Author Topic: Survival Situaton  (Read 30454 times)

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Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #150 on: January 07, 2010, 12:04:58 AM »
I guess I was too flippant. What I meant was that people will be hard pressed to do without toilet paper and unnecessary junk like that forever. Peoples innate drive to better themselves and their situation will keep civilization up and running. It was one of the premises for the founding of this wicked awesome nation.

People who have real wealth, bullets, demonstrable skills, or just plain moxie will always be able to get other people to do stuff for them after any Apocalypse, thus creating some leisure time for themselves, and if all goes well after a few years, a leisure class as well.

And I'd pick Rome over the medieval period any day. Those dudes knew how to make the chariots run on schedule.
 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 12:11:23 AM by Aaron Burr »

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #151 on: January 07, 2010, 01:15:53 AM »
And I'd pick Rome over the medieval period any day. Those dudes knew how to make the chariots run on schedule.

Those Roman Centurions had some style points too. lol.

A strong castle on a steep hill would be nice in the aftermath.

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #152 on: January 07, 2010, 01:34:07 AM »
I'm pretty sure that last phrase was found on some ancient papyrus when the archeologists first dug out Masada.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #153 on: January 07, 2010, 01:38:11 AM »
I'm pretty sure that last phrase was found on some ancient papyrus when the archeologists first dug out Masada.

lol.

Thats true too.

Btw, did you forget about Liberty Fiction?, its seems to be a little vacant lately.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #154 on: January 07, 2010, 03:58:25 PM »
I'm pretty sure that last phrase was found on some ancient papyrus when the archeologists first dug out Masada.
Hey! I've been to Masada! Sorry, had to throw that out there. How many times can you use THAT in conversation. :-)
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

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No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #155 on: January 07, 2010, 04:55:16 PM »
Hopefully quite often, as long as you can steer the conversation towards the 10th Legion, the Sicarii rebels or Lucius Flavius Silva. Once your audience is hooked, then you can slowly reveal the horrific tale of bloody siege and mass suicide that the Sicariis' underwent.

And no Floyd, I haven't forgotten to keep you updated on my ongoing "unsanctioned" Polo matches. I have been somewhat distracted by this thread and a website that I have apparently inherited. EvilConservatives.org A website you will note, that is sadly lacking in Floyds membership.

But it's not all about mass suicide and obscure websites. We gots us a survival situation to deal with over here...one which I'll attend to shortly as I hear Aaron Jr. waking up.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 11:41:32 PM by Aaron Burr »

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #156 on: January 07, 2010, 05:28:15 PM »
And no Floyd, I haven't forgotten to keep you updated on my ongoing "unsanctioned" Polo matches. I have been somewhat distracted by this thread and a website that I have apparently inherited. EvilConservatives.org A website you will note, that is sadly lacking in Floyds membership.

I am now a member

Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #157 on: January 07, 2010, 09:41:58 PM »
Interesting read...if this were to ever happen, I would hope my parents were still alive.
They grew up living off the land, with chicken, goats, grains, and just about every vegetable that would grow beneath the sicilian sun.  When I visited, the streets were lined with sun dried tomatoes.
My parents canned everything from tomato sauce to eggplant, artichokes to orange marmalade.

My father still grows his vegetable garden and fruit trees...unfortunately, they never passed this knowledge on to me.  Maybe it's time I spend some time with them to learn..One never knows when this knowledge will come in handy.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #158 on: January 07, 2010, 11:13:33 PM »
Interesting read...if this were to ever happen, I would hope my parents were still alive.
They grew up living off the land, with chicken, goats, grains, and just about every vegetable that would grow beneath the sicilian sun.  When I visited, the streets were lined with sun dried tomatoes.
My parents canned everything from tomato sauce to eggplant, artichokes to orange marmalade.

My father still grows his vegetable garden and fruit trees...unfortunately, they never passed this knowledge on to me.  Maybe it's time I spend some time with them to learn..One never knows when this knowledge will come in handy.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Offline Carl

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #159 on: January 08, 2010, 07:43:03 AM »
I`m curious about something and didn`t read through every page here but if this is truly off the grid you have to remember that electricity/gasoline won`t be available.

Not only will you have to grow crops for your own consumption and animals but they will have to be such as can easily save seeds from to plant another year.
You don`t call up a seed company and order them.

If you want animals you obviously need 2 for that to replenish itself.
Keep in mind all male farm animals are nasty and ornery with a male bovine of any breed being one of the most dangerous animals in the country.
They will kill you for no other reason except you are there.

I would opt for potatoes to grow as any that are not consumed will sprout from the eyes and can be replanted.
Squash and pumpkins the same.
Corn will provide fodder for animals to eat as well as human consumption plus ears can be dried to replant.

For animals chickens will be a natural and can eat the corn.
Pigs will eat almost anything so spoiled tomatoes and other vegetables can be used for food.
They will farrow yearly with 4-8 piglets/litter so they reproduce well.
A note from past experience in real life...if you move your hog yard around it is quite likely that you will have tomatoes and other vegetables fit for transplanting growing in the previous years hog yard.
On that note pig and chicken manure are high in nitrogen and will make a good compost for fertilizer.
Two cows would consume quite a bit of feed and need large quantities of water daily.
Only one calf will be produced in a year and if something happened to it the cycle is thrown off.
It takes 13 months for a calf to mature to breed if it is a heifer and then 9 months gestation.
Too much of a gamble to rely on for a sustaining food source.

Just a few thoughts...grew up on a dairy farm so am familiar with the process.

Offline vesta111

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #160 on: January 08, 2010, 09:49:59 AM »
I`m curious about something and didn`t read through every page here but if this is truly off the grid you have to remember that electricity/gasoline won`t be available.

Not only will you have to grow crops for your own consumption and animals but they will have to be such as can easily save seeds from to plant another year.
You don`t call up a seed company and order them.

If you want animals you obviously need 2 for that to replenish itself.
Keep in mind all male farm animals are nasty and ornery with a male bovine of any breed being one of the most dangerous animals in the country.
They will kill you for no other reason except you are there.

I would opt for potatoes to grow as any that are not consumed will sprout from the eyes and can be replanted.
Squash and pumpkins the same.
Corn will provide fodder for animals to eat as well as human consumption plus ears can be dried to replant.

For animals chickens will be a natural and can eat the corn.
Pigs will eat almost anything so spoiled tomatoes and other vegetables can be used for food.
They will farrow yearly with 4-8 piglets/litter so they reproduce well.
A note from past experience in real life...if you move your hog yard around it is quite likely that you will have tomatoes and other vegetables fit for transplanting growing in the previous years hog yard.
On that note pig and chicken manure are high in nitrogen and will make a good compost for fertilizer.
Two cows would consume quite a bit of feed and need large quantities of water daily.
Only one calf will be produced in a year and if something happened to it the cycle is thrown off.
It takes 13 months for a calf to mature to breed if it is a heifer and then 9 months gestation.
Too much of a gamble to rely on for a sustaining food source.

Just a few thoughts...grew up on a dairy farm so am familiar with the process.

I am thinking about the Irish Potato Famine.   What went wrong there, storeys of whole family's starving to death.  May not hurt to read as much as possible about that tragedy.

Russia and the Famine they had 100 years ago, why, how did it start.

We have to look backward in time to learn the lessons of what to avoid.

As much as the climate changes year to year, the new crop diseases and the bug problem farmers will have a problem planting crops and protecting them with all organic growing.

Critter control -----In a box my mom found these weird whale bone thingamajigs that had been carved and were about 3 inches long.     The contraption was so old had yellowed through the ages to look like the teeth of an old man that smokes every day.

We were naturally very curious as the item was too big to be used as earrings.    Mom went on the hunt and found out what this item was used for.

Finally after a few months we found out we had an 18 century flee catcher.    Seems that men and woman would place a few drops of blood inside and the flees on their body's would run into the device for supper.
 These absolutely beautiful carved  flee catchers were hung from belts and both sexes placed them in their hats.---------Strange that these catchers we had had Asian carvings on them---someone in the family had brought them home on a sailing ship, I have never seen anything like them and the pair now live at the Peabody Museum in Mass. 

I have an old bright red well pump I bought for the garden, but I know how to use one and if I needed water from a well all I would need is a pipe attached and one cup of water to prime the sucker and all the water one needs.

Keep the old gray cells working, first know your capabilities what can you actually do, what is laying about the house that could be put to some valuable use-----like cast iron cook ware.

Just remember the food source if animal, it has to be fed and cared for.  With the snow up to our Butts if we have chickens and nothing to feed them------

How does one make bread withour Yeast or fat.?

Refrigeration is a huge problem, this is a very very new invention----Smoking, jerking, salting and other forms of perserving food, can you do any of the above .?

Light on the inside of whereever you live, where is that coming from.? 

You can have 40 acres of wheat but with no knowledge into how to turn it into flour what now.?

I hate to say this but from reading old medical texts, the big killer was back then WORMS.   Oh Yuck.   Kids today still get pin Worms's memory here ----Woman in the late 1900 actually swallowed tape worm eggs for weight control.

Read everything you can about the things that bedeviled humans in the past because these things will be there to make you miserable in what ever age you are in.








Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #161 on: January 08, 2010, 11:05:46 AM »
The Irish Potato Famine was caused by England. England controlled Ireland at the time, it made their laws for them. They soon had the island dependant on a single type of potato, bad idea. Their response with the work houses and stuff was classic government stupidity, ostensibly helping people by impoverishing them further. Or at least that is how I remember it.

Offline LC EFA

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #162 on: January 08, 2010, 04:01:10 PM »
I`m curious about something and didn`t read through every page here but if this is truly off the grid you have to remember that electricity/gasoline won`t be available.

Not only will you have to grow crops for your own consumption and animals but they will have to be such as can easily save seeds from to plant another year.
You don`t call up a seed company and order them.

If you want animals you obviously need 2 for that to replenish itself.
Keep in mind all male farm animals are nasty and ornery with a male bovine of any breed being one of the most dangerous animals in the country.
They will kill you for no other reason except you are there.

I would opt for potatoes to grow as any that are not consumed will sprout from the eyes and can be replanted.
Squash and pumpkins the same.
Corn will provide fodder for animals to eat as well as human consumption plus ears can be dried to replant.

For animals chickens will be a natural and can eat the corn.
Pigs will eat almost anything so spoiled tomatoes and other vegetables can be used for food.
They will farrow yearly with 4-8 piglets/litter so they reproduce well.
A note from past experience in real life...if you move your hog yard around it is quite likely that you will have tomatoes and other vegetables fit for transplanting growing in the previous years hog yard.
On that note pig and chicken manure are high in nitrogen and will make a good compost for fertilizer.
Two cows would consume quite a bit of feed and need large quantities of water daily.
Only one calf will be produced in a year and if something happened to it the cycle is thrown off.
It takes 13 months for a calf to mature to breed if it is a heifer and then 9 months gestation.
Too much of a gamble to rely on for a sustaining food source.

Just a few thoughts...grew up on a dairy farm so am familiar with the process.

This is the sort of response I was hoping for in here.

Most survivalist type scenarios are just that - survival.

I'm more focused in long term living without having the comforts of civilization as readily available.

Which is why I initially suggested pigs , goats and chickens as suitable stock for a small family or group oriented situation.

They're far less trouble than beef or dairy cattle to maintain, replenish and harvest.

I know a couple of people that grow them - every year the chicken run and the pig pen are relocated and the well fertilized ground is then great for growing all manner of things.

Life without the comforts and convenience of such things as electricity, veterinary services and agricultural supplies is possible but my grasp of it is mostly theoretical.

Offline Thor

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #163 on: January 08, 2010, 04:24:24 PM »
Ever hear of grass fed cattle?? Given enough grassland/ field, feeding a couple or three head of cattle wouldn't be all that tough. Of course, trying to acquire cattle AFTER TSHTF, they will be costly and will take a while to grow/ propagate. Cattle theft will be rampant, too. I would try to raise as many different feed animals as I could. I don't like pigs because they really stink. Feral hogs, OTOH, are plenty available in my neck of the woods. Being placed in a survival situation, I'd disregard any game laws and property rights, well, that would be on a case by case basis.
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Offline Carl

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #164 on: January 08, 2010, 04:47:00 PM »
Ever hear of grass fed cattle?? Given enough grassland/ field, feeding a couple or three head of cattle wouldn't be all that tough. Of course, trying to acquire cattle AFTER TSHTF, they will be costly and will take a while to grow/ propagate. Cattle theft will be rampant, too. I would try to raise as many different feed animals as I could. I don't like pigs because they really stink. Feral hogs, OTOH, are plenty available in my neck of the woods. Being placed in a survival situation, I'd disregard any game laws and property rights, well, that would be on a case by case basis.

Same here as far as whitetail deer.
I should have noted as you did acquiring the first years worth of seeds and the initial livestock take sort of an invisible leap of faith assuming that this was a sudden and out of the blue scenario.
I didn`t address the obvious issues there.

Offline Aaron Burr

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #165 on: January 08, 2010, 05:28:55 PM »
MORMONS!

We've completely forgotten about the demonstrated masters of survivin' in America. Once you join the clip on tie set set you get "counseled" to stock up a years supply of food. What's a Brigham Young graduate to do? These guys got ya' covered. Everything. Yup. Everything. Food, oil, goop to keep your gasoline from gunking up, waffle irons, apple presses....and even sweetener made from Agave. Damn I'm good.

Just save up for a few months and buy a years worth of food. We'll pick late October for the meltdown date. (It helps if we're all on the same page for something like this.)

And yes, I know people have linked to other food places, but these guys have everything. Except tobacco and we done got's a link for that already.

So I may end up even fatter after the Apocalypse. Hell, I wont even have to take off the bathrobe and dirty slippers. Ever.

I wonder if Frank Solich has ever taken a buggy whip ride past the Pleasant Hill Grain Company processing plant. I'm betting it's 30 story's of soot stained windows under a perpetual cloud of smoke.

Offline Thor

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #166 on: January 08, 2010, 05:39:19 PM »
I'm pretty sure I mentioned the Mormons early on. (Maybe in another forum, I forget) Either way, that's MY goal. A years worth of stockpiles of necessities. Some I can live without, like TP, but foodstuff, juices, coffee, and basic survival needs would be nice.
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

I AM your General Ne'er Do Well, Troublemaker & All Around Meanie!!

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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #167 on: January 08, 2010, 06:55:26 PM »
I'm pretty sure I mentioned the Mormons early on. (Maybe in another forum, I forget) Either way, that's MY goal. A years worth of stockpiles of necessities. Some I can live without, like TP, but foodstuff, juices, coffee, and basic survival needs would be nice.

I posted a link to a place selling "a years worth of food" based on a 3000 calorie diet, this said it did not include 4 gallons of cooking oil. This place sells dry beans like pinto's by bags of 25 to 100 pounds. Things you would never think of buying in bulk. Beef bullion, kind of like the stuff in the packets of Ramen Noodles. Good for stew too. They have 50 lb bags. They have everything from dried margarine to instant potato flakes. If someone could stock up this stuff in an underground survival bunker they would have time to grow their own food.

50 lb package of iodized salt. That might come in handy. Yeast?

https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/

Of course shipping would be expensive. heh. The front page doesn't look like much but the site is a doozy if your looking for things you won't have after TSHTF.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 06:59:12 PM by FGL »

Offline Chris

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #168 on: January 08, 2010, 07:05:04 PM »
A lot of that bulk stuff already gets used by restaurants (Sysco is a big bulk seller/distributor).  Hell, I'd buy some of that stuff just for convenience.  A 25-pound bag of pancake mix?  Count me in!
:lmao:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

Offline Thor

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #169 on: January 08, 2010, 08:42:59 PM »
I posted a link to a place selling "a years worth of food" based on a 3000 calorie diet, this said it did not include 4 gallons of cooking oil. This place sells dry beans like pinto's by bags of 25 to 100 pounds. Things you would never think of buying in bulk. Beef bullion, kind of like the stuff in the packets of Ramen Noodles. Good for stew too. They have 50 lb bags. They have everything from dried margarine to instant potato flakes. If someone could stock up this stuff in an underground survival bunker they would have time to grow their own food.

50 lb package of iodized salt. That might come in handy. Yeast?

https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/

Of course shipping would be expensive. heh. The front page doesn't look like much but the site is a doozy if your looking for things you won't have after TSHTF.

They have most of that stuff at Sam's Club or COSTCO. I keep beef & chicken base on hand. It tastes better than bullion and cooks better. It also stores easily. Yeast is finicky. There is one kind that stores well and lasts long. Most of it doesn't because yeast is a live bacteria. Dried noodles would be a good thing to store, mainly spaghetti noodles as the rest may take up too much room. Potato flakes are good storage items.

My next project is to dehydrate some beef and then vacuum seal it. I may pursue other meats, too.

Chris, I'd opt for a baking mix because pancake mix is less adaptable. BUT, that, too, will go "bad" after too long a time (the ingredients will just not work right)
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

I AM your General Ne'er Do Well, Troublemaker & All Around Meanie!!

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."-Thomas Jefferson

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Survival Situaton
« Reply #170 on: January 08, 2010, 09:05:25 PM »
Where ver you get it, it would come in handy in a bad situation