The Conservative Cave
Interests => Religious Discussions => Topic started by: Karin on July 03, 2012, 03:18:26 PM
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I just read the New Testament start to finish.
I was raised a Methodist, and my parents had us focus mainly on Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. They never really encouraged us to read Revelations, and I never had. I have some problems with Revelations. It sounds like a bad dream of some guy with food poisoning. I cannot reconcile the idea of a loving God to the terror and pain of Armageddon, where even suicide would be elusive.
Why those people? What about all the other people who died before them, they get off scot-free? It just doesn't make sense to me.
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No disrespect, ma'am; but your post struck me as serious and worthy of discussion in its own right and I felt trying to maintain fidelty to both your topic and the topic of the thread in which you posted would be juggling theological chainsaws.
I apologize if that is interpreted as a slight against you; I assure it is not.
That being said: Not every sect of Christianity accepts Revelations as canon.
Revelations also describes a period of time when God has wholly abandoned the world. That concept alone conjures images of Hell on Earth.
Some theorists claim the phases of The Alpaca-Lips coincide with the Hebrew liturgical calendar...and they're right.
Others have noted it is heavily influenced by pagan imagery...and they're right.
Personally, I find the book rather contemptible; not because of any presumed cruelty (It isn't. A world without God has long been humanity's wish; they should enjoy it while it lasts) or canonical debate but because it turns otherwise nice people into misguided, single-minded assholes.
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Name the 4-horsemen of the Apocalypse.
1- Barack Obama
2- Bill Ayers
3- Eric Holder
4- Nancy Polosei
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Name the 4-horsemen of the Apocalypse.
1- Barack Obama
2- Bill Ayers
3- Eric Holder
4- Nancy Polosei
The writer of Revelations must have by mistake eaten a few magic mushrooms. Not only is the book very odd to us 2,000 years later but was odd to the people that first read it.
Had the writer at the time put his words into at that time understandable language for those who read or were read to them as the rest of the Bible is, we would not have spent 2,000 years trying to decipher what, when, how and where.
Much like Nostradamus we still labor to figure out what the writer was saying and bring relevance of the writers visions into today's world. -------- How do we know all things on a minor scale has not all ready happend some where in the world?? Only thing of relevance to us today is the plains of Armageddon and just where on earth are these plains ????? Why the Middle East, interesting as this was the known world to the writers, sure they knew of other cultures in their limited world but had not spent any amount of time living among them.
Lets see, we have mention of a Bear, northern Europe, a Dragon, could be China, the Eagle must be Rome, and
the Lion, was this Ethiopia and the Lion or Judah ????
If anyone can interpret Revelations to the correct meaning, there is a Pulitzer Prize in the making.
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God is Love. God is also Justice. His mercy upon some people does not require His mercy upon all people.
Revelations is no more weird than the Old Testament prophets. We can read Daniel now and see history conform to his prophecies, for example. The best OT scholars before Christ believed He would be a war leader to set His people free in this world, not to set all people free of sin. We may not understand Revelations from this side of history, but after it's over, even humans would be able to figure it out.
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No slight interpreted, Snugs. Thanks to all for your replies.
Another problem I had was with the collective justice/punishment. I don't have it in front of me, so I'm paraphrasing. The writer says something like: To the _____ people, write this: I know the good works you've done, but you've also tolerated that Jezebel in your midst. Punishment be yours."
What's up with that?
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Revelation was written by John at the time when the Romans (Nero) were persecuting Christians. John wrote it while hiding on the island of Patmos. He is said to have had visits from angels who told him what would be happening.
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I find Revelation comforting and inspiring.
What should I want? A world where those who reject Christ and do all manner of evil are just sent to heaven anyway? Is that what you want. Evil to triumph?
Revelation is a warning. There is a judgement day. It's coming and it's certain. Right now we are in a period of grace. At God's discretion, the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised. Satan and his minions will be cast forever into the lake of fire, and everyone who loves and serves him instead of Jesus.
Then there will be a new heavens and a new earth and perfect peace between God and man. I can't wait.
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I find Revelation comforting and inspiring.
What should I want? A world where those who reject Christ and do all manner of evil are just sent to heaven anyway? Is that what you want. Evil to triumph?
Revelation is a warning. There is a judgement day. It's coming and it's certain. Right now we are in a period of grace. At God's discretion, the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised. Satan and his minions will be cast forever into the lake of fire, and everyone who loves and serves him instead of Jesus.
Then there will be a new heavens and a new earth and perfect peace between God and man. I can't wait.
I also find it comforting and relaxing. Next to John, it is my favorite book of the Bible.
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No slight interpreted, Snugs. Thanks to all for your replies.
Another problem I had was with the collective justice/punishment. I don't have it in front of me, so I'm paraphrasing. The writer says something like: To the _____ people, write this: I know the good works you've done, but you've also tolerated that Jezebel in your midst. Punishment be yours."
What's up with that?
OK, as I understand it the letters are to different churches. Each carried a certain "spiritual disposition" and so they were allegories of the dispositions of the Christian community as a whole. As Revs is a book of imagery and generalization it seems against the grain to claim it suddenly speaks to specific people.
I will say that "collective punishment" is a hard concept to draw out of any Biblical text. We all die and few of us get to die pleasingly. God sends rain to the Unjust as much as He sends it to the Just but the corrollary says the Just also know Drought, Plague and Famine. The Devil owns this world because humanity signed away its birthright for less than a few magic beans.
You aren't born for a pony, you are born to die. What happens in-between is your choice. You have no promises of peace and plenty because then you would not be a child of God, you would be a spoiled brat. But if you choose to love God through all the misery this world can--and will--bring then what will emerge on the other side of the veil?
A creature that even Zues would tremble before.
Picture boys leaving for Basic Training in the army and then returning home as men.
What Revelations reveals isn't collective punishment but humanity gaining what it has collectively desired. Sometimes you don't get a pony, sometimes you get 4 and they have riders atop them with unpleasant sounding names.
Now, I have to insert the usual disclaimers: 1) Revelations is not universally accepted as canon and 2) I'm not a Bible scholar, I just play one at the local church singles meets