The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on March 13, 2010, 11:58:12 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7903376
WCGreen (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:06 PM
Original message
What would you say if we extended Social Security benefits to people 55 or older
who suddenly find themselves unemployed and also unemployable?
What if we also provided full-time status to workers willing to work only 32 hours? They would be legible for full benefits but work less hours.
What if people with two part time jobs would be able to buy into Medicare and pay a premium in order to get medical benefits?
Just a few thoughts about the future if, as many folks feel, job creation is not going to be as robust as it once was
Ahhhh utopia.
Extend a Hand (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. and medicare
the cost of insure keeps many people working that might be able to otherwise afford it. I think it's a great idea and would open up jobs for young people graduating.
How do you pay for it?
CaliforniaPeggy (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am all for that.
We should be pushing for all those changes.
K&R
Stupid post *type type type*
Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Im all for it, since i"m close to that age and unemployed and apparently unemployable.
further, people of my generation have put in more money into social security than any other, so we probably deserve it more, if you looked at it strictly as money paid in vs. money going out.
In other words...gimme
saracat (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Enthusiastially support it!
No job!!!!!!!!
ashling (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Interesting ideas
They would help me out. I am 56, and legally blind in one eye. My wife works as an adjunct government instructor for 2 local community colleges and 1 University (2 classes at each) which equates to 3 part time jobs. I was a graduate assistant until I got my MA and graduated, so now our insurance is through Cobra and I am not able to find a teaching job because of my vision issues.
WTF...Please explain why that is.
Lance_Boyle (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. People under 55 aren't going to go for a Soc Sec expansion, and rightfully so.
We already know Social Security won't be there for us. And nobody likes to fund a benefit that they themselves can never receive. Certainly nobody wants to INCREASE the cost of a benefit that they themselves will never receive.
The 32-hour workweek idea I'm not so sure on. Workers would be paid less (and hourly workers would work less - everything would be the same for salaried folk, except the lower pay) but more of us would have jobs (that pay less). I'm not certain that the benefits outweigh the negatives, but it could be an interesting discussion.
Now stop pissing on the dreams of all those who want to suck the government teat.
WCGreen (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. It would be taking an early retirement.
They would still be free to take part time jobs but would have the ability to be more flexible in their professional life. This would actually work to make the workforce more professional goal oriented instead of job oriented.
Interesting delusional fantasy but you might want to take note that the only goals any of your demented ilk have expressed was not working period.
OnlinePoker (144 posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. And pay for it how?
SS can't even support itself now with the government ripping off every dollar put into it. If anything, it should go the other way. When the program began, only about 57% of adults made it to 65 and then the average life expectancy after that was 13.5 years. By 1990, around 77% of adults made it to 65 and life expectancy after that had increased to 17.5%. As of 2000, there were over 34.5 million Americans older than 65. This program is unsustainable without increasing the FICA taxes, something nobody wants.
(http://thebrokenchair.com/images/airplanetwo107.jpg)
Looks like I picked the wrong day to post sanity at DU.
LiberalEsto (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Tax corporations, end the oil wars. nt
See...told ya.
taught_me_patience (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. How do you propose we pay for this?
Interesting question.
WCGreen (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Over the long haul, prices would fall or people who aren't materialistic
might be able to seek jobs that are more full filling.
But again, this would be an option for workers and not mandatory.
Think of the flexibility and not the cost.
Well that answers it. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
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Don't think about how to pay for it!
Wow, is that bad advice or what?
Lets build a new pyramid scheme, even steeper than before.
What could go wrong?
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SS Trust fund is in such bad shape that the age will be increased instead of lowered. These mental giants need to understand no workee, no colectee.
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SS Trust fund is in such bad shape that the age will be increased instead of lowered. These mental giants need to understand no workee, no colectee.
This won't be the ast year that Obama said "no COLA" for you!" either.
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Well, I would say "The only way that will work fiscally is by cutting the monthly benefits in half for the rest of your life and then means-testing them on top of that."
Sorry DUmmies, there aren't enough unicorns in the whole lollipop forest to poop out THAT many Skittles.
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If all entitlement spending and their bureaucracies and overhead was cut by 7%, what would be saved? I dunno. I'm too lazy to go look.
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That would be so cool. I might actually stand a chance of collecting unemployment until I can collect Social Security. Hand me the Cheetos and a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker! :evillaugh:
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I was wondering what if lets say doctors and medical specialists all decided to go Galt at the same time and just retire to the country. Just a single sector of the economy that gets walloped, how would the government respond to that?
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It's going to seem like they did anyway, FGL, if Obamacare goes through. Dumping 30 million expectant and demanding users onto an unchanged number of providers is going to make a medical appointment about as hard to get as a Brontosaurus Burger.
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It's going to seem like they did anyway, FGL, if Obamacare goes through. Dumping 30 million expectant and demanding users onto an unchanged number of providers is going to make a medical appointment about as hard to get as a Brontosaurus Burger.
Look at RomneyCare. The number of specialists has gone down, people left the state to work elsewhere.
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Can I get 10 years back pay?.... :-)
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It will get to a point where 49% of the people who work will be supporting the 51% of those who don't or won't.
All hell will break loose.
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Hell, Tucker, I'd say it looks like it's headed for 55/45 or even 60/40.
:banghead:
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This won't be the ast year that Obama said "no COLA" for you!" either.
I am not expecting any for the four years this @sshole in office. However, that will not stop federal workers from getting their raises especially those low life political critters and their staff.
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Hell, Tucker, I'd say it looks like it's headed for 55/45 or even 60/40.
:banghead:
Sounds like a campaign rally cry. 54-40 or fight. (remember that math is not the DUmmy's strong suit)
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Im all for it, since i"m close to that age and unemployed and apparently unemployable.
further, people of my generation have put in more money into social security than any other, so we probably deserve it more, if you looked at it strictly as money paid in vs. money going out.
If you use your rational then the rich deserve it more because they have technically paid more than you you loser.
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-12-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Im all for it, since i"m close to that age and unemployed and apparently unemployable.
further, people of my generation have put in more money into social security than any other, so we probably deserve it more, if you looked at it strictly as money paid in vs. money going out.
Translation: I've always been unemployed, but I'm the same age as people who have paid so I should be entitled to SS!
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Beck stated at the CPAC Conference (and I'm not sure where he got his numbers, but they sound right) that if SSI were age adjusted, men today wouldn't be eligible until age 75, and women wouldn't be eligible until 80.
Suck on that, DUmmies.
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Beck stated at the CPAC Conference (and I'm not sure where he got his numbers, but they sound right) that if SSI were age adjusted, men today wouldn't be eligible until age 75, and women wouldn't be eligible until 80.
Suck on that, DUmmies.
Age adjusted don't mean squat, with our fantastic medical advances people live longer but their body's are not able to function as well at 75 as it did at 30.
For those over the age of 65 that have worked all their lives at a non manual job they may be able to squeeze in another 5-8 years, even go to 70 with no problem.
For those of us who have had wear on our body's, lifting, pulling, standing for long hours, [Nursing is one profession that wears out both male and females bodys] Who wants to be in a hospital and have a 70 year old nurse come into the room with bad eyesite waving a catheter tube and try to find the place to install it, or take a blood sample from a vain they have to feel to find. Darn I would not want a 70 year old doctor.
Do we have to make time to retire depend on what work one has done.?
It is not our fault we now live longer, we get our vaccinations, antibiotics and surgery when needed. If one is to find fault with SS# then one must look at the fact that most of us over 55 would not be here were it not for medical care.
I myself have lived longer then both Grandfathers or their fathers. Woman did live longer way back when but that was before they had to work 3-4 jobs at once. Woman had one job in life, to take care of their husbands and kids, work within the comunity on volunteer projects, perhaps even get a part time job.
When WW2 came woman had to join the work force as their men were over seas. Woman found they could raise kids and build bombers at the same time.
When the war ended the government went on the propaganda war path that woman should give up their jobs so the returning men would have a job.
The government made it unfeminine and unfair for woman to keep a job that a returning serviceman needed to feed his family. Most every Hollywood movie and the new fangled TV programs showed the woman at home.
These returning men who had been gone in some cases 4+ years had huge health problems, as they do today.
Then when the 20 year old anniversary of the wars end came, we still had men and women doing the same job at different salary's. Woman began to go back into the work force and pay into SS#, this was never envisioned by the people that devised that plan.
How SS# can survive today with people living longer but unable to work as their body's just cannot function on the level of 40 years ago is anyones guess.
Nasty minded people believe that this National Health Care Bill is aimed at cutting down the number of elders that are retired. Admittedly there are people that want to depopulate the world, placing the retired into a system of who gets care first, a child or 60 year old man is not inconceivable. Triage they call it.
Rant ended
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It will get to a point where 49% of the people who work will be supporting the 51% of those who don't or won't.
All hell will break loose.
We're already at about 45/55, at least when you consider tax burden.
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Age adjusted don't mean squat, with our fantastic medical advances people live longer but their body's are not able to function as well at 75 as it did at 30.
Actually, that was pretty much my point. When you consider the percentage of men and women who lived to age 65 in 1937 versus today, to lower that percentage down to the same level, you would have to increase the eligibility age by AT LEAST 10 years for both men and women. Nobody ever said the body functions as well as we age, which is one of the reasons why our medical costs have skyrocketed so much.
But to sit there and rely on fewer people to support more would either bankrupt the system or force a reduction in benefits (including Medicare) to such a point as to be rendered basically worthless.
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We're already at about 45/55, at least when you consider tax burden.
Question here Sparky, do people who have never worked due to not health but choice get money or go on SS# when they reach a certain age ?
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Question here Sparky, do people who have never worked due to not health but choice get money or go on SS# when they reach a certain age ?
If found eligible in some cases, one can go on SSI or SSI Disability at any age.
LINK (https://socialsecurity-disability.org/content/do-you-qualify?gclid=COKEvLe8uKACFWV75Qodwz2LUw)
Basically, an individual must have paid Social Security taxes on his or her wages long enough to qualify for benefits. Generally, this means that claimants must have a fairly consistent work history, and have worked a minimum of five of the ten years previous to the onset of disability. The work credit requirement can be somewhat less for younger applicants, as parents’ work credits can be applied to applicants under the age of 22.
In the case of need-based Supplemental Security Income (SSI), there are no work requirements because the program is financed through general tax revenues and not by the Social Security tax. In order to qualify for SSI, individuals must be over 65 years old, by legally blind, or be disabled, and have total family assets amounting to less than $3000. Assets, as determined by the SSA, include income (wages, pensions, other benefits programs, etc.) and resources (stock holdings, real estate, cash savings, etc.). Individuals who meet these requirements may be eligible for SSI payments regardless of previous work history.
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Question here Sparky, do people who have never worked due to not health but choice get money or go on SS# when they reach a certain age ?
They can go on SS using a legal spouses income. Shacking up don't qualify.
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Look this is doable. We just start making money out of thin air...wait we have been for the last three years under the donk congress headed by Nanzi and the man-child. THAT'S IT!!!1111!1 We just keep printing up more money then everyone will have money.
All is well.
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Why is it that the SS pyramid confuses them as much as the food pyyramid?
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Tax corporations
Does it take a friggin sledgehammer to pound it into these people's heads that corporations don't really pay taxes, they just pass the cost onto the consumer.
OK DUmmies...try wrapping your pea brains around this analogy:
I price and sell apples for $1.00 apiece. The gubbment sez "We're gonna tax you 40%" I say "OK". Now I price my apples at $1.40 apiece. :mental:
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We just keep printing up more money then everyone will have money.
All is well.
It doesn't make any difference. No matter how much money the muslim prints, the same people will end up with it. Inflation doesn't change losers into winners.
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Does it take a friggin sledgehammer to pound it into these people's heads that corporations don't really pay taxes, they just pass the cost onto the consumer.
OK DUmmies...try wrapping your pea brains around this analogy:
I price and sell apples for $1.00 apiece. The gubbment sez "We're gonna tax you 40%" I say "OK". Now I price my apples at $1.40 apiece. :mental:
And by DUmmie logic now you're making 40% more profit so you should be taxed more.
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Look this is doable. We just start making money out of thin air...wait we have been for the last three years under the donk congress headed by Nanzi and the man-child. THAT'S IT!!!1111!1 We just keep printing up more money then everyone will have money.
All is well.
Or we could plant money trees. That would be good for Mother Gaia too!
:innocent:
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A big surprise, a family member at the age of 23 has a heart attack. they have a wife and 2 kids to suport. They can no longer work.
Your 17 year old son comes home to tell you tearfully he has knocked up his girlfriend, 3 weeks later you find out he has Cancer with a 9 month time line to live.
A man with 5 kids is killed in an industrial accident.
A woman sole suport of 3 kids is shot in a drive by shooting.
A woman who has never been in the work force due to raising 6 kids is told her husband at 35 has been hit by a truck,
All under 55 years old, what do we as civilized people do to help them.?
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A big surprise, a family member at the age of 23 has a heart attack. they have a wife and 2 kids to suport. They can no longer work.
Your 17 year old son comes home to tell you tearfully he has knocked up his girlfriend, 3 weeks later you find out he has Cancer with a 9 month time line to live.
A man with 5 kids is killed in an industrial accident.
A woman sole suport of 3 kids is shot in a drive by shooting.
A woman who has never been in the work force due to raising 6 kids is told her husband at 35 has been hit by a truck,
All under 55 years old, what do we as civilized people do to help them.?
Donate to DU in their name so they can get a star. We can post their stories at CC.
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A big surprise, a family member at the age of 23 has a heart attack. they have a wife and 2 kids to suport. They can no longer work.
Your 17 year old son comes home to tell you tearfully he has knocked up his girlfriend, 3 weeks later you find out he has Cancer with a 9 month time line to live.
A man with 5 kids is killed in an industrial accident.
A woman sole suport of 3 kids is shot in a drive by shooting.
A woman who has never been in the work force due to raising 6 kids is told her husband at 35 has been hit by a truck,
All under 55 years old, what do we as civilized people do to help them.?
Shoot Vesta, how about I just give them all your address so you can give them a big old hug??
But Series there Hugh, a couple of your examples would be covered by other insurances. Did you happen to catch the thread about teachers not paying into SS?.... Interesting.... BTW could you see your way clear to putting another P in support or are you all P'd out?? :fuelfire:
/pb
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Wow, that vestanumbers has one hell of a family! I'd steer clear of that bunch, for fear their luck would rub off on me.
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Well, little does vesta realize that in just about every case she listed, SSI would come into play. A wife whose husband is killed on the job not only gets life insurance, but gets HIS SSI benefits, for example.
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Well, little does vesta realize that in just about every case she listed, SSI would come into play. A wife whose husband is killed on the job not only gets life insurance, but gets HIS SSI benefits, for example.
Oh I suspect she knows, but, in her own convoluted way she was trying to make her point by appealing to 'our better selves', the, 'there but for the grace of God go I ' argument. In other words, she doesn't care about facts she wants to play on emotion. :thatsright:
That said, in a piece of irony, I happened to read an article in Foster's today while waiting at a local hospital. The article? Social Security having to dig in to the IOU's. I didn't have time to read it before I was called ( I was in and out in 45 minutes, excellent service in my book ) and it is not on their web page. Of course it could have been an older paper.
ETA Link to article referenced. Vesta you may want to take a peek at this one.
http://townhall.com/news/business/2010/03/15/social_security_to_start_cashing_uncle_sams_ious (http://townhall.com/news/business/2010/03/15/social_security_to_start_cashing_uncle_sams_ious)
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In the industrial accident, workers comp would come into play.
The 23 year old guy with an unlikely heart attack? They're doing wonderful things with stents nowadays. Don't even have to put you to sleep or slice you open. Snake some stents and place them artfully, and voila, the guy's good as new.
There are all kinds of safety nets, Vesta. One of my renters was pregnant by her fiancee who was killed by a paper machine. Terrible and tragic. She has plenty of safety net money so that she can provide a nice home for herself, her other child, as well as the son of the killed man.
As for the 17 year old very young father with 9 months to live. Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
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A big surprise, a family member at the age of 23 has a heart attack. they have a wife and 2 kids to suport. They can no longer work.
Your 17 year old son comes home to tell you tearfully he has knocked up his girlfriend, 3 weeks later you find out he has Cancer with a 9 month time line to live.
A man with 5 kids is killed in an industrial accident.
A woman sole suport of 3 kids is shot in a drive by shooting.
A woman who has never been in the work force due to raising 6 kids is told her husband at 35 has been hit by a truck,
All under 55 years old, what do we as civilized people do to help them.?
Sounds like time to move.
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Someone needs to break the news to vestanumbers that she is not eligible for the Top DUmmy award on the basis of posts here. It appears she's campaigning, but as with everything else, she's all confused. She really needs to leave this board, and post exclusively at the DUmp. If she would do that, she'd immediately be a frontrunner for the award, and with so many entertaining DUmmies shutting down, the DUmp really needs someone of her caliber. Can you imagine a DUmp thread with vestanumbers and StraightStory discussing medical woes and skydiving? DUmmy Gold!
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Furthermore, if the young lady of the 17 year old cancer patient is in New York, she's in luck! I just renewed my workers comp disability portion, and did you know that in New York, if one of my girls gets knocked up, serving french fries, I guess, this insurance covers her pregnancy? What a state, my beloved New York!!!!!111!!! On my dime!!!!!111!!!!
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Someone needs to break the news to vestanumbers that she is not eligible for the Top DUmmy award on the basis of posts here. It appears she's campaigning, but as with everything else, she's all confused. She really needs to leave this board, and post exclusively at the DUmp. If she would do that, she'd immediately be a frontrunner for the award, and with so many entertaining DUmmies shutting down, the DUmp really needs someone of her caliber. Can you imagine a DUmp thread with vestanumbers and StraightStory discussing medical woes and skydiving? DUmmy Gold!
AHHHH GEE, you done got me read GOBUCKS, sure I'm all confused, I be lookin for an reason for the crazy world and there just aint none.
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AHHHH GEE, you done got me read GOBUCKS, sure I'm all confused, I be lookin for an reason for the crazy world and there just aint none.
The admission of ignorance is the first step on the road to knowledge, grasshopper.