I've changed my mind.

[Duke Nukum]

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

VM While I agree with your opinion on both of those families. If the Catholic church were to just start excommunicating people for being "cafeteria catholics" there wouldn't be much of a church left here in the US. The majority of catholics in this country do not follow the churches doctrine to the letter.

Better to sacrifice your principles for a larger congregation. 

Makes sense.

Just one question: If you (anyone) don't agree with Catholicism, why (pretend to) be a Catholic?

I always agree with that, that a club as the right to set it's own rules.  And it's not like in the old days or most of recorded history where one can be tortured for having the "wrong" beliefs or believing things contrary to the current king or whatever, so instead of trying to reform a club you don't agree with, start your own club or join an existing one that shares your values.

If one thinks killing babies is a-okay or starving people based on one's opinion their intelligence or inconvenience, there's always Planned Parenthood or the Church of Scientology.

Plenty o' choices to go around these days and people still choose, well the majority of them anyway, to be unhappy.  And the funny thing is, most people choose to be unhappy about what other people choose to believe and those same people choose to be unhappy right back at them.  As if in the big, wide, vast, wonderful world or Universe, there is only one way to think about things.  And if the social milieu we were born into doesn't agree with how we think now, then it has to change!  

[Chris_]

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

VM While I agree with your opinion on both of those families. If the Catholic church were to just start excommunicating people for being "cafeteria catholics" there wouldn't be much of a church left here in the US. The majority of catholics in this country do not follow the churches doctrine to the letter.

Better to sacrifice your principles for a larger congregation. 

Makes sense.

Just one question: If you (anyone) don't agree with Catholicism, why (pretend to) be a Catholic?

Free, I don't necessarily think it's a matter of not agreeing with the church,more so that people are imperfect and fail at it on occasion. You mentioned being catholic at one time. Did you always follow the doctrine to the letter? If so then you are rare in this country. I also believe that when it comes to faith some people really lean on the tradition of it all. Picking and choosing the doctrine based on what they agree with. Freewill.....it is a bitch! :-)

I don't know why this is so difficult for people.  By doctrine and catechism, when you break the rules and DO NOT accept your sin, ask forgiveness, and promise NOT TO SIN AGAIN, then you remove yourself spiritually from the Church. You cease to be a Catholic in the eyes of God.

This isn't my "judgment" -- is CANONICAL.

If you don't agree with what the Church says, fine -- leave the Church: You already have anyway.  If you believe that abortion is OK, then you are NOT a Catholic.  Whether you go to Mass, perform the Sacraments, and go through the motions, that just means you are a poseur. God kicks you out, since He sees all.

There is a name for a cafeteria Catholic: a Protestant.

At least be honest with yourself and God.

That s why I left the Church -- I found too many illogicalities, even though I believe in God and His Son, Christ.  I could have stayed, but to what end?

Just because The Church in the US has become corrupt and survival-oriented doesn't change Doctrine.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

VM While I agree with your opinion on both of those families. If the Catholic church were to just start excommunicating people for being "cafeteria catholics" there wouldn't be much of a church left here in the US. The majority of catholics in this country do not follow the churches doctrine to the letter.

Better to sacrifice your principles for a larger congregation. 

Makes sense.

Just one question: If you (anyone) don't agree with Catholicism, why (pretend to) be a Catholic?

Free, I don't necessarily think it's a matter of not agreeing with the church,more so that people are imperfect and fail at it on occasion. You mentioned being catholic at one time. Did you always follow the doctrine to the letter? If so then you are rare in this country. I also believe that when it comes to faith some people really lean on the tradition of it all. Picking and choosing the doctrine based on what they agree with. Freewill.....it is a bitch!

I don't know why this is so difficult for people.  By doctrine and catechism, when you break the rules and DO NOT accept your sin, ask forgiveness, and promise NOT TO SIN AGAIN, then you remove yourself spiritually from the Church. You cease to be a Catholic in the eyes of God.

This isn't my "judgment" -- is CANONICAL.

If you don't agree with what the Church says, fine -- leave the Church: You already have anyway.  If you believe that abortion is OK, then you are NOT a Catholic.  Whether you go to Mass, perform the Sacraments, and go through the motions, that just means you are a poseur. God kicks you out, since He sees all.

There is a name for a cafeteria Catholic: a Protestant.

At least be honest with yourself and God.

That s why I left the Church -- I found too many illogicalities, even though I believe in God and His Son, Christ.  I could have stayed, but to what end?

Just because The Church in the US has become corrupt and survival-oriented doesn't change Doctrine.

You are absolutely right

[formerlurker]

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

VM While I agree with your opinion on both of those families. If the Catholic church were to just start excommunicating people for being "cafeteria catholics" there wouldn't be much of a church left here in the US. The majority of catholics in this country do not follow the churches doctrine to the letter.

Exactly.   However it is not just this country.   

[Bri77]