Survival Situaton

[franksolich]

Wouldn't olive trees grow well out there?

Oh my.

You wanted a long thread, and you got one, sir.

Congratulations!

[The Village Idiot]

Floyd will be screwed as he lives in a metro area. I don't know if he has friends/ family in the rural areas.

SIL's parents have 11 acres with a pond outside of Terrel! That sounds good as long as we have ammo. Still a bit close to a major metro area though

[The Village Idiot]

Damn, it's like this place has turned into Megaton City. 

I liked that game... I think its was #3

[The Village Idiot]

House is on a knoll, a grassy knoll, and has stone walls for 3 of the 4 walls on the first floor. I got's me a well and pressure tanks. Mature tress surround the house, some fruit, mostly pine. Barn with 4 horse stalls, chicken coop. Big flat area fenced off from the bigger, less flat area with house on another flat area above. It's been fenced and gated with an electric top wire for horses. I have a few neighbors and they mostly have the same or much bigger sized lots and homes. The Ruger manufacturing plant is right down the road and Chino Valley is packed cheek to jowl with gun shops, smiths, specialists, hand loaders, training facilities and guide services. Please believe me when I say that obtaining gunz n' ammo won't be an issue. Hhhmm. If bullets become currency, I may find myself living in quite a cosmopolitan setting after all.

I think the town library was originally constructed out of spare ammunition and saltpeter.

Cool.

[The Village Idiot]

Oh my.

You wanted a long thread, and you got one, sir.

Congratulations!

I doubt this whole topic would have been as popular a few years ago. But with the economy and the idiots in charge, it does look like some grim times for at least a few years.

[Aaron Burr]

O.K. about that well. Sure I'm going to need an alternative source of power. As mentioned, solar and wind would work. But I'm a fan of machinery so I'm going with a big fat sterling engine to power a dynamo to produce electricity to run the pump to keep my corrupt and corpulent slag heap of a body less stinkafied.

But first I need to close on the property. 

Chino Valley Arizona sits on top of a giant aquifer. It's so big that it serves as the headwaters of the Verde river. Look on Mapquest for Chino and you'll see the river dumping out all over the ground up by Paulden. We've got lakes and mountains, forests and enormous tracks of open grassland. Best of all is the location. I live in no-wheresville daddy-o and I love it.

If I could figure out how to capture a picture off of Mapquest I'd post the aerial shot of the spread. That way everybody could tell me where to put the outdoor oven, smokehouse, icehouse and pig sty.

And just for the record, I'm doing this not because I think the whole world is going to Hell in a hand basket but because I want a different lifestyle.

Plus, I want a Cowboy hat.

[IassaFTots]

And just for the record, I'm doing this not because I think the whole world is going to Hell in a hand basket but because I want a different lifestyle.

Plus, I want a Cowboy hat.

Good for you!  I am on that path, and hope to be somewhere like that within the next 10 years, provided the Mayans were wrong, and the S hasn't HTF yet. 

[Thor]

First of all, a REAL cowboy EARNS their hat........

I'd keep the outdoor over, smokehouse and ice house fairly close to the house (within 25 yards). The Pig sty I would put far enough away from the house as to avoid any drifting or wafting odors from it, but close enough to draw a bead on any trespassers after your pigs.

While machinery is fine, you would require something to power said machinery, such as gas or diesel. Those will run out or not be available fairly quickly. You need to think back to the 1800s, when machinery wasn't all that popular or necessary. Solar or wind (windmills work quite nicely when there IS a breeze). In the SW, solar would be pretty practical as you have many more sunny days than not. Also, contemplate solar water heating. I remember when I was in Desert Storm. WE has natural hot water because of the heat. I rarely used the hot water in the showers as the "cold" water was sufficiently hot.

[Aaron Burr]

No,no. I can assure you that all I have to do is go down to the local boot barn and pick out a hat. I've done it before so I know that method works.

But sterling engines have been around since 1895.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBZDJn6B0cs&feature=PlayList&p=A95452048044BEF7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3[/youtube]

Or I could go with an 8 stroke old timey engine. If I didn't have a fire source, I'd use a Fresnel lens to heat the engine. But yeah. I plan on coasting though the Apocalypse in my 62' Chevy and clean underwear.

And speaking of coasting though something... how did we get this far without posting any recipes? Let's start with the essentials. Bacon.

Anybody know how to slaughter a hog, dress the meat and smoke it? How long will a side of smoked bacon last?

[LC EFA]

When you are off the grid - petroleum products are like gold.

You're going to have to use more old fashioned direct motivation products like steam, wind and horse to drive most things - lathes and tools , pumps , mills , tilling and planting machines etc.

One can produce alcohol or methane fuels (methane is especially convenient if you also grow ruminants) which can be burned either as heating fuel for a boiler or in a remanufactured internal combustion engine.

My main concern has been refrigeration - without that in this climate and you must pretty much preserve everything off directly off the field all year round. Which brings me to something that many non-coastal dwellers may not have considered.

Salt. Where do you get it if you don't live on the coast ?

[Thor]

[Texan] Well, maybe in AZ. Those "cowboys" that just go out and buy a hat without properly "earning' it are usually referred to as "Rexall Raiders" or "Drugstore Cowboys". This is also how the adage, "all hat and no cattle" came into being. [/Texan]


As far as smoking hog belly sidemeat, one needs a smoker. Then, they need to make sure that they can "cold" smoke something. That entails re-routing the smoke away from the heat into a different smoking vessel. As far as it "lasting", I would suppose that it would last as long as a smoked, salt cured ham. Once cut into, then the  "keep rate" would diminish. I couldn't find a definitive answer on that. I DO know that Virginia Hams are smoked and salt cured and last quite a while. Any mold is then cut off, the ham is  soaked in water or milk to reduce it's saltiness and then cooked. Once cooked and carved for serving, they tend to only last a week, maybe two in the fridge.

LC EFA, there are salt mines that are inland. I have one not too far from here in Texas (3 Hr Drive in today's world): http://www.grandsaline.com/edb/salt01.htm

[Aaron Burr]

Burrs' Trading Post already has a drayage contract with Camp Verde across the valley. They've got a salt mine. But that is an excellent point, people need to know where salt licks are, or how to pump it out from underground. Just one more reason that a cohesive neighborhood would stand a far better chance of survival than a loner. Teamwork allows for specialization. So while I'm off squashin' Agave to get Tequila juice, Floyd can take the hay cart across the valley, dodging Injuns', Mad max dudes on motorcycles and revenue agents, whom I have no doubt, would survive the atomization of this entire planet. All so I can have some fuggin' salt on my spaghetti.

As far as the hat goes, I figure a big 10 gallon one would be a good place to keep my lunch. Besides, we're talking post Apocalypse. People with cowboy hats will be looked upon as natural civic leaders. Therefore, I may wear several right on top of each other. After a few hunting seasons I will most likely switch over to a war bonnet made of eagle feathers, maybe one of those buffalo horn dealies Dustin Hoffman wore in Little Big Man.

And really? No tips on how to capture a Mapquest image?

[Thor]

I loathe Mapquest. Google maps has a way to provide a link to a satellite image, I think. You could always right click the image, save it to your PC, upload it to a photo sharing site such as Photobucket and post a link from there.

[Aaron Burr]

Mapquest has better resolution for my area. I tried saving the image but it comes up blank. I'll try again. It's a nice area though.

[LC EFA]

...
And really? No tips on how to capture a Mapquest image?

You can capture the part of it that's displayed on your screen - by pushing the PrtScr button on your keyboard when what you want to capture is displayed. Then open up mspaint or your preferred program and click edit - paste (or Ctl-V) to dump that capture in there.

Edit it to remove anything you don't eant displayed and save it as a jpeg.

[Aaron Burr]

Just checking to see if this works....

[Aaron Burr]

Excellent, or as the kids say...groovy.

So, Casa De Burr, AKA Black Oaks, has trees, water, barn, coop, open space and room for a bowling alley. Neighbors already have pigs and horses, so I won't stand out for having other animals.

To the right of the property is 4 acres possibly for sale and across the dirt road is another 3 definitely for sale. To my left are hills full of tasty critters and across the valley is the salt mine. I'll go get some books on self sufficiency and once we get out of escrow at the end of the month we'll have the general contractor and the plumber come over to bring everything up to code. Once all that's done we'll start setting up the alternative power plant, smokehouse, solarium, wood oven and whatever else I'll conceivably need to entertain Frank Solich on his buggy whip tour across post Apocalyptic America.

I'll have all my Umpa Lumpas lined up for inspection

[The Village Idiot]

Just checking to see if this works....

Beautiful!!

[Thor]

We need a new category for this thread, I think.

Anyways, did anybody watch Apocalypse Man?? What are y'all's thoughts??

[Aaron Burr]

It is an epic thread. We've pretty much tried to cover every conceivable scenario that might be of interest to the potential survival of whatever apocalyptic scenario Floyd has planned for Joe and Jane American. Everything from locating real estate, animal husbandry and apiary pursuits to proper etiquette concerning hats, or hatiquette, as it were.

I figure it will come down to cooking oil, which I'll use olives and lard for, and grain. I can grow taters and yams, herbs and fruit trees, raise some chickens, but that's about it. The agave won't need much water or care but where I live isn't ideal for grain or rice production. Once again Mr.E will be spending more quality time in the hammock as the denizens of Galts Gulch barter black powder and hides for wheat.

But if someone can figure a better use for the above piece of land, knock yourselves out.

On Edit: If only Floyd had asked for more recipes we would still be in the all things edible forum instead of down here in the slightly creepy Armageddon and Survivalism forum.  It's just as well I suppose, I wasn't looking forward to reading the 87 different ways to cook grubs over an open dung pattie fire.

[The Village Idiot]

But if someone can figure a better use for the above piece of land, knock yourselves out.

When I said mideival times, I meant eventually. Once the economy collapses we might become a 3rd world country, but that will send shockwaves around the world. Africa will depopulate rather quickly as nobody sends them any food aid. The technological level of man is likely to drop for a while and wars will erupt for natural resources. Will the US still be able to do much if China takes the Spratley Islands? Hong Kong? Heck, maybe even most of Asia?

The cities will erupt in riots and starvation, the useless government will collapse. This is when TSHTF for real. It will be all out hand to hand combat in the cities and even the suburbs for a bag of chips. It won't be long before mass exodus from the cities and metro areas begin, this is when you guys have to step up and whack a bunch of baddies. Maybe even hiring some of the smarter and more polite ones as sentry guards, farm workers and Umpa Lumpas.

Over a few generations the country and the world will drop from the old west to even more primitive levels. Eventually we may reach the mideival times or even the Roman Empire type of technology level. The knowledge lost will be incalcuble.

[The Village Idiot]

and now we have our own section to play in!

[Thor]

Perhaps chivalry may make a comeback?? I don't see us digressing much more than the old west era. If anything, I see the US ripe for a take over by some other country, probably China. Who can say, though?? Of course, if we are forced off the grid, it may be due to another country's meddling or influence. Once off the grid, we could be easily overtaken. That will be the time when Americans will have to prove what we're made of.

[Aaron Burr]

Is that what's bothering you? Don't worry my friend, it won't get that bad. Rich people won't let it get that bad. Rich people like creature comforts and tummy tucks and personal watercraft. If America doesn't have at least one orbiting casino by the time Aaron Jr. is old enough to gamble in outer space, and this is after the great American meltdown, then I'd be pretty fuggin' depressed.

Did the world slip into permanent chaos as a result of the depression and two world wars? No, we went on to litter the Moon and invent adult book stores and deep fried snickers bars.

But I'll play along.

It's 2020. 4 years after President Chelsea Clinton failed to protect America from the disaster that befell the planet after it passed through the tail of a dirty comet. No mo' electricity grid and essential services have gone to pot.

But I'm chillin' down in Black Oaks because my alternative power and gardening skills keep me fat and happy. I got's a salt lick near by and plenty of game to shoot. Eventually me and the rest of the survivors will get bored and build a barn to have a dance in and society will take off from there.

I just cant accept the other premise for this scenario because it always ends up looking like the ending of The Omega Man.

But just thinking about all the herbs and junk I'll need to make pancakes, bacon and O.J. on a daily basis really makes me lean towards employing the few straggling survivors that made it out of Fohinex, up the 17, past the Black canyon shooting range, off the 17 to Dewey, Prescott Valley, Prescott and out to my place, as Umpa Lumpas.

I just won't have the time to clean the pool if I have to make candles out of bees wax and grind my own pepper corns.

[Thor]

AB, I dunno. Just because a group may be wealthy doesn't mean they can prevent  or survive the onslaught of a deadly disease, an asteroid hit or whatever else may come. Sure, they like their "toys" and fanciful life. IMO, it's that fanciful life that will get them killed. What WILL they do when money, gold, diamonds, etc have little or no value?? I can just see Paris Hilton trying to live off of the land. Hell, she couldn't hardly do any physical labor on her one show. I laughed my ass off at that spoiled little wench. (Her good looks MIGHT help her, but even then, a burden is a burden)