The Conservative Cave
Interests => Living Off of the Grid & Survivalism => Topic started by: CactusCarlos on July 07, 2012, 03:11:24 PM
-
Inspired by
I have a natural gas generator. I love it and talk really nice to it every day. If my neighbors don't like it they can get one themselves. When my friends complain they can't afford it, I ask them how much their last vacation to Europe cost them. They shut right up. Everybody makes decisions what to spend their money on. I don't take expensive vacations so I could afford a generator. It's the best investment I have ever made and last a lot longer than a vacation.
Anyone have a home generator? What kind do you have? What do you like/don't like about it?
-
Inspired by
Anyone have a home generator? What kind do you have? What do you like/don't like about it?
My experience with generators is with a 35,000 watt, tractor driven one we used at the farm, and my 4000 watt one that runs power tools and my camping trailer.
I used to live on a dairy farm, and we got the tractor PTO driven generator after we had a power outage in 1978 that caused us to miss the evening milking. The loss we took in decreased production more than paid for the generator, even if we used it more for in-the-field repairs running a welder and other electrical tools than we did running the entire farm.
It did earn it's keep running the farm back in 1994 when the power failed for 51 hours after an ice storm. 6-8 hours a day was all it was needed to milk and feed the cows, and cool the milk. My brother and I no longer farm, but we still have the generator.
Drawbacks, you need a tractor with at least 75 HP to run it at full capacity, and it ain't exactly portable (weighs 850 pounds, not including trailer.)
My smaller one I got a few months ago to run my camper if I ever find myself somewhere without an electrical hookup, and right now, it's my "insurance policy" if we ever loose power (like a LOT of localities around us have), we'll just move into the camper for a few days. Picked it up at Camping World for $300, mainly because it had the 30amp, 125V outlet that is compatible with the camper's plug (no adapters needed), and is big enough to run the A/C.
Power outages here are few and far between, only been 3 in the last 30 years or so longer than 12 hours, but with Barry at the helm, I ain't taking no chances. The power company has been a week now, trying to restore power in this area, and thousands are still without power here in VA, WV, TN, KY, and OH.
Haven't used it enough to encounter any drawbacks, other than it's 125 volt only, so it can't run my house A/C, water heater or water pump. It CAN run my camper's A/C, along with the freezer and 2 fridges at the house.
I don't worry about water, my camper holds 45 gallons, and I can get more from my spring if it runs out.
-
We have a Generac, 6500W running, 8000W surge. It will run our home if I selectively turn off some breakers, even the well pump and the A/C (but not at the same time).
Haven't used it for a while. I need to start it and run it out of gas to get ride of the old fuel in it.
-
We have a 10 KW Generic automatic natural gas generator. I insisted we put it in 2 years ago after the horrible snow storm we had here. We were at the point of running out of firewood. I also got really tired of throwing food out in the warmer months. We seem to lose power a lot and not for just a couple of hours. It has more than paid for itself. I wanted to get a 14 KW but I lost the battle so unfortunately, although it runs the central heat in the winter cause it's gas, it doesn't run the central air. We put an air conditioner in the kitchen so it runs that, which is where I spent all of my time.
Now my husband wishes he had listened to me but he never does until I'm proven right. Anyway, other than that it runs all our lights, tvs, internet, ceiling fans, all the fridges and freezers, gas stove, etc. The only thing it really doesn't run is the pool, which sucks, the central a/c and the washer and dryer. If he had listened to me we could have run all those things.
Because we were doing renovations at the time that also involved electrical work, it cost us less to install. The actual generator was about $2700, which we bought on line. I think it ended up being about $5000. The guy across the street paid more because he wasn't doing work at the time. The smart lady down the street got a 20 KW so she can run everything.
Anyway, it's just so much better than having to worry about losing everything. Once a year or so you need to have somebody service it, like a car. We also turn it off every 24-48 hours to check the oil level and add if needed.
Hope this helps
-
Just took delivery on this one:
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Champion-1500-watt-Portable-Gas-Powered-Generator/6155597/product.html
I was inspire by this:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-san-onofre-20120624,0,2982359.story
It is just to run the freezer and some lights for security, maybe the TV.
-
I will probably invest in one eventually, but since we have owned this property (1998), I can count the number of outages I have had on one hand.
And there is a funny story to go with that..
In the mid 90's, there was quite a bit of neighborhood infrastructure enhancement that went on here, one of the projects moved virtually all of the power, telephone, and cable lines underground.
But it didn't happen here - meaning My house, and a handful of others. We are still connected to an ancient system that runs between the back yards. And unlike the overdriven underground power, the underused pole I'm connected to never fails. There have been several times when nearly all of the power is out on the street, except for my house, and those lucky few who haven't been 'upgraded'
-
There have been several times when nearly all of the power is out on the street, except for my house, and those lucky few who haven't been 'upgraded'
Do you have to handle a sudden increase in 'friends' at those times?
-
For a 20kw model, would that make a lot of noise when it's running? I live in a suburb and my neighbors houses are typical distances from mine.
-
We have one because of an ice storm several years back before Christmas (lost power for 10 days - luckily my husband was able to get one on the first day of the storm). Folks immediately surrounding us lost power for 2 weeks in last Halloween's storm. I live in a very rural area, power goes out in the winter during a storm, you are stuck. It is a very wise investment to make.
-
I don't have one yet CC but I intend on getting one soon. Primarily to protect all of the meat in my deep freeze.
-
For a 20kw model, would that make a lot of noise when it's running? I live in a suburb and my neighbors houses are typical distances from mine.
I also live in a suburb with the houses average width apart. The woman with the 20kw model actually put hers in her driveway next to the house. We have ours in the backyard under the deck steps and the guy across the street put his in his side yard behind the fence. I actually think his seems louder cause it bounces off of his house. The 20kw isn't any louder than the smaller models. I think it's the gas ones that you have to start yourself that are louder. I think it's really only loud if you stand near it.
Make sure if you get one you also get a carbon monoxide detector.
Also most communities have a sound code so just check that. Ours was just under it. If anybody actually complained, I'd leave this house as fast as I could.
-
I also live in a suburb with the houses average width apart. The woman with the 20kw model actually put hers in her driveway next to the house. We have ours in the backyard under the deck steps and the guy across the street put his in his side yard behind the fence. I actually think his seems louder cause it bounces off of his house. The 20kw isn't any louder than the smaller models. I think it's the gas ones that you have to start yourself that are louder. I think it's really only loud if you stand near it.
Make sure if you get one you also get a carbon monoxide detector.
Also most communities have a sound code so just check that. Ours was just under it. If anybody actually complained, I'd leave this house as fast as I could.
Stupid question time: "natural gas" is the regular gas feed I have coming to my house that most people use for dryer/oven/heater/etc or is it something else?
-
Yes, it's the same thing. As long as you already have a gas line coming into your house, you shouldn't have any problem. We heat with natural gas, our dryer is gas, hot water heater, etc. We switched the stove to gas because it wouldn't take much of the generator power.
-
I have an old 5.5HP Briggs and Stratton that I bolted to an Onan 1700 watt out of a motor home. I have run it at camp for 20 years! I am currently looking for a new 3500-5000 watt for my 3 freezers in emergencies. I have yet to find one that I feel good about as they all have aluminum block motors and are made or assembled in China. They require extreme maintenance! I think I may go military surplus.
-
I've got a Kohler 17RES, which is a 17kW standalone generator. It runs on propane, as does the rest of our heat-generating stuff -- water heater, range, etc.
I had it installed in early 2008 and I've needed it only a couple of times, but after a particularly shitty encounter in Salt Lake City in which some moron took out a couple hundred homes in my area because he crashed into a utility pole/special wingding thing, it took the f'n power company 6 DAYS to get us back up online.
I vowed then, never again.
This generator powers EVERYTHING in the house, except for two ovens and some of the extraneous stuff that's used rarely anyway. The big items - AC, heat, electricity in the kitchen, BR, and living room areas, along with garage door opener and a few extra things here and there - are all connected.
So it cost me about $5,500, plus about $1,800 for an electrician to install it, and another $200 for the gas company to run a dedicated line to the unit.
I will do it again if necessary.
Oh, I have it set up to fire up once a week for 20 minutes. It works fine, but I do have to change the synthetic oil once a year and this past spring, I put new spark plugs in it and change the air filter. Pretty painless maintenance, but one of the things that attracted me to the Kohler was that the valves require no adjustment, unlike the Generac.
-
Does anyone else use their battery backup computer power supplies for a couple of lights for brief outages? :-)
-
I used to keep a spare car battery around the apartment and a work light for when the power went out. My old neighborhood was bad about power outages.
-
I had a look at the LPG generators, but they're really big consumers of gas - and not having piped gas here that is an issue. They eat 9kg bottles of gas in much the same way that government spends money. That same bottle of gas runs the stove in my house for 6 months.
I can run everything I need to in the house - that is fridges and freezers - off a 2KVA set. I don't need heating and AC is for pansies. I have a portable gas hot water system and have no issues whatsoever with showering in the back yard should the need arise.
So there's really two options for generators - Diesel or Gasoline.
A friend is selling off their 12KVA diesel site welder which has the ability to supply more than enough 240VAC to the house, but I'm somewhat reluctant to shell out the cash for it because, well, I'm a tight arse bastard. It uses the same fuel as my truck and the fuel doesn't degrade in the same way as gasoline if left in storage, but is rather big, heavy and loud and needs a forklift or crane to shift. It's also expensive.
A better option for me is one of the 2KVA Inverter generators from Yamaha - Small , quiet , efficient , light enough to be carried in one hand and uses the same fuel as the outboard and chainsaws /etc. We ran a chest freezer and 2 12V 90L freezers off one on the last camping trip with enough left over to charge batteries for an electric outboard. It's also something like 1/3rd the price of the big diesel set.
-
On Saturday at our Legion picnic our generator ran all the power for an air house for the kids, the popcorn machines, the cotton candy machines, the band's amplifiers and a few other things. Never even whimpered.
-
I think this thread might get some more looks in the next week or so . . .
-
I need to start looking for a home generator and have no clue how to gauge how powerful of a generator I need.
-
I need to start looking for a home generator and have no clue how to gauge how powerful of a generator I need.
I can help with this.
You start by adding up the wattage of the stuff that you absolutely must have in the event of an outage. My priority list might look something like this:
1. Freezers and refrigerators
2. Heating (you can do without A/C)
3. Lighting - kitchen, living room, bedroom, bathroom
4. Garage door opener (don't laugh - try to get in your garage when it ain't working)
5. Kitchen outlets and/or the circuit breakers for microwaves/electric skillets. If you've got a gas range, you're covered.
I've got a pretty big house at something like 3200 sq. ft. I've got a standby permanent generator installed that runs on propane. After installation, I tested the thing by doing this:
1. Turned on all the lights in the house.
2. Turned on one oven.
3. Turned on the air conditioning.
4. Plugged in and turned on a couple of hand-held appliances, computers, etc.
The 17 kW generator handled all of that without too much of a whimper, but bogged down pretty badly when I turned on the second oven.
So depending on your layout and what you want to run with say a portable generator, you can do pretty well with something like 5 kW. You'll plug in your fridge and freezers and run a bunch of extension cords throughout your house, but you should be able to run most of your stuff at one time or another. It's just that those smaller generators tend to make a lot of noise and you've got to keep 'em fed with gasoline.
-
I think this thread might get some more looks in the next week or so . . .
Yeah I never did get that surplus one I was talking about! I had to run out today and ended up with the same Champion Rick got. At least I will keep my freezers going. If this storm brings a long power outage there is a generator upgrade in the stars for me.
-
I have one for my freezers, and maybe an extension cord, but I would love a larger one.
-
This gives you an idea of wattage:
http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/usage_chart.html
-
I don't have one, but different family members have them. South east Texas and hurricane season...they have generators enough to power the fridge and freezer plus at least one ceiling fan.
-
My wife's grandmother gave us hers. Gas powered one. I was thinking about looking into gettng a big gas tank I could conceivably put in the garage so it could run for a few days, if need be.
-
My wife's grandmother gave us hers. Gas powered one. I was thinking about looking into gettng a big gas tank I could conceivably put in the garage so it could run for a few days, if need be.
Why not use an above-ground fuel tank, similar to those used for oil-fired furnaces?
-
Why not use an above-ground fuel tank, similar to those used for oil-fired furnaces?
That's what I meant.
-
My wife's grandmother gave us hers. Gas powered one. I was thinking about looking into gettng a big gas tank I could conceivably put in the garage so it could run for a few days, if need be.
You are not talking about gasoline are you ?
.
.
-
I got an estimate on a 7KW propane $5500.00, and waiting for a 8KW propane estimate.
This pretty much would cover me;
1. Freezers and refrigerators
2. Heating (you can do without A/C)
3. Lighting - kitchen, living room, bedroom, bathroom
4. Garage door opener (don't laugh - try to get in your garage when it ain't working)
5. Kitchen outlets and/or the circuit breakers for microwaves/electric skillets. If you've got a gas range, you're covered.
-
You are not talking about gasoline are you ?
.
.
Yes.
-
Yes.
Some insurance companies limit the amount of gasoline you can store on your property.
They use OSHA requirements;
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=10673&p_table=STANDARDS
Some companies are even stricter, but if they don't know and there are no insured losses...... :-)
.
-
I got an estimate on a 7KW propane $5500.00, and waiting for a 8KW propane estimate.
This pretty much would cover me;
One more I should have included in that list:
6. Sump pump(s)
The circuits to which you have sump pumps plugged into should be a part of that overall plan. Fortunately, they don't use much juice.
-
Some insurance companies limit the amount of gasoline you can store on your property.
They use OSHA requirements;
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=10673&p_table=STANDARDS
Some companies are even stricter, but if they don't know and there are no insured losses...... :-)
.
Thanks for that! Really something to think about now.
-
Yeah I never did get that surplus one I was talking about! I had to run out today and ended up with the same Champion Rick got. At least I will keep my freezers going. If this storm brings a long power outage there is a generator upgrade in the stars for me.
Catsmtrod, if you have to use it, could you keep track of load and fuel usage, I would like to compare to advertised spec.
-
Catsmtrod, if you have to use it, could you keep track of load and fuel usage, I would like to compare to advertised spec.
If I use it, it will be to power 1 small chest freezer that draws about 700 watts. I hope I don't have to but I will let you know. So far it seems like a nice little unit. Filled it with fluids and it started on the first pull. After a minute it smoothed out nice and I ran my 1/2 drill to repair my wheelbarrow. Very quiet compared to my 5 hp homemade Briggs.
-
At 800 watts you should get a continuous 8hrs per gallon of gas. One small refer and a TV is my intended load.
-
Since we have a generator now I have a question. Why do some people hook up their generators to the electrical panel? My husband has no desire to do this, but we do have a relative who's an electrician and if we wanted to do it he could do it for us. Do people mostly do this so they don't have wires all over the place?
-
Since we have a generator now I have a question. Why do some people hook up their generators to the electrical panel? My husband has no desire to do this, but we do have a relative who's an electrician and if we wanted to do it he could do it for us. Do people mostly do this so they don't have wires all over the place?
I can only comment on my generator an 8 KW. There is an automatic transfer switch with 10 breakers that replaced 10 breakers in my regular panel.
In the regular panel are two breakers that feed the transfer switch / panel. When power goes out the automatic transfer switch turns on the generator and these 10 breakers are the only circuits with power. Most of the house is powered by the generator, the really important circuits listed by Eupher.
Things we would not need in an emergency such as Heat Pump (the Oil Furnace would be powered), Electric Dryer, Electric Range, and some spare rooms are not fed by the generator.
.
-
I can only comment on my generator an 8 KW. There is an automatic transfer switch with 10 breakers that replaced 10 breakers in my regular panel.
In the regular panel are two breakers that feed the transfer switch / panel. When power goes out the automatic transfer switch turns on the generator and these 10 breakers are the only circuits with power. Most of the house is powered by the generator, the really important circuits listed by Eupher.
Things we would not need in an emergency such as Heat Pump (the Oil Furnace would be powered), Electric Dryer, Electric Range, and some spare rooms are not fed by the generator.
We probably won't do it, but it was more of a curiosity question.
-
Catsmtrod, if you have to use it, could you keep track of load and fuel usage, I would like to compare to advertised spec.
The power was off for about 30 hrs so I ran it for the first 5 and shut it down to change the oil and I filled it at that time. It now has 14hrs on the meter and never ran out of gas and appears to have quite a bit left.
-
We probably won't do it, but it was more of a curiosity question.
JP Sousa spoke toward your question very well, but I'll chime in to say that it's really a convenience and a safety issue.
If you have a generator that is portable and you don't connect it to your household system via transfer switch, you're going to have extension cords running all over the house, you're going to have to feed that gasoline-powered, noisy generator gasoline at all hours of the day and night, and it's just generally safer with a permanent setup -- not to mention a real plus when you're trying to sell your house.
Maintenance of a standalone generator consists of changing the oil, oil and air filters, and if you've got a Generac, adjusting the valve lash on occasion. :whatever: (My Kohler requires no valve adjustments, TYVM.) So maintenance is pretty straightforward and easy. Engines are sturdier and better able to handle loads, and it basically boils down to "you get what you pay for."
YMMV.
-
The power was off for about 30 hrs so I ran it for the first 5 and shut it down to change the oil and I filled it at that time. It now has 14hrs on the meter and never ran out of gas and appears to have quite a bit left.
Thank you. 14hrs on a gallon and a half - goes to their advertisement. And thank you for pointing out the need to change the break in oil. I had not stocked for it.
-
JP Sousa spoke toward your question very well, but I'll chime in to say that it's really a convenience and a safety issue.
If you have a generator that is portable and you don't connect it to your household system via transfer switch, you're going to have extension cords running all over the house, you're going to have to feed that gasoline-powered, noisy generator gasoline at all hours of the day and night, and it's just generally safer with a permanent setup -- not to mention a real plus when you're trying to sell your house.
Maintenance of a standalone generator consists of changing the oil, oil and air filters, and if you've got a Generac, adjusting the valve lash on occasion. :whatever: (My Kohler requires no valve adjustments, TYVM.) So maintenance is pretty straightforward and easy. Engines are sturdier and better able to handle loads, and it basically boils down to "you get what you pay for."
YMMV.
You still have to add the oil though even if you hook it up to the electric panel, right?
-
You still have to add the oil though even if you hook it up to the electric panel, right?
My generator is powered by a two-cylinder engine that runs off propane. It's an internal combustion engine that needs oil for lubrication, yes.
Mine takes about two quarts, and I use synthetic oil.
-
It's the same maintenance you do with your car... plugs, oil, filters every X hours (or months).
-
It's the same maintenance you do with your car... plugs, oil, filters every X hours (or months).
I'd forgotten about the plugs, but yeah, you're right.
I've needed my generator only a few times since I had it installed not quite 5 years ago. And the generator is set up to "exercise" once per week for about 20 minutes, so overall running has been pretty minimal.
This past spring I installed two spark plugs -- which was a bitch, because the second cylinder could only be accessed if I took the damned external cabinet apart. Major PITA.
-
I had a car like that. I had to slip a socket over plug and turn the socket with a wrench. It was a pain in the ass, but it worked.
-
I heard on the news this morning that in areas of NY & NJ people were finding that their generators had been stolen during the night.
-
I heard on the news this morning that in areas of NY & NJ people were finding that their generators had been stolen during the night.
That doesn't surprise me at all, that's why we have ours locked up.