Wifi Rocks

[kenth]

We're moving in the next couple of days, and the phone/internet is already off. But the lure of the Internet is just too great. Thank goodness there's a generous neighbor who opens up his wifi connection. It's about 200 yards away, but through the woods so the signal needed a little boost.

Those are custom dish mounting shoes btw.

[Chris]

[Thor]

So........ is leeching an internet connection theft or not if it is unsecured??

[kenth]

I think permission plays the biggest part in answering that question. Of course if you take the question at face value, with leeching, then yeah, leeching would be stealing their bandwidth.

[Oceander]

So........ is leeching an internet connection theft or not if it is unsecured??

Probably more like trespassing.  I don't have to keep an eight-foot high wall around my entire yard in order to have a reasonable expectation that others won't trespass on my front yard, do I?

[Thor]

Actually, as easy as it is to use some form of encryption/ password to access a network, if someone leaves  their wifi open, that tells me that they just don't care. My wireless router is password protected.

[Oceander]

Actually, as easy as it is to use some form of encryption/ password to access a network, if someone leaves  their wifi open, that tells me that they just don't care. My wireless router is password protected.

Ok, as easy as it is for me to put a couple of sticks in the ground and run a piece of twine at waist-height around them, does my failure to do so constitute an implicit license for you to walk across my front yard as you see fit?

[Thor]

If your wifi crosses my property line and it wasn't secured, isn't that a way to say, "use me"?? OTOH, were I to cross YOUR property to access YOUR wifi, that's a whole 'nother story.

[bkg]

It's legally theft. Pretty decent consequences. There was a case in FL a couple of years ago - pretty sure the dude went to jail.

[Thor]

Either way, I have my own internet and my own wifi, (secured) so I'm good. However, if someone doesn't secure their "property" when it crosses onto someone else's property, then, IMO, that is their problem by allowing it to be used. Now, were I to possibly go on their property to use their "stuff" without permission, that would constitute theft, IMO.

[bkg]

Either way, I have my own internet and my own wifi, (secured) so I'm good. However, if someone doesn't secure their "property" when it crosses onto someone else's property, then, IMO, that is their problem by allowing it to be used. Now, were I to possibly go on their property to use their "stuff" without permission, that would constitute theft, IMO.

How do you know that it's crossing into your property and it's not your wifi card crossing into your neighbors? Just saying.

While I don't necessarily disagree on premise, precedent states that it's theft.

[Thor]

How do you know that it's crossing into your property and it's not your wifi card crossing into your neighbors? Just saying.

While I don't necessarily disagree on premise, precedent states that it's theft.

Actually, I think that you're wrong, at least in many states. An interesting read is here: http://www.cybertelecom.org/broadband/wifisecurity.htm

Texas and Minnesota have no such laws, to date.

[DUtroll]

In several states this is considered illegal. Although, it's unlikely you will be caught.

Regardless, if the network is unsecured, then all of your data is being transmitted in plain text which allows others to read every single solitary website you visit, comments you post, IM conversations, emails you send and receive, and user names and passwords - get the point? You don't even have to be associated with the access point to read everything that is sent in plain text - you simply need to enable monitor mode on your wifi card using specialized software, and you too can see everything that noobs are transmitting in the air. WEP is equally worthless.

Additionally, this significantly opens your computer up to attack and compromise. Personally, I never authenticate to a network unless it's encrypted using WPA2.

[The Village Idiot]

1. Yes wifi does rock

2. People use open wifi connections all the time

I remember the early days people would park in front of peoples homes to use their open wifi.I remember a WSJ story about it.

Anyway there is a Mexican restauraunt near here with a wifi coonection

[Thor]

1. Yes wifi does rock

2. People use open wifi connections all the time

I remember the early days people would park in front of peoples homes to use their open wifi.I remember a WSJ story about it.

That's called, "war driving".........

[rich_t]

That's called, "war driving".........

IIRC it is illegal in my state.

[The Village Idiot]

IIRC it is illegal in my state.

It probably wasn't illegal at the time the WSJ article I read.

[rich_t]

It probably wasn't illegal at the time the WSJ article I read.

That is quite possible.

[Chris_]

I did this a few months ago when my  router crapped out.....my neighbor offered me access to hers, and simply gave me her password, and when mine was repaired, she went in to her router setup, and changed the password to a new one.......the router remained encrypted for the entire time......

She did volunteer her permission, and password, so technically it is no different from me giving my kids our password, when they visit, so their laptops can use our system......

Gaining access without permission is another matter altogether......

doc

[The Village Idiot]

She did volunteer her permission, and password, so technically it is no different from me giving my kids our password, when they visit, so their laptops can use our system......

Gaining access without permission is another matter altogether......

I always wondered if an apartment complex could earn a few extra bucks offering wifi to residents for cheaper than they can get it themselves. Can a system have different passwords for different users?

Cuz I don't know.

[Thor]

I always wondered if an apartment complex could earn a few extra bucks offering wifi to residents for cheaper than they can get it themselves. Can a system have different passwords for different users?

Cuz I don't know.

Typically, no. Besides, without a lot of equipment investment, cabling, etc. it would have to be a relatively small apartment. One CAN manage access to a router through mac addresses.

[DUtroll]

I always wondered if an apartment complex could earn a few extra bucks offering wifi to residents for cheaper than they can get it themselves. Can a system have different passwords for different users?

Cuz I don't know.

Use a radius server and bridge access points. Done. They even have hosted radius servers that you can manage remotely through an administrative panel. This solves the encryption problem, and everyone has their own separate password. I know an apartment complex that is doing this as we speak.

But with this problem solved, you still have a handful of other issues. Everyone is on the same LAN - nothing stops other users from launching MITM attacks, vulnerability scanning, etc., so in my opinion, from a security standpoint it is unethical to provide such a service without informing customers of the increased risks of such a network model. IMO, authenticating to a LAN with untrusted hosts is like swimming with piranha.

There are other ways this could be done, to enhance security and allow for proper traffic shaping. But as Thor suggested - it gets more complex.

[The Village Idiot]

But with this problem solved, you still have a handful of other issues. Everyone is on the same LAN - nothing stops other users from launching MITM attacks, vulnerability scanning, etc., so in my opinion, from a security standpoint it is unethical to provide such a service without informing customers of the increased risks of such a network model. IMO, authenticating to a LAN with untrusted hosts is like swimming with piranha.

There are other ways this could be done, to enhance security and allow for proper traffic shaping. But as Thor suggested - it gets more complex.

Thanks, I was just wondering about that.