My life as a Mormon Elder

[Hawk]

I was a convert to the LDS Church in my 20's. Their focus on the family and their concept of living the religion attracted me greatly. The young Elders (missionaries) were at our home often and we enjoyed their company.

I started attending church every Sunday and was baptized. Shortly thereafter I received the Aaronic Priesthood and was given a calling. As part of living the religion every active member has a calling. The Bishopric extends the offer of the calling and you could either accept or refuse it. My first calling was Cub Master and it was fun while it lasted.

Then I received the Melkezedic Priesthood. I taught various Sunday school classes for a while.

All the time this was going on I kept a very critical eye open just waiting for the other shoe to fall, you know, the one that reveals the dark underbelly. In 13 years it never fell. Eventually I was Ward Mission Leader, then after that I was Ward Clerk.

There is still a great deal about the LDS church that makes sense, in a real world application. When the build a church there are three wards that attend the same building, at different times. The times are adjusted annually so that no ward is given preferential treatment. There is no paid ministry. None of their buildings are mortgaged and they are all self insured.

Wards are decided by geographical boundaries surrounding the church. If you move to a new area, then you change wards. Moving from ward to ward is seamless. One is the same as the next.

Gradually over time whatever need I had was evidently fulfilled and I left the church. Then I took a few years to look at Paganism. It was fun to fiddle with, but I lost interest. Now I guess what I really am is an agnostic. From my perspective there is no evidence one way or the other to indicate that a god or gods exist.

The only religion that can get my dander up is militant atheists. This is just because by nature they are proclaiming as proven fact that there is no god, and this strikes me as wrong on every level. At least other religions have a culture, usually from youth, supported by their holy books.

This is not to say that I find their religion or holy books evidence, just that I can see where they come from.

[TVDOC]

Interesting.......the community in which I live is a few miles from what is considered a "sacred site", by the LDS.  The community (Independence, MO) is apparently where the Church split, back in the late 19Th century.  One group following Brigham Young on to Utah, and the remainder returning to Illinois, with the son of Joseph Smith.

We have a large number of LDS neighbors as a result, and by and large, they are all great folks.

I think that what stands out most in my mind regarding the LDS is that they really, really know how to build beautiful churches (with the exception of that neogothic pile in Salt Lake City).  Their church here in Independence is truly awe-inspiring, and the cathedral just off the beltway in Washington DC, is probably the most breathtaking sight (particularly lighted at night), that I've ever seen.  I'm certain that is their intent, however just looking at one of these architectural masterpieces makes one want to be a part of it.

I've read "The Book of Mormon", however, I know little about the ritual and dogma.

doc

[Hawk]

Interesting.......the community in which I live is a few miles from what is considered a "sacred site", by the LDS.  The community (Independence, MO) is apparently where the Church split, back in the late 19Th century.  One group following Brigham Young on to Utah, and the remainder returning to Illinois, with the son of Joseph Smith.

We have a large number of LDS neighbors as a result, and by and large, they are all great folks.

I think that what stands out most in my mind regarding the LDS is that they really, really know how to build beautiful churches (with the exception of that neogothic pile in Salt Lake City).  Their church here in Independence is truly awe-inspiring, and the cathedral just off the beltway in Washington DC, is probably the most breathtaking sight (particularly lighted at night), that I've ever seen.  I'm certain that is their intent, however just looking at one of these architectural masterpieces makes one want to be a part of it.

I've read "The Book of Mormon", however, I know little about the ritual and dogma.

doc

I agree they are good people as a whole. What you are talking about are their Temples. Not all member can enter the Temples. You have to go through an interview with the Bishop and the Stake president. You must pay a full 10% tithe, obey the word of wisdom (no coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco or harmful drugs), hold a calling, attend church regularly, and have a testimony of the truth of the gospel.

The figure at the top of the temple is the angel Moroni, who will herald the return of Jesus from the East, that is why he is facing east on every temple.

The reason genealogy is so important to Mormons is because in the temple work for the dead is carried out. They are vicariously baptized, etc for those who passed without knowing what they consider the true gospel so the can join them in the celestial kingdom.

They believe in three levels of heaven and outer darkness (being shut out of the presence of god).

I have been inside the Salt Lake Temple and I can tell you that inside it is one of the most beautiful buildings I have ever seen.

[TVDOC]

I agree they are good people as a whole. What you are talking about are their Temples. Not all member can enter the Temples. You have to go through an interview with the Bishop and the Stake president. You must pay a full 10% tithe, obey the word of wisdom (no coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco or harmful drugs), hold a calling, attend church regularly, and have a testimony of the truth of the gospel.

The figure at the top of the temple is the angel Moroni, who will herald the return of Jesus from the East, that is why he is facing east on every temple.

The reason genealogy is so important to Mormons is because in the temple work for the dead is carried out. They are vicariously baptized, etc for those who passed without knowing what they consider the true gospel so the can join them in the celestial kingdom.

They believe in three levels of heaven and outer darkness (being shut out of the presence of god).

I have been inside the Salt Lake Temple and I can tell you that inside it is one of the most beautiful buildings I have ever seen.

They have an extremely large library at the site in Independence.  Recently I was tasked with writing an academic paper (as yet unfinished, after over a year).  The subject that I chose was the LDS influence on the expansion of the Masonic Fraternity in the western US, and their library has a veritable treasure trove of innformation on the subject.  Their librarians required me to answer some somewhat non intrusive questions regarding my faith and purpose, however were very accommodating, and granted me access to all but the most personal of records on LDS elders at the time in question.

It was explained to me at the time, that the young researchers that were assigned to help my work were participating in their "calling".  I'll admit that there was a very subtle "missionary" aspect to their relationship with me........and it did leave me with a desire to learn more.  I really need to visit again.

doc

[Hawk]

They have an extremely large library at the site in Independence.  Recently I was tasked with writing an academic paper (as yet unfinished, after over a year).  The subject that I chose was the LDS influence on the expansion of the Masonic Fraternity in the western US, and their library has a veritable treasure trove of innformation on the subject.  Their librarians required me to answer some somewhat non intrusive questions regarding my faith and purpose, however were very accommodating, and granted me access to all but the most personal of records on LDS elders at the time in question.

It was explained to me at the time, that the young researchers that were assigned to help my work were participating in their "calling".  I'll admit that there was a very subtle "missionary" aspect to their relationship with me........and it did leave me with a desire to learn more.  I really need to visit again.

doc

Joseph Smith was a Mason. Many of the LDS temple rites are similar to those of the masons. The RLDS (Re-Organites) that you referred to thought the mantle of the Prophet should follow Joseph Smiths bloodline, the rest of the church maintained it should be a calling from God, thus the split.

Of course today there are polygamist split off as well. Some branches split over the fact that only men could hold the priesthood.

Overall the LDS still think polygamy is a principle of the gospel, but the main branch insists that members follow the law of the land. Polygamy wasn't even illegal until the LDS started practicing it, then the US outlawed it, splitting up a great many LDS families in the process. In the beginning there were several conflicts between the LDS and the US government. Google Porter Rockwell for fun. Once the entire city of Salt Lake was evacuated except for a man at every building with a torch, intended to burn their own town to the ground.

The Army just rode through and left, as there was a no win situation.

[debk]

They have an extremely large library at the site in Independence.  Recently I was tasked with writing an academic paper (as yet unfinished, after over a year).  The subject that I chose was the LDS influence on the expansion of the Masonic Fraternity in the western US, and their library has a veritable treasure trove of innformation on the subject.  Their librarians required me to answer some somewhat non intrusive questions regarding my faith and purpose, however were very accommodating, and granted me access to all but the most personal of records on LDS elders at the time in question.

It was explained to me at the time, that the young researchers that were assigned to help my work were participating in their "calling".  I'll admit that there was a very subtle "missionary" aspect to their relationship with me........and it did leave me with a desire to learn more.  I really need to visit again.

doc

I was reading a while back, that the LDS has been one of the biggest and most accurate contributors to geneology information in the United States.

[TVDOC]

Joseph Smith was a Mason. Many of the LDS temple rites are similar to those of the masons. The RLDS (Re-Organites) that you referred to thought the mantle of the Prophet should follow Joseph Smiths bloodline, the rest of the church maintained it should be a calling from God, thus the split.

He was actually "Master" of the Masonic Temple in Liberty, MO (twice).  Many of the Elders that went either way during and after the split were also Masons.  Brigham Young founded at least a dozen Masonic Lodges (that I've found so far) from Denver to Boise, ID.

Of course today there are polygamist split off as well. Some branches split over the fact that only men could hold the priesthood.

Overall the LDS still think polygamy is a principle of the gospel, but the main branch insists that members follow the law of the land. Polygamy wasn't even illegal until the LDS started practicing it, then the US outlawed it, splitting up a great many LDS families in the process. In the beginning there were several conflicts between the LDS and the US government. Google Porter Rockwell for fun. Once the entire city of Salt Lake was evacuated except for a man at every building with a torch, intended to burn their own town to the ground.

The Army just rode through and left, as there was a no win situation.

The polygamy issue (based on what I've read) was an issue here in Missouri as well.  However, the Church was not nearly as oppressed here as they were in prior areas that they settled in their journey from the east. Largely the issue with the LDS here, during that time, was that non-LDS folks became uncomfortable with what they perceived as the Church having too much political clout in local affairs.

One must remember that this was the "wild west"  at the time, and the nexus of several trails used by the wagon trains heading to California.  It goes without saying that a large group of very pious believers (regardless of religion) might have a hard time with the locals.

doc

[Hawk]

I was reading a while back, that the LDS has been one of the biggest and most accurate contributors to geneology information in the United States.

Their geneology library is unsurpassed. One of the standard assignments of the youth is to do a 4 generation chart.

[TVDOC]

I was reading a while back, that the LDS has been one of the biggest and most accurate contributors to geneology information in the United States.

Actually in the world.......

I understand that they have amassed the largest database of family information that exists.......not sure why, but they maintain records on everyone, LDS or not.

doc

[Hawk]

He was actually "Master" of the Masonic Temple in Liberty, MO (twice).  Many of the Elders that went either way during and after the split were also Masons.  Brigham Young founded at least a dozen Masonic Lodges (that I've found so far) from Denver to Boise, ID.

The polygamy issue (based on what I've read) was an issue here in Missouri as well.  However, the Church was not nearly as oppressed here as they were in prior areas that they settled in their journey from the east. Largely the issue with the LDS here, during that time, was that non-LDS folks became uncomfortable with what they perceived as the Church having too much political clout in local affairs.

One must remember that this was the "wild west"  at the time, and the nexus of several trails used by the wagon trains heading to California.  It goes without saying that a large group of very pious believers (regardless of religion) might have a hard time with the locals.

doc

Missouri is a special place to the Mormons, they believe it was the original place of the Garden of Eden and also the place it will be restored. Yes, it was much rougher in New York for the Mormons as far as persecution goes.

[IassaFTots]

Actually in the world.......

I understand that they have amassed the largest database of family information that exists.......not sure why, but they maintain records on everyone, LDS or not.

doc

Back in days before PC's, my Grandmother worked on our Family history, by mailing off requests for info, and spending time in various libraries.  She has us back to the 1500's, and she said that was mostly because of the good recordkeeping of the Mormons.

[Hawk]

Actually in the world.......

I understand that they have amassed the largest database of family information that exists.......not sure why, but they maintain records on everyone, LDS or not.

doc

It is their belief that we are all related through the common ancestors Adam and Eve. They take the responsibility to do the required work in the temples very seriously. They believe that as they are being baptized for the dead that the dead are watching and at that time can either accept or reject the rituals.

There is a verse in Corinthians or Corinthians II where Paul touches on the subject.

"Else why are we baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all?"

[TVDOC]

Missouri is a special place to the Mormons, they believe it was the original place of the Garden of Eden and also the place it will be restored. Yes, it was much rougher in New York for the Mormons as far as persecution goes.

A plot (about two acres would be my guess....empty, but  impeccably maintained land) directly across the street from the Temple here.  On which rests a marble monument with a gold plaque describing the future event.........

doc

[Hawk]

Back in days before PC's, my Grandmother worked on our Family history, by mailing off requests for info, and spending time in various libraries.  She has us back to the 1500's, and she said that was mostly because of the good recordkeeping of the Mormons.

Sadly, even when I was a member I didn't take full advantage of the resources to do some of my own. I wish now I had.

[Hawk]

Off to the Stampede! Thanks for the discussion.