Trip - You and Yellowstone

[Trip]

Such as perturbations in planetary orbits?

Here's a 1983 article: Washington Post: Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered!

or in 2008: Scientists Discovery Solar System's Mystery "Planet X"

Video: Interview of Dr Robert S Harrington, U.S. Naval Observatory

Or a video by 2012 Doomsdayers:  "2012 : How To Survive"

There are enormous numbers of ancient Sumerian depictions of winged disks. These certainly do make one wonder what they're intended to represent: some sort of planet in the skies with wink-like tails from illumination by the sun, as with a comet, creating representations like "red dragon" or "winged disk" or the image of a planet I posted above,  or rather alien vehicles, as some would claim.

[Trip]

I apologize in advance to everyone here for my linking to another site. It's not intended as any disrespect here. I just am lacking the energy to reproduce that post here at this moment, and I really need to finally get something to eat today.

Yellowstone - "Two Events"

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=86429641&posted=1#post86429641


This data does get across what's been going on at Yellowstone during the 2004-2010 period of "Extraordinary Caldera Deformation", and why there is legitimate cause for serious concern now.

 

[Trip]

Small update:

Yesterday, Monday February 7th, a team of track drill rigs left Yellowstone. At trailer with two of these drill rigs aboard was headed S/E into Colorado. 

While they were mum on the nature of the work, there was at least two other rigs up there, they'd been there for "two weeks" and were now done their activities. That makes this focused geologic study quite intensive.

I am guessing they were drilling a number of bedrock wells to monitor groundwater in fractures. 

[Trip]

"Bison captured as they attempt to migrate
out of Yellowstone National Park"
Feb 2, 2011.

    More than 300 bison left the snowed-in park in recent days in search of food at lower elevations. They were turned back by park workers and state livestock agents to prevent any contact between bison and livestock, which could lead to the spread of brucellosis.


    The disease causes cattle, bison and some other animals to prematurely abort their young...

    But there have been no recorded cattle-to-bison brucellosis transmissions, and few cattle remain in the immediate vicinity of the park.


    Miami Herald/AP

Apparently the have these bison at a holding facility, and there's a court case pending to prohibit the slaughter of these bison.

I'm curious if this migration "in search of food" is common seasonally, or weather-dependent, or unusual for the bison in these numbers.

Obviously there's no really valid litmus to compare this to, to adjudge if some, or all of this migration is due to seismic activity in the park.

Curiously, another story on this bison migration dated January 21 indicates:

    In the last major migration in 2008, around 1,600 bison were killed in Yellowstone, The Associated Press reported.

    The Epoch Times

OF note, December of 2008 was a period of extraordinary seismic activity. (see my previous post "Two Events").


    image attached below provided by the Buffalo Field Campaign.
    Riders from Yellowstone National Park and the
    Montana Department of Livestock driving bison
    across a road near Yellowstone National Park,
    Feb. 1, 2011 near Corwin Springs, Mont.

[Ballygrl]

"Bison captured as they attempt to migrate
out of Yellowstone National Park"
Feb 2, 2011.

Oh UGH! the 1st thing I thought about when I saw that was animals being able to sense earthquakes before they happen.

[Evil_Conservative]

They probably left because of the weather and cold... unable to find enough food.  I think the bison migrating and trying to link this to the earthquakes is looking too far into things.

I checked the USGS again this morning, and it doesn't look like much of anything is going on there.  I forgot how to look at earthquakes in a single area over week or 30 days though.

[Trip]

They probably left because of the weather and cold... unable to find enough food.  I think the bison migrating and trying to link this to the earthquakes is looking too far into things.

I checked the USGS again this morning, and it doesn't look like much of anything is going on there.  I forgot how to look at earthquakes in a single area over week or 30 days though.

You're looking for just quakes.  Volcanoes going off aren't really about quakes at all, though they do happen. Things are not currently as calm as you imagine.

I've a friend who lives in Casper, Wyoming. His two dogs are repeatedly 'on him', glued to him lately. Generally a couple hours before a quake, they're regular alarms.

This works for other animals too. 

One geologist, Jim Berkland, actually looks over the "lost pet' sections of the newspapers and uses those to predict earthquakes.  He actually predictated a quake one day before the 1989 World Series in San Francisco.

As I indicated in my previous post, the mass migration from Yellowstone in 2008, was no coincidence. December and January were periods of massive uplift.

[Evil_Conservative]

You're looking for just quakes.  Volcanoes going off aren't really about quakes at all, though they do happen. Things are not currently as calm as you imagine.

I've a friend who lives in Casper, Wyoming. His two dogs are repeatedly 'on him', glued to him lately. Generally a couple hours before a quake, they're regular alarms.

This works for other animals too.  

One geologist, Jim Berkland, actually looks over the "lost pet' sections of the newspapers and uses those to predict earthquakes.  He actually predictated a quake one day before the 1989 World Series in San Francisco.

As I indicated in my previous post, the mass migration from Yellowstone in 2008, was no coincidence. December and January were periods of massive uplift.

It might not have anything to do with earthquakes.  My cat's fat ass is glued to me all the time.  Have yet to have an earthquake hit Las Vegas.  

I'm just speaking as a regular Joe citizen.  I think everyone is looking into the bison migration thing too much.  The volcano isn't going to erupt.  OR... is it possible that the volcano could have a somewhat small eruption and then go back to sleep?  Is that possible with "super volcanoes"?  Or will it just blow and cause mass devastation?

[Wineslob]

I'm not getting too worried about Yellowstone:

Is it true that the next caldera-forming eruption of Yellowstone is overdue?

No. First of all, one cannot present recurrence intervals based on only two values. It would be statistically meaningless. But for those who insist... let's do the arithmetic. The three eruptions occurred 2.1 million, 1.3 million and 0.64 million years ago. The two intervals are thus 0.8 and 0.66 million years, averaging to a 0.73 million-year interval. Again, the last eruption was 0.64 million years ago, implying that we are still about 90,000 years away from the time when we might consider calling Yellowstone overdue for another caldera-forming eruption. Nevertheless, we cannot discount the possibility of another such eruption occurring some time in the future, given Yellowstone's volcanic history and the continued presence of magma beneath the Yellowstone caldera.

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/faqsfactivity.html

[Trip]

I'm not getting too worried about Yellowstone:

 


http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/faqsfactivity.html

With all due respect, you're not worried about Yellowstone because of a generic form response?

I"m pretty sure the volcano doesn't read that.

How science works is based on accumulated data. In this case the abrupt change in seismic signatures, at the end of a six year long extraordinary period of caldera uplift  change (2004-2010), shows magma rushing to the surface in large volumes and exhibiting harmonic tremors.  Magma doesn't just go out for a Sunday drive; it's driven toward the surface.

[Evil_Conservative]

I read this on MSNBC (after doing a web search about the volcano at Yellowstone)

Not sure if we can copy & paste parts of the story, but here is the link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41494177/ns/technology_and_science-science/

A volcanologist said that a rising caldera doesn't mean an eruption is on the way.

[Trip]

I read this on MSNBC (after doing a web search about the volcano at Yellowstone)

Not sure if we can copy & paste parts of the story, but here is the link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41494177/ns/technology_and_science-science/

A volcanologist said that a rising caldera doesn't mean an eruption is on the way.

Of course the expansion of the magma chamber, and subsequent uplift of the caldera  (and way beyond it) does not indicate that there is an eruption on the way.

However the extraordinary uplift of that caldera over 6 years (2004-2010), followed by the repeated seismic signatures of harmonic tremors showing large volumes of magma rushing into shallower depths, and doing so all across the park, is something entirely different. These harmonic tremors are glaring precursors of every eruption.

Your article does not indicate those harmonic tremors, and from what it considers, it is reasonably true and accurate.  However that "from what it considers" is an enormous caveat given those harmonic tremors.

InSAR Image from 1996 - 2000 Source Publication

The above image is the level of data available prior to the 2004-2010 extraordinary uplift. Only in rare papers can the current inSAR mappings be found, and even then it is limited, cropped, to show only the direct area surrounding the caldera itself. The reason for this is the expansion (and rise) seen glaringly even in the above image 10 years beforehand, showing expansion  toward the west, and also the enormous rise to the south of the Yellowstone Park itself. Even more startling, the above image of 1995 - 2000 data, was pulled up on a geologist's screen in the 2009 "Naked Science: Super Volcano" documentary at the 00:44 second time mark, despite this being antiquated data - nearly a DECADE old!!!

We're not being given anything close to the full truth, and we have been denied that truth for some time now.

The fact is there is a rigid and vigorously pursued lock-down on information about Yellowstone right now from branches of government. I could state widespread details showing the extraordinary levels to which this lock-down is being pursued, and these  are nothing short of chilling, but in doing so I would be divulging entirely too much information involving my insider contacts.

There is no degree of speculation involved in stating that within 36 hours of those harmonic tremors , large teams of geophysicists and drill crews were already mobilized and at Yellowstone, working through some serious snow and environmental conditions, to gather an enormous volume of data on what's going on there.   

If any portion of this NEW data showed positive signs about what is even now ongoing at Yellowstone, that an eruption was actually NOT impending, then we would have already heard about that data in public forums by now.

Instead, what has occurred, is an even greater lock-down on information, taken to extreme levels which should make every one of us extremely nervous, if we have any sense about us at all.

 

[Trip]

Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity
Dated: March, 9, 2009

The new policy is consistent with the Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity, dated March, 9, 2009, and will conform with the expected 2010 guidance and recommendations of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. The Department has been working on a policy on scientific integrity for a number of years. The Department put out a draft for public comment in 2010, and many commenters noted that it did not sufficiently address scientific conduct by political appointees or use of scientific information in decision-making. The policy directive issued by Secretary Salazar today clearly applies the same standards of conduct to both political appointees and career appointees and forbids the alteration of scientific findings in policy-making activities. The policy covers all departmental employees when they engage in, supervise or manage scientific activities, analyze and/or publicly communicate information resulting from scientific activities, or use this information or analyses in making agency policy, management or regulatory decisions. It also covers all contractors, cooperators, partners, volunteers, and permitees who assist with scientific activities. The secretarial order, whose implementation will be overseen by Deputy Secretary David J. Hayes, incorporates the following principles: * The Interior Department values science and science plays a vital role in helping us meet the department’s mission. As such, when scientific or technological information is considered in decision making, the information will be as robust, of the highest quality, and the result of rigorous scientific processes as can be achieved within the available decision time-frame. * Interior Bureaus and Offices will document and make available to the public the scientific or technological findings or conclusions considered or relied on in decision making, except for information that is properly restricted from disclosure under procedures established in accordance with statute, regulation, Executive Order, or Presidential Memorandum. * The selection and retention of candidates for science and technology positions and positions that are decision making in nature where those decisions rely on scientific information to inform the process, shall be based on the candidate's knowledge, credentials, experience, and integrity. * Clear and unambiguous codes of conduct for scientific activities and use of science in decision making will establish expectations of employees with regard to scientific integrity. Misconduct will not be tolerated. Allegations of misconduct will be investigated and disciplinary action will be taken as appropriate. * Interior will identify, address, track, and resolve instances in which the scientific process or the integrity of scientific and technological information may be compromised. * Interior will establish procedures and as appropriate, clarify whistleblower protections to ensure the integrity of scientific and technological information and processes on which the agency relies in its decision making or otherwise uses or prepares. * Interior scientists have rights as citizens and responsibilities as government employees. These rights and responsibilities with regard to communication with the public will be clearly delineated. * Interior encourages the enhancement of scientific integrity through engagement with the communities of practice represented by professional societies. Interior scientists, scholars and other professionals are encouraged to engage in scientific, scholarly and other activities with these professional networks. These Interior employees will recuse themselves when appropriate and avoid conflicts of interest and the appearance of conflicts of interest.

Reference:  http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/09/interior-secretary-salazar-issues-scientific-integrity-order7000





Many miss the implications of the above protocol, failing to understand its application.


The government can now, unilaterally decide "right to know" of the public, removing any and every fundamental "right to know" entirely from the table, by now having everything requiring the government's stamp of approval upon it. By this science has become "science by imposition of government consensus", making all science now inherently political.

As far as "whistle blowers", the government can serve as the only jury as to whether or not the "whistle blowing" is itself valid, and thereby just squash whatever is said by its own judgment, removing even any valid airing of evidence, and shuffling off the "whistle blower" wherever its convenient.

By this, the government is maintaining every bit of scientific information under government discretion, turning science into a primarily political concern. SCIENCE by every agency, or with any government funding, or oversight, is now subject to the government's say-so as to what is "integrity" and what is "fact".

Not only is this no longer science, but it's also demonstrative of a country that is no longer free.

[Trip]

Hey LC EFA!   LTNS!  How goes it? What do you think of this?

[dandi]

The fact is there is a rigid and vigorously pursued lock-down on information about Yellowstone right now from branches of government. I could state widespread details showing the extraordinary levels to which this lock-down is being pursued, and these  are nothing short of chilling, but in doing so I would be divulging entirely too much information involving my insider contacts.

God's honest truth and no insult, I bet this has to be killing you.  I can tell by your tone that you know something and are ready to scream.  I applaud you for being able to keep a lid on it.

Instead, what has occurred, is an even greater lock-down on information, taken to extreme levels which should make every one of us extremely nervous, if we have any sense about us at all.

Extremely nervous about what?  An impending eruption or little lord hussein playing commie?

[Evil_Conservative]

Okay well, I don't think we're in danger of an eruption anytime soon.

[Trip]

God's honest truth and no insult, I bet this has to be killing you.  I can tell by your tone that you know something and are ready to scream.  I applaud you for being able to keep a lid on it.

Extremely nervous about what?  An impending eruption or little lord hussein playing commie?

Yeah, it is killing me to some degree. However I recognize that even if said, the evidence to others would only be anecdotal and hearsay, and they'd not take much from it. Ultimately the only thing that will demonstrate the truth to this is an eruption, and I'd really rather not see that happen.

The eruption would only be part of the problem. There would be no better excuse for these fascists to institute martial law and a long-term suspension of the Constitution. It also wouldn't help the dollar nor the stock market any either. And the Federal deficit? ... it would blow as high as the eruption! It would end the country as we know it, and some would view the overall collapse as an opportunity to advance their agenda.

 

[dandi]

Yeah, it is killing me to some degree. However I recognize that even if said, the evidence to others would only be anecdotal and hearsay, and they'd not take much from it. Ultimately the only thing that will demonstrate the truth to this is an eruption, and I'd really rather not see that happen.

I think that would go for all of us.

The eruption would only be part of the problem. There would be no better excuse for these fascists to institute martial law and a long-term suspension of the Constitution. It also wouldn't help the dollar nor the stock market any either. And the Federal deficit? ... it would blow as high as the eruption! It would end the country as we know it, and some would view the overall collapse as an opportunity to advance their agenda.

I think that it would end more than just this country.  Not saying I don't agree with you, just saying it would be a world wide collapse.

[Evil_Conservative]

Trip - What's the difference between harmonic tremors and earthquakes? 

I forgot to ask this question yesterday when I was speaking of earthquakes in the Yellowstone area.

[Wineslob]

Good info here:  http://scienceblogs.com/eruptions/2010/02/the_structure_of_calderas.php

[Trip]

Trip - What's the difference between harmonic tremors and earthquakes?  

I forgot to ask this question yesterday when I was speaking of earthquakes in the Yellowstone area.

Earth quakes are localized seismic events resulting from numerous things, generally resulting in signatures that demonstrate the activity occurring.

By "localized" I mean that 3 seismographs can, by triangulation,  establish an epicenter (where they occurred on the ground surface) and a focus,  a specific location, often below ground surface, where that 'event' occurred.

Harmonic tremors are seismic signatures that do not have any sort of focus point and are not localized events. There are many causes of non-local "tremors" that many would describe as 'noise', but "harmonic tremors" are different from these.

Harmonic tremors (HTs) are different in that they show a repeated harmonic resonance, a repeated wave-form.  Harmonic tremors are created  by terms similar to blowing across the top of a soda bottle and the pitch is relevant to the volume and void of the fluid in the bottle.  The repetition and frequency of HTs is a function of the flow diameter (size of the fracture(s) through which magma is flowing), the viscosity of the flow (kinematic viscosity), and the flow rate, and is expressed as the Reynold's number.

Re = ud/v

The below seismogram image shows strong harmonic tremors repeated throughout the day's seismogram, immediately preceding the peak period of extraordinary increase seismic quake activity, during December 2009, seen on the graph.  It should be rather obvious at this point that the magma movement represented by these harmonic tremors (below) are what triggered the numerous quakes over the following month.
 
SEISMOGRAM IMAGE: DEC 30, 2009, YSB Harmonic Tremors

[Trip]

 
SEISMOGRAM IMAGE: DEC 30, 2009, YSB Harmonic Tremors

Incidentally those "harmonic tremors" are not the big, obvious seismic signatures seen in the above image, but rather the small squiggly cigar-sharped "packets" narrowing at either end and broader in the middle, seen throughout the entire day's seismogram.

Two similar Harmonic tremors are seen clearly in the first 1/4 and 2/4  of this USGS definition of Harmonic Tremors, seismogram segment shown below:




Below, is the full seismogram image from which the above segment was taken:


Here is Mt St Helens, seismic Station RAN, April 2, 1980, from which the USGS extracted a segment for the "Harmonic Tremor" definition:


(Image source USGS Mt St Helens)

I'm pretty certain everyone here can pick out the segment of the above seismogram that was used in the USGS Harmonic Tremor definition (it's just above the dead-center of the image).

[Ptarmigan]

If Yellowstone was to erupt, it would be biggest disaster since Toba. When does Yellowston erupt? It could be tomorrow or 10 millions years from now.

[dandi]

Trip, did you know there were two earthquakes in Yellowstone this weekend?  A 3.5 and a 4.2?

[RightCoast]

If Yellowstone was to erupt, it would be biggest disaster since Toba. When does Yellowston erupt? It could be tomorrow or 10 millions years from now.

And we have a winna!! Nothing we can do but watch the fireworks.