterling Collision Centers and forcing all their claims through their shops.

I would want to see the stats on repairs for their customers before commenting if this is a bad idea to purchase collision centers.    If the purchase equates to quicker turnaround times on repairs then they did it for customer service reasons, and certainly as a good business decision as they are taking another piece of the auto accident market.  I can't fault them for that.

That said, they must proceed with caution on how they present these centers to claimants.  Forcing them to their shop is certainly a conflict that could and would be deemed as bad faith business practices.    In that regard I don't know if it is worth the risk. 

Look up the case, it went to the Texas Supreme Court and was decided this year.  Allstate is going to have to sell Sterling, I believe.  It's been a month or two since I've seen a report on them.  That was the gist of the complaint, Allstate was forcing their customers to use Sterling for their repairs. 

[formerlurker]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

And then you have Allstate owning Sterling Collision Centers and forcing all their claims through their shops.

I would want to see the stats on repairs for their customers before commenting if this is a bad idea to purchase collision centers.    If the purchase equates to quicker turnaround times on repairs then they did it for customer service reasons, and certainly as a good business decision as they are taking another piece of the auto accident market.  I can't fault them for that.

That said, they must proceed with caution on how they present these centers to claimants.  Forcing them to their shop is certainly a conflict that could and would be deemed as bad faith business practices.    In that regard I don't know if it is worth the risk. 

Look up the case, it went to the Texas Supreme Court and was decided this year.  Allstate is going to have to sell Sterling, I believe.  It's been a month or two since I've seen a report on them.  That was the gist of the complaint, Allstate was forcing their customers to use Sterling for their repairs. 

Looks like some idiot VP got greedy or just plain stupid.   This is one of those when theory meets practice disasters that they should have learned about in business 101. 

I will look up the case though, thanks for the info. 

[RobJohnson]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

And then you have Allstate owning Sterling Collision Centers and forcing all their claims through their shops.

Very true! Hi5 for Miss Mia!

[RobJohnson]

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

They spend a lot of time in court?   for property damage claims?   


 



 

I have a feeling you never left the office.

State Farm was in a twenty year battle over aftermarket parts and consumer fraud.

Ever hear of Senator Trent Lott (R)......and Katrina?

[RobJohnson]

That is nice you throw the appraisal in the trash.   Let's place a nice twist on this.   Say joe consumer needs some autobody work done on his vehicle that he will pay for out of pocket -- no insurance companies involved.   He should 100% trust the guy at the autobody shop (or mechanic for that matter) that whatever is written on the "estimate" as final.    We all know that autobody shops and mechanics are the most ethical profession around, and we should never questions and always accept their estimates and labor rates.    <---- seriously?!!!!     A licensed appraiser can only write for visual damage.   If the vehice is broken down in front of him he can keep writing.   You find more damage, you call for a supplemental appraisal.   This isn't rocket science.   

Like I said, there are good appraisers out there, that simply write and agree with the shop's opinion. Many simply copy the shop's sheet! Just like if I know the appriser is good, I will input the same lines on my sheet and double check everything...in most states the estimate has to be on the shop's letterhead for a proper repair authorization...of course this is not always obeyed.

An insurance guy calling a mechanical or body shop unethical? Pot? Kettle?  Let's not go there! I think most consumers are able to shop around and find a shop they are comfortable with, mechanical or body.....in fact, I have a feeling these insurance company "labor surveys" are what keeps the rates down and the fraud up! Body rates are lets say $38...and mechanical at the same deaership might be $80...why is this? Most guys I know set their own rates and have no troubles getting paid...profit is a good thing!

Spend one day with a contracted appraiser, and he can tell you about the sleaze of the sleaze with regard to shops and mechanics.     The insurance carrier I worked for had many dealers on their preferred list, and those dealers accepted industry standard rate for repairs (which 6 years ago was $32/hour for domestic vehicles).     An appraiser that copies the estimate of an autobody shop should lose his license, and I would have no problem making that call. 

There is a reason why insurance premiums are so high.   

Six years ago my shop rate was $50 in a small midwest town and the PCP set by State Farm was $48...how can you do work for $32 an hour and still pay your help.....I would of liked to inspected some of those repairs and see just what all those shops were really doing for their "insurance partners"....I love to audit final bills!

So now you want to blame body shops for insurance premiums being high? Whatever. Did you ever think the value of the cars have gone up on top of the risk?

The appraiser would copy my estimate as a guide, as my estimates were always very complete...its easier to input the numeric codes of each line (I had both ADP and Mitchell) then to try and figure out your handwritten notes when they got back to the office....I would have it all torn down so they could verify, etc....

I simply charged for what we repaired and did not charge for what we did not do....

If a customer can't trust the shop without an adjuster with them, why would they want to take the car there for repairs? 

I think I would have laughed myself sick if I got a a/b shop demanding $50/hour for labor (as would the appraiser).   The shops in MA actually all took that rate, again it was a few years back and I am sure it has increased since then

Six years ago in MA appraisers had a nice computer program on their laptops which would require them to designate the area of the vehicle damaged and the program would spit out the repair list, search and locate the parts and pricing, and provide a generous allotment for labor time to repair the vehicle.   No need to take any estimate from an autobody shop, no matter how detailed it was thanks.  I guess the appraisers in IL still travel around in a horse and buggy too.   

I  am glad you are an honest autobody shop, however autobody shops are hardly strong armed to be on insurance carrier's preferred list, they don't even have to apply.....and if you feel that the insurance carrier uses mob tactics then pick up the phone and call  their boss -- your state's insurance commissioner, who I can assure you is most unforgiving for carriers who process claims in bad faith and in an unethical manner. 

It's alot higher then $50 now.

Laugh all you want...shops in Bloomington, IL (You know the home of State Farm, and others) are way above that as well now....what do you pay an electrical contractor, or plumbing contractor...ever taken a car to a mechanical shop?

It's all about Body Shop owners taking back control and running the shops like a business. Appraisers used to write "funny times" to make up for the low rate, but if you have never wrote an estimate, you would not know about this and the other things I am talking about.

As far as your comment about adjusters being back in the "horse and buggy days" once again you simply have no clue...these were guys from Crawford and Company, PDA and others, that had many cars to inspect in one day...and it was easier to write the sheet from the office then to fumble with a laptop in the car especially with the sun glare. On top of there is a little more to it then a computer that just "spits out" a repair list....LOL

Yes, there is an application process for more then one insurance company DRP (direct repair program) out there....I'm just not finding alot of truth within your posts.  In fact I know several guys from the MABA (MA Auto Body Association) that might enjoy reading your posts! In fact, last I checked Direct Repair Programs were still not legal in MA....so I am not sure what "insurance shops" you are talking about....

http://www.massautobody.org/

[Chris_]

I think I would have laughed myself sick if I got a a/b shop demanding $50/hour for labor (as would the appraiser).   The shops in MA actually all took that rate, again it was a few years back and I am sure it has increased since then

Six years ago in MA appraisers had a nice computer program on their laptops which would require them to designate the area of the vehicle damaged and the program would spit out the repair list, search and locate the parts and pricing, and provide a generous allotment for labor time to repair the vehicle.   No need to take any estimate from an autobody shop, no matter how detailed it was thanks.  I guess the appraisers in IL still travel around in a horse and buggy too.    :lmao:

I  am glad you are an honest autobody shop, however autobody shops are hardly strong armed to be on insurance carrier's preferred list, they don't even have to apply.....and if you feel that the insurance carrier uses mob tactics then pick up the phone and call  their boss -- your state's insurance commissioner, who I can assure you is most unforgiving for carriers who process claims in bad faith and in an unethical manner. 

It's alot higher then $50 now.

Laugh all you want...shops in Bloomington, IL (You know the home of State Farm, and others) are way above that as well now....what do you pay a plumber ro computer tech? $32 an hour?  :rotf:

It's all about Body Shop owners taking back control and running the shops like a business. Appraisers used to write "funny times" to make up for the low rate, but if you have never wrote an estimate, you would not know about this and the other things I am talking about.

Enjoy your day!

If you can find a body shop in Los Angeles that will bill for as little as $50 an hour, I will buy them, sight unseen, and bill at prevailing rates and retire a multi-millionaire in a year or 2.

[RobJohnson]

Well if you want to pay more for your insurance premiums than your car payment then by all means -- the appraiser should always write for OEM.         

Huge difference between salvage yard and aftermarket parts also  -- the former is not written for on a two year old vehicle (this is from your other post).   No idea what everyone is smoking in IL, but there is a profession that needs to be overhauled in your state.

So adjusters do try to save the insurance company money by writing the use of aftermarket, non-OEM parts, you know the ones made in China that have poor fit and corrosion resistance? The shop carries the liability if these parts fail. As long as the hood does not fly open due to weak spot welds when you are going down the highway, every thing should be ok right?

[Lacarnut]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

I take my car to the dealership for body repairs; that way I know they are not using shitty parts because they have to show me a detailed billing of original parts. BTW, if State Farm is ok. Who is better?

[RobJohnson]

My experience with insurance companies and adjusters has been a good one. My insurer is State Farm which may explain that. I think when you go with the best, you get good service. I have had several accidents and never had a problem with getting my vehicle fixed at a non-preferred body shop.   

I was a preferred shop for three carriers at a dealership....most of them do a good job....but when you won't play the game....its like dealing with the mob, and you soon find yourself kicked off. They direct repair programs want you to cut costs on "their repairs" and don't care how or where you make it up....that is the problem....

For example, I know a shop that would not use salvage yard parts on two year old cars...so guess what...off the program!

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

I take my car to the dealership for body repairs; that way I know they are not using shitty parts because they have to show me a detailed billing of original parts. BTW, if State Farm is ok. Who is better?

Good move with the dealership....it's always good to ask for that final bill. Some dealerships do use a/market parts...at the direction of the insurance company....or try to use, then the parts dont fit, which creates delays in the repair...

[RobJohnson]

and if you feel that the insurance carrier uses mob tactics then pick up the phone and call  their boss -- your state's insurance commissioner, who I can assure you is most unforgiving for carriers who process claims in bad faith and in an unethical manner. 

Now that is funny......most DOI's are full of ex-insurance company employees!

Hopefully everyone always has  smooth claims or repair processes....but if you ever have any questions or concerns, I am easy to find.

[formerlurker]

State Farm is ok....they have spent alot of time in court! They are pretty good about letting you take it where you want to have it fixed.

They spend a lot of time in court?   for property damage claims?   


 



 

I have a feeling you never left the office.

State Farm was in a twenty year battle over aftermarket parts and consumer fraud.

Ever hear of Senator Trent Lott (R)......and Katrina?

I testified in three insurance fraud cases, two of which sent the attorneys to jail.   

[formerlurker]

That is nice you throw the appraisal in the trash.   Let's place a nice twist on this.   Say joe consumer needs some autobody work done on his vehicle that he will pay for out of pocket -- no insurance companies involved.   He should 100% trust the guy at the autobody shop (or mechanic for that matter) that whatever is written on the "estimate" as final.    We all know that autobody shops and mechanics are the most ethical profession around, and we should never questions and always accept their estimates and labor rates.    <---- seriously?!!!!     A licensed appraiser can only write for visual damage.   If the vehice is broken down in front of him he can keep writing.   You find more damage, you call for a supplemental appraisal.   This isn't rocket science.   

Like I said, there are good appraisers out there, that simply write and agree with the shop's opinion. Many simply copy the shop's sheet! Just like if I know the appriser is good, I will input the same lines on my sheet and double check everything...in most states the estimate has to be on the shop's letterhead for a proper repair authorization...of course this is not always obeyed.

An insurance guy calling a mechanical or body shop unethical? Pot? Kettle?  Let's not go there! I think most consumers are able to shop around and find a shop they are comfortable with, mechanical or body.....in fact, I have a feeling these insurance company "labor surveys" are what keeps the rates down and the fraud up! Body rates are lets say $38...and mechanical at the same deaership might be $80...why is this? Most guys I know set their own rates and have no troubles getting paid...profit is a good thing!

Spend one day with a contracted appraiser, and he can tell you about the sleaze of the sleaze with regard to shops and mechanics.     The insurance carrier I worked for had many dealers on their preferred list, and those dealers accepted industry standard rate for repairs (which 6 years ago was $32/hour for domestic vehicles).     An appraiser that copies the estimate of an autobody shop should lose his license, and I would have no problem making that call. 

There is a reason why insurance premiums are so high.   

Six years ago my shop rate was $50 in a small midwest town and the PCP set by State Farm was $48...how can you do work for $32 an hour and still pay your help.....I would of liked to inspected some of those repairs and see just what all those shops were really doing for their "insurance partners"....I love to audit final bills!

So now you want to blame body shops for insurance premiums being high? Whatever. Did you ever think the value of the cars have gone up on top of the risk?

The appraiser would copy my estimate as a guide, as my estimates were always very complete...its easier to input the numeric codes of each line (I had both ADP and Mitchell) then to try and figure out your handwritten notes when they got back to the office....I would have it all torn down so they could verify, etc....

I simply charged for what we repaired and did not charge for what we did not do....

If a customer can't trust the shop without an adjuster with them, why would they want to take the car there for repairs? 

I think I would have laughed myself sick if I got a a/b shop demanding $50/hour for labor (as would the appraiser).   The shops in MA actually all took that rate, again it was a few years back and I am sure it has increased since then

Six years ago in MA appraisers had a nice computer program on their laptops which would require them to designate the area of the vehicle damaged and the program would spit out the repair list, search and locate the parts and pricing, and provide a generous allotment for labor time to repair the vehicle.   No need to take any estimate from an autobody shop, no matter how detailed it was thanks.  I guess the appraisers in IL still travel around in a horse and buggy too.   

I  am glad you are an honest autobody shop, however autobody shops are hardly strong armed to be on insurance carrier's preferred list, they don't even have to apply.....and if you feel that the insurance carrier uses mob tactics then pick up the phone and call  their boss -- your state's insurance commissioner, who I can assure you is most unforgiving for carriers who process claims in bad faith and in an unethical manner. 

It's alot higher then $50 now.

Laugh all you want...shops in Bloomington, IL (You know the home of State Farm, and others) are way above that as well now....what do you pay an electrical contractor, or plumbing contractor...ever taken a car to a mechanical shop?

It's all about Body Shop owners taking back control and running the shops like a business. Appraisers used to write "funny times" to make up for the low rate, but if you have never wrote an estimate, you would not know about this and the other things I am talking about.

As far as your comment about adjusters being back in the "horse and buggy days" once again you simply have no clue...these were guys from Crawford and Company, PDA and others, that had many cars to inspect in one day...and it was easier to write the sheet from the office then to fumble with a laptop in the car especially with the sun glare. On top of there is a little more to it then a computer that just "spits out" a repair list....LOL

Yes, there is an application process for more then one insurance company DRP (direct repair program) out there....I'm just not finding alot of truth within your posts.  In fact I know several guys from the MABA (MA Auto Body Association) that might enjoy reading your posts! In fact, last I checked Direct Repair Programs were still not legal in MA....so I am not sure what "insurance shops" you are talking about....

http://www.massautobody.org/

Again, RIF.   I never said or inferred that MA has insurance shops.  We provide a list of preferred shops, the claimant uses one on the list or not.  They sign direct payment, we pay them directly. 

From you link:

Preferred or referral repair shops represent the insurance company in both negotiations and the repair of the vehicle. They contract with insurance companies regarding the repairs, the costs and the repair procedures. The insurance company sets the rules and the repair shop simply follows them to keep the insurance company's costs down. But the cost reduction has to come from somewhere. It may affect the quality and thoroughness of the repair service and/or the quality and condition of the parts used. You have paid your insurance premiums with the expectation of receiving safe and proper repairs – not cheap repairs.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.   This is the biggest crock of scare tactic bullshit I have ever read.  The autobody shop does not work for the insurance carrier, and never at any time bows to them.   To be on the preferred list they agree to 1) repair vehicles in a timely fashion; 2) do it for the appraisal amount (meaning no hidden bullshit costs that an insurance carrier would never pay, gee -- an autobody shop would never do anything unethical would they in pricing....) and 3) the vehicles they repair must pass pretty strict standards when the carrier reinspects them (which they do).   This is a business.  They want a lot business from accidents, then they become a preferred shop.   No one is twisting their arm, and if they choose to "make up" profit by doing a piss poor job then they won't be staying on the preferred shop list long as their repairs will not pass reinspection AND the work there is guaranteed by the carrier, and the insurance carrier would not be too pleased with paying appraisals twice.     

Hmmm, Crawford and Company is an independent appraisal firm -- I thought you said these are all insurance carrier hacks?   I am so confused.    They carbon copy an estimate then they should lose their license, and you should be reporting them.   You, or someone in your shop, should be a licensed appraiser also.   Play with fire long enough, screw over the wrong person, and then you risk kissing it goodbye.

From your state's insurance commissioner's site:

May I Choose My Own Repair Shop?
Yes. You are not required to use your company's suggested repair shop. However, if your repair shop charges more than the company's suggested shop, you may have to pay the difference.

Can My Insurance Company Deduct for "Betterment"?
Yes. If your vehicle is being repaired with newer parts, your company doesn't have to pay for the "betterment." For example, if your vehicle's muffler is five years old, your insurance company would have to replace it with a five-year old muffler. If a five-year old muffler can't be found, the repair shop could use a new muffler, but you'd have to pay the difference.

Can My Insurance Company Deduct for Things Like Unrepaired Damage or Rust?
Yes. Your insurance company may deduct an unlimited amount from the value if your vehicle has old, unrepaired collision damages. They may also deduct an additional amount up to $500.00 for wear and tear, missing parts and rust. Your company must itemize and specify the dollar amounts of those deductions.

Do I Have to Accept Replacement Crash Parts?
No. Although insurance companies aren't required to use original equipment manufacturer (OEM) replacement parts, such as GM or Ford, you have the final choice of which parts will be used to fix your vehicle. However, if your company wants to use non-OEM parts, and you request more expensive OEM parts, you may have to pay the difference.

 http://www.idfpr.com/DOI/autoinsurance/auto_own_claim.asp

Oh my.   I guess everyone is out to screw the poor autobody shop and claimant aren't they? 

 

[formerlurker]

Well if you want to pay more for your insurance premiums than your car payment then by all means -- the appraiser should always write for OEM.         

Huge difference between salvage yard and aftermarket parts also  -- the former is not written for on a two year old vehicle (this is from your other post).   No idea what everyone is smoking in IL, but there is a profession that needs to be overhauled in your state.

So adjusters do try to save the insurance company money by writing the use of aftermarket, non-OEM parts, you know the ones made in China that have poor fit and corrosion resistance? The shop carries the liability if these parts fail. As long as the hood does not fly open due to weak spot welds when you are going down the highway, every thing should be ok right?

Same along the lines of generic Rx drugs rights?   Sorry, unless the vehicle is a year or less old then aftermarket it is unless it is a safety item.   Like health insurance, you could not afford auto insurance if OEM parts were written for as standard.   

[Miss Mia]

“Good Hands” Slapped — US Supreme Court Tells Allstate “Nay”
-snip-

The district court decision found that Allstate actively referred unsuspecting claimants to its Sterling shops — even when those shops were providing poor service and some were given failing marks by Allstate’s own surveys.   Yet, Allstate had a financial interest in making Sterling profitable, so claims representatives continued to shove insureds and third parties to the Sterling shops, many of whom naively patronized the collision repair facilities on Allstate’s recommendation.  As a result, the court had no trouble appreciating the Texas Legislature’s concerns and desire to protect consumers.

-snip-