Bluebear (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 03:29 PM
Original message
Former Obama advisor thinks disabled Americans should work more
via Americablog: Is there really any surprise that this was one of Obama's leading economic advisers? While it's certainly fashionable in right wing circles to kick those in the weakest situation, most Americans care a lot more about the spoiled Wall Street types getting away with crashing a global economy without punishment.
Unfortunately Orszag and fellow conservative economists never add up those numbers and talk about those costs. How about we stop beating the most vulnerable in society and start getting back to the system that used to produce a growing middle class?
Maybe the pampered class like Orszag could tally up the costs of the poor and disabled and compare it to what Wall Street receives every year. Let's include tax breaks, sub-inflation government lending, lost pension fund and 401K income from the crisis, increased unemployment costs because of Wall Street, lost tax dollars since there are fewer Americans working, as well as lost jobs because of Wall Street's actions. If the number doesn't equal the $9 trillion lent to the industry during the crisis, plus the hundreds of billions from TARP then Wall Street types should quit this constant bashing of the poor. Nobody likes bullies that pick on the weak. Bullshit from people like this is getting old:
The spike in disability insurance applications (and awards) does not reflect a less healthy population. The fraction of working-age adults who report a disability, about one in 10, has remained roughly constant for the past 20 years. (Indeed, it would be surprising if the number of workers with disabilities had risen by 50 percent over the past four years.) Rather, the weak labor market has driven more people to apply for disability benefits that they qualify for but wouldn’t need if they could find work.
When Congress created the disability insurance program in 1956, it required that recipients be unable to “engage in substantial gainful activity in the U.S. economy.†In other words, they had to be unable to work. That was sensible at the time, when more jobs involved physical labor and technologies to assist people with disabilities were not widely available.
Today, however, many people with disabilities are able to engage in some form of work — even if they can’t admit that and still keep their insurance benefits. Cutting off access to the workplace in this way is both unfortunate and unnecessary — and reinforces the threat that the current downturn could cause a long-term reduction in the share of people who work.
http://www.americablog.com/2010/12/citibanks-peter-orsz...
Proud Liberal Dem (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know if it's splitting hairs or not but I believe that Orszag is a (former) Obama advisor now. I don't necessarily think that there's anything necessarily bad about what he's saying. He's not saying to throw people off of Disability if they don't have a job, is he? I've known people who are on Disability whom could probably be working at least a part-time job or something if they wanted to. Being disabled doesn't mean totally incapable of working some kind of job although I don't believe in tying Disability to work. I'm not sure I see where Orszag does either.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 04:22 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
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Response to Reply #1
20. Of course he "believes" in throwing people off.. that's why there is a purge on NOW.
WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Sun Dec-12-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Only R-W'ers twist Liberal help into "Don't STOP them from (fill in the blank)."
LET the mentally-ill out on their own; LET the very elderly work until they drop; LET the disabled work, even if part-time.
AS IF aid and support are NEGATIVES.
"I've known people who are on Disability whom (sic) could probably be working....."
Really? You were privy to the state of their health, heart, BP, eyesight, musculature, nervous system, etc.?
".... at least a part-time job or something if they wanted to."
Ah, yes; the old "they could work IF THEY WANTED TO" crap.
CTyankee (1000+ posts) Sun Dec-12-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. OTOH, I once worked in the community of folks with developmental disabilities.
They WANT to work, but there was a lot of prejudice against hiring them. However, my Stop and Shop has several people with DD working in their stores and have done so for years. I have been told by the store managers that they are the best employees they have! They are eager to be helpful and love the camaraderie of the workplace.
It's funny, but I bet many people don't think of these individuals when they think of "diversity" in the workplace...
jtown1123 (319 posts) Fri Dec-10-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. I read this flaming pile of poo this a.m. Just disgusting.
siligut (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is just more of the same old, you are poor because....
Putting disability caused impoverishment back onto the shoulders of the impoverished.
Kennah (604 posts) Fri Dec-10-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's true
"... many people with disabilities are able to engage in some form of work — even if they can't admit that and still keep their insurance benefits."
I mean how much effort does it take to just stand there and get ****ed. The vast majority of the American people do it every day and don't even get paid for it.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 04:16 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
Response to Original message
18. unemployment is currently near 10%. what is the point of focusing on the fact that some disabled people "could" work (if there were jobs, if there were jobs they could do, with schedules they could do, with transportation they could do, with wages higher than disability)?
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 04:20 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
NOMINATED FOR THE WILLIE
NOMINATED FOR THE ANNIE
Response to Original message
19. And this is why OBAMA is purging the disability rolls.
The death toll will be at least as great as it was under Raygun, but there won't be a peep out of Dems.... including the sainted Bernie Sanders. He is only interested in the muddleclass.
Ah well, life under the bus is good.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 04:47 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
NOMINATED FOR THE WILLIE
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Response to Original message
22. "Nobody likes bullies that pick on the weak. "
Except, that is, the current administration.
Warpy (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-10-10 05:04 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010, WHO'S LAGGING IN THE VOTING
Response to Original message
23. Let me get this straight
Instead of praising the work ethic of people who could have been collecting all along, he's got his panties in a wad because now that the jobs aren't there, they're applying for the benefits that have been due them for months or even years.
What an asshole!
Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-11-10 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
28. **** HIM five ways to next Tuesday.
Fruittree (363 posts) Sat Dec-11-10 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. I don't see that it says anything that awful...
It seems to be saying that people who are on disability are applying for benefits but might be able to work if the jobs were available to them - Making the point that not all jobs require hard physical labor now. I think people sometimes over-react here..
cornermouse (1000+ posts) Sun Dec-12-10 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. They call them disabled for a reason.
Meals on wheels with a nondisabled adult accompanying them at all times to keep them from getting lost or just wandering off without delivering the meals is about the most you can expect. Maybe you and whatsisname should brush up on what it takes to be considered disabled by the government.
Fruittree (363 posts) Sun Dec-12-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Granted, I'm not an expert on what it takes to be on disability and am basing it on people I know and it's more a case of they can't do what they've been doing and they really had no other option but to go on disability but they certainly could make a better income if a job were available that they could do. Whether that's possible in this economy is doubtful but of course the whole idea of a job would work for some people and not for others.
Shandris (151 posts) Sun Dec-12-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. You don't just waltz in, drop off an application, and get disability.
It's almost always a multi-year struggle, no matter HOW obvious the case is. They schedule meeting after meeting after meeting, ask the same ****ing questions over and over, and then come up with some unbelievably asinine 'recommendations' just to prolong it even more. In my case, I was actually told 'Well, you can sell things on Ebay'. Well stop the ****ing presses, let me pull this wad of cash out of my ass and purchase a bunch of things that I just KNOW people somewhere want, and then coordinate shipping it to them with a company on the far side of town. Perhaps I should take the non-existant public transportation there? Pay for a cab every time I need to send one box? Or do you prefer that I just drive while on my 4 'DO NOT OPERATE MACHINERY ON THIS MEDICATION' medications? Should I make sure I'm in a lucid state first, or is drugged out of my mind okay also?
After 4 YEARS of this, constantly, over 16,000 in hospital/doctor bills, all with receipts, recommendations from every doctor, I went for a hearing and was...summarily rejected because I could 'live on Ebay'. I finally had to get a lawyer who spent another year getting me in front of a judge who spent about 6 minutes looking at my papers, 3 minutes talking to me, and ruled in my favor. She said it was an obvious case, and I should have been on it 8 years previously when my problems first started arising. The lawyer himself told me that even when a case goes to court, there's about a 30% chance it'll get approved.
This jackass has no idea what he's talking about. "Oh hey, I think I'll just go on disability, that should take about a week!" ****ing moron.
Fruittree (363 posts) Sun Dec-12-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. this just shows how each person's experience influences their opinion. He obviously did not go through what you did so his comment would seem stupid in that light. The person I know best had a problem with blood clots in her legs and got the disability fairly easily. Your experience sounds ludicrous and I don't even know what to say --- E-Bay??! What were they thinking?
...people on disability benefits should work for them to the extent they can reasonably do so and the work is available to them.
And I've already suggested the gigantic primitive become a hotel bell-boy; Las Vegas has a lot of hotels, and an insatiable demand for bell-boys, and the tips are probably good too.
Most of those hotels probably require that their bellboys fit through an elevator door.
Most of those hotels probably require that their bellboys fit through an elevator door.
You know, other than self-employment, every job I've had, especially the desk-sitting ones, has involved a telephone at my desk, next to a framed picture of Clare Boothe Luce.
Well, as you know, I can't use a telephone; I'm deaf.
Yet somehow I managed to do those jobs--and very well, thank you--without using a telephone.
What's even funnier is there's been cases where I've worked at a place four or five years before it suddenly dawned on others there; "oh yeah, he's deaf, he can't use the telephone."
All it takes is creative problem-solving.
One of my fantasies has always been to own a business where the telephone receptionist is deaf, the file clerks are blind, the legless are the runners, the mentally-retarded are mid-level management, and the mute deal with the walk-in public.
I bet I could make it work.
All it takes is creative problem-solving.
Coach, why would you employ any of the denziens of the DUmp?
One of my fantasies has always been to own a business where the telephone receptionist is deaf, the file clerks are blind, the legless are the runners, the mentally-retarded are mid-level management, and the mute deal with the walk-in public.
Now, take for example the subway cat, who's not, uh, aesthetically employable.
One of my fantasies has always been to own a business where the telephone receptionist is deaf, the file clerks are blind, the legless are the runners, the mentally-retarded are mid-level management, and the mute deal with the walk-in public.
I bet I could make it work.
All it takes is creative problem-solving.
Shandris (151 posts) Sun Dec-12-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. You don't just waltz in, drop off an application, and get disability.
It's almost always a multi-year struggle, no matter HOW obvious the case is. They schedule meeting after meeting after meeting, ask the same ****ing questions over and over, and then come up with some unbelievably asinine 'recommendations' just to prolong it even more. In my case, I was actually told 'Well, you can sell things on Ebay'. Well stop the ****ing presses, let me pull this wad of cash out of my ass and purchase a bunch of things that I just KNOW people somewhere want, and then coordinate shipping it to them with a company on the far side of town. Perhaps I should take the non-existant public transportation there? Pay for a cab every time I need to send one box? Or do you prefer that I just drive while on my 4 'DO NOT OPERATE MACHINERY ON THIS MEDICATION' medications? Should I make sure I'm in a lucid state first, or is drugged out of my mind okay also?
After 4 YEARS of this, constantly, over 16,000 in hospital/doctor bills, all with receipts, recommendations from every doctor, I went for a hearing and was...summarily rejected because I could 'live on Ebay'. I finally had to get a lawyer who spent another year getting me in front of a judge who spent about 6 minutes looking at my papers, 3 minutes talking to me, and ruled in my favor. She said it was an obvious case, and I should have been on it 8 years previously when my problems first started arising. The lawyer himself told me that even when a case goes to court, there's about a 30% chance it'll get approved.
This jackass has no idea what he's talking about. "Oh hey, I think I'll just go on disability, that should take about a week!" ****ing moron.
Well, I'm not describing people who are mentally-retarded by choice.
SSI for disabled adults is supposed to be for those who are significantly medically fragile/cognitively impaired.... such as classic autism, downs syndrome, cerebral palsy? You know, those who struggle with basic life skills that you and I take for granted?.....as the hand outs you receive and feel you are entitled to may jeopardize the benefits for the adults who truly need them to survive.
Go **** yourself you parasite.
Now, take for example the subway cat, who's not, uh, aesthetically employable.
I worked with one of the nicest guys I have ever met at HD. The guy had muscular dystrophy.
He was on occasion hard to understand, couldn't climb ladders or operate equipment. He had been offered disability early in his adulthood. He turned it down with complete contempt for those suggesting he was disabled!
He still works there and is one of the most knowledgeable Plumbing Associates HD has ever had on staff!
Tell me again DUmbasses, that the disabled cannot perform any lucrative function, and at least help in their own support!
She can work a phone at a call center. She could work nights at any place that has a night time janitorial crew. Construction crews usually don't care what you look like while you build on big projects.
The fugly does limit ones options somewhat but doesn't eliminate them.
Good suggestions all, sir, but I'm a little dubious about the night-time jobs.
The subway cat looks terrifying enough in broad daylight; I imagine in darkness, she looks even scarier.
fugue (846 posts) Sat Nov-13-04 11:18 AM
Original message
Disabled DUers check in!
I know you're here!
I've got Asperger's syndrome, and I telecommute, thanks to a great boss. I did lose my last job, though, because of my disability (then undiagnosed, so they thought I was making it all up).
Who are you?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=250x1
I think this thread calls for a link to what is perhaps the longest running thread at the DUmp.
The last post was 2 weeks ago.
You know, I've always seen that campfire burning away at a distance, but never went to it.
Now my curiosity is sparked; I need to examine it, to see which primitives are at it, who at other campfires boast about all the money they're making.
Now, take for example the subway cat, who's not, uh, aesthetically employable.Don't state fairs and travelling carnivals still have jobs for people who are otherwise aesthetically unemployable? I remember once paying a quarter to walk through a tent where, sitting in a chair reading a magazine, there was a middle-aged lady with a long beard. She probably got at least a dime from my two bits, and there was a constant stream of curious customers walking through the tent. I would think that DUmmy UGP could command at least that much. I might go half a buck. Team her with the Las Vegas Leviathan, and her tent would have a queue like Disney World during Easter week.
It is a mix of sob stories and overblown bs.
Normal primitive stuff.
undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-15-04 12:06 AM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
NOMINATED FOR THE WILLIE
NOMINATED FOR THE ANNIE
Response to Reply #34
36. Hi
I have depression PTSD and dissociation ,a hospital record decades long. It sucks. I have ADD...
I may have fibromyalgia.Got allergies.
Disabiliies come in all shames and kinds. And sometimes you don't want it fixed sometimes you do.
I have chosen to stay multiple,on purpose try explianing that to a shrink who thinks sucess is foring a multiple to act like one ego.
Shit I think most people are polyegos they just aren't consious of it.I mean why do people wityhout a dissociative history talk to themselves..I mean who are they talking to exactly..LOL!
There is so much humans do not know about our own bodies and brains,the arrogance of some people("professionals" especially) is astounding.
Anyways I associate myself with psych rights I like mind freedom and on our own.These two places have nothing to do with scientology.Bush has alot of nastiness headed for the psych survivors..hold onto that mad pride y'all..and fight the good fight.
Glad to be here.
mopaul (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-18-04 12:55 PM
NOW KNOWN AS THE PHALLOSCRAPING PRIMITIVE
Response to Original message
69. polio, aged 2 years
born with kidney infection in 1951, surgery, large scar on left side. earliest memory is rolling around in a wheelchair with a tube coming out of my side into a large jar. age 2, caught polio, in major epidemic in st. louis. almost died, whole left side temporarily paralyzed, left leg atrophied, 5 inches shorter. years of corrective surgery in shriner's hospital for crippled children in st. louis. all paid for by the shriner's/masons. released at age 13.
wore leg brace up to hip till i was 10, then a knee brace. could actually walk and climb mountains and most stuff normal kids do, except skate.
age 15, head on collision, father driving, maniac going 80 on a hilltop. massive facial cuts, blinded temporarily with glass. 400 stitches on face and throat, 4 years of cosmetic surgery.
then i was pretty much o.k. for about 25 years or so, had a heart attack in 95, been in a wheelchair for 10 years, graduating next week to a motorized chair.
polio is a virus and like the flu, only lasts a few days, but it could really mess a person up, or kill them outright. lots of paralysis, useless arms and legs, iron lung machines, any number of bizarre afflictions. and of course throughout history it has killed millions.
polio vaccinations began the year i got it. i am one of the last american kids to get it, before it was wiped out utterly in our nation. it still exists, in poorer pockets of the world, where hygiene is impossible. we can all thank our lucky stars that this plague was eliminated by dr. salk, and researchers like him.
i now have post-polio syndrome, which is the after effects and aging combined. a general lack of mobility, joint problems, chronic pain, but it could be worse.
i've been disabled literally ever since i can remember, but i wonder sometimes if it's not worse when you're perfectly healthy one day, and disabled the next. that has to be hard on a person, i've seen it happen.
there are many kinds of disabilities, and there are DIFFERENT levels of disability. for instance, i could get up out of my chair and kick somebody's ass if i had too, or i can still drive my own car and shower my own self, but that could all change. and the truth is, a disability can be a great equalizer of people. a crippled man can sympathize with a deaf woman, and a blind man can relate to a severe dyslexic.
i remember being in the boy's ward, and all boys were of different colors and ethnicities, black, white, jewish, catholic, but we all had our disability in common, to make us all equal.
my father has severe dyslexia, and i have a serious case of it too. he never made it past 3rd grade, and was considered retarded, quite a stigma in the 1940's. yet he raised himself up and raised a family of five as a railroad engineer, even though he cannot read, and has never read a book. his severe disability never stopped him.
but it was a rough road i'm sure.
sometimes i like to fall into self pity and whine a bit, then i'll see some little girl in a wheelchair who is so beautiful, but who can't do anything but sit there and smile. and then i fall into self loathing and remembrance of all the little boys and girls i grew up with in shriner's hospital for crippled children. let me tell you, i was one of the lucky ones.
i'm glad there is this forum, and glad to be able to whine amongst those who might understand a bit. misery loves company, and knowing there are plenty of others in the same boat, makes it less miserable.
people can all have their little groups and cliques that they've joined up with, but our little group, and it's not so little, is one in which you don't join, but earn membership to involuntarily.
we gotta stick together.
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-04 06:00 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
NOMINATED FOR THE ANNIE
Response to Reply #94
101. Are they still doing that?
The Scientologists started this nonsense back in the late 80s. I am a special ed teacher and parent of 2 ADHD kids myself. I haven't heard anything about the Scientologists' campaign in several years now. When I was active in a parent group back in the early 90s, we wrote letters to the Scientologists offering to send our kids to spend a weekend with them without their meds. We figured that would make believers out of them. But they never responded.
Wiley50 (1000+ posts) Sun Oct-23-05 04:14 PM
ALSO KNOWN AS THE WORTHLESS FREELOADING BUM THE WILY PRIMITIVE
Response to Original message
132. Disabled Sailor
got my SSI this summer.It took 3 years. Spent what was left after paying lawyer on 28 foot sailboat to live on. Just sailed it from eastern Long Island through NYC, down the coast,up the Delaware river, across the C&D Canal and down the Chesapeake to VA. Couldn't have done it without my pain patch. The pain patch I must now get off of since the powers that be in VA have decreed that only cancer patients will wear them here.
Anyone on pain management too?
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Nov-27-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
144. ADHD and Asperger's
I was diagnosed with ADHD in '92 when I was 6; diagnosed with Asperger's at 15. But I am also very smart (IQ 140, got straight A's last semester in college). I HATED school. It was mostly busywork, and I also knew all the stuff before we learned it in class (except math, I SUCK at manth, I HATE math). I got in trouble because I knew more than many of my teachers, and got too cocky about about it (we Aspies realy suck at social skills).
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Mar-16-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
158. Checking in!
With permanent injuries to my knees and back. Chronic pain. Chronic respitory problems.
sniffa (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-15-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
187. aLLo
Lost the majority of my hearing at age 4.
WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-25-10 10:58 PM
THE GREEN COMMODE PRIMITIVE, THE CALPIG PRIMITIVE'S GOOD FRIEND
Response to Original message
248. Waiting for a double lung transplant....
Been disabled since 2002...
I wonder how many of these woes are self-inflicted (including the ass-burgers DUmmies. Extended use of illicit drugs are known to cause mental problems).
Don't state fairs and travelling carnivals still have jobs for people who are otherwise aesthetically unemployable?
I remember once paying a quarter to walk through a tent where, sitting in a chair reading a magazine, there was a middle-aged lady with a long beard. She probably got at least a dime from my two bits, and there was a constant stream of curious customers walking through the tent.
I would think that DUmmy UGP could command at least that much. I might go half a buck. Team her with the Las Vegas Leviathan, and her tent would have a queue like Disney World during Easter week.
I'm in a bit of a quandary over this myself. I have several heart and blood pressure conditions which definitely qualify me for SS Disability, based on their own criteria. If I applied, it is pretty much given that I would get it, and I could get by modestly on the amount I would be awarded. But if I could find a low stress sedentary IT position, I could probably work full time. I send out a dozen resumes every week, but I'm just not getting any results. I've been out of work almost two years, and my unemployment benefits ran out last summer, so I'm currently living off a loan from my 401k. I'm closely approaching that point where I either need to have a job in hand, or give up and apply for disability.
undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-15-04 12:06 AMIt's STILL Bush's fault.
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
NOMINATED FOR THE WILLIE
NOMINATED FOR THE ANNIE
Response to Reply #34
Anyways I associate myself with psych rights I like mind freedom and on our own.These two places have nothing to do with scientology.Bush has alot of nastiness headed for the psych survivors..hold onto that mad pride y'all..and fight the good fight. Glad to be here.
It's STILL Bush's fault.
:loser:
Actually, that was from right after the presidential election of 2004.My.
This was about the time the subway cat had plopped ashore, as if a flying whale, Skins's island, and she was on different medications then, than she is now.
My.
How many different types of "medication" has the subway primitive been on? I'm going to guess quite a bit.
Yeah, for years the medical experts have tried different pharmaceutical regimens for the subway cat.That would be mistake number one in my book. But, that's just me. :-)
Sometimes she gets all agog and excited about it, and announces it to the primitives, that she's getting new stuff.
Other times, she doesn't, but one can tell anyway, from the flow and texture of her comments, that there's been a change.
Most of those hotels probably require that their bellboys fit through an elevator door....AND...be weight lift capacity with said elevator too...
...AND...be weight lift capacity with said elevator too...
You're looking at it wrongly, sir.Agreed!
Don't tell us why the gigantic primitive can't do a job.
Think about how the gigantic primitive can do a job.
We don't want to discourage him, after all; he's costing us money, being on the dole.
Well Shandris, how did I delicately put this....... you don't seem to have any ****ing problem running your mouth on the internet in your "drugged out of my mind" state now do you? SSI for disabled adults is supposed to be for those who are significantly medically fragile/cognitively impaired.... such as classic autism, downs syndrome, cerebral palsy? You know, those who struggle with basic life skills that you and I take for granted?
This very necessary and yes critical safety net was never meant for pathetic losers who just don't want to work for a living like yourself. Go spend a day in a residential setting for the adults with the disabilities that I described and then tell us all again how hard it was for you to get benefits. People like you sicken me to the core as the hand outs you receive and feel you are entitled to may jeopardize the benefits for the adults who truly need them to survive.
Go **** yourself you parasite.
[pardon my crassness everyone, but these people really piss me off today]
Frank, it's probably too late this season, but LVL would make a perfect mall Santa.