COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!

[Lacarnut]

Again, people asked how can we help? They cooperated.

God help whatever ****ed up town you live in if this happens there. Lord what a bunch of jackass videos there will be to cringe at.

Sorry to inform you that scene would not happen in the town I live in. You see, we are not anti-gun and in most cases would eliminate an intruder or terrorists. The meat wagon would be called instead of the FBI or police. However, it is the mindset in liberal communities like Boston that the citizens want the government/police to protect them. I just do not have that mindset and am not a fearful person. Shame that so many people place their trust in governmental authorities. 

[txradioguy]

So when, exactly, did the founding principles of our country stop applying?

Funny.  I don't remember saying the ever did.

What needs to stop is you misapplying them to a situation in order to fulfill your hysterical black helicopter mindset. 

[txradioguy]

TRG, the hostility and badmouthing to Big Dog is really uncalled for. Now, Big Dog's a Big Dog and he can take care of himself just fine, but your personal attacks are beneath you. I don't know of anybody who's hysterically ranting about any of this but you. Well, okay, maybe Reb. 

Sorry I don't have time for stupid.  Not gonna make apologies for calling a spade a spade.

They're wrong in their mis interpretation of the 4th Amendment in this situation and that's all there is to it.

If he doesn't like the fact I tell him he's stupid and fear mongering...tough.  He can jsut continue to call me a traitor to the Constitution and intone that I'm for giving up my liberties like he's been doing...which...I guess...doesn't count as a personal attack like you're tsk tsk'ing me for.

LEOs might be closer to the law than any of us are, but the fact is, they are not in a position to interpret the law. That's a job for the courts. The LEO, as you know, merely enforces that law.

And they enforced it as they understood they were allowed to do.  But some how saying that or defending that has made me a traitor to the Constitution to Reb and Big Dog.

From my POV, I am NOT willing to give law enforcement a free pass.

Never said I was willing to either.

Somebody at the highest levels in Boston -- and I'm wagering that it's either Deval Patrick or the mayor -- gave the cops the green light to roust out the areas that were rousted. And yes, before you ask, I read the thread last Friday. And I've followed up to the extent that I my schedule allows.

The announcements I heard on the scanner were coming from the State Police...so that would...one could assume mean they were coming from the Governor.

So for one, I'm content to let the ambulance chasers -- if they're hungry enough -- have at it. Let's see where, when and how the lawyers start lining up to talk with those people who were rousted then, when all that's done, let's see how the courts handle this -- or don't.

I doubt we'll see many lawsuits...but who knows.

We're not going to change each other's minds, and that's fine. Spirited discussion is also fine, but I'd hope we can step away from the ad hominem attacks. They really do detract from the debate.

You're right...saying I've betrayed my oath and betraying the Constitution really is kinda dumb things to say.


 

[txradioguy]

Sheep may bleat when they are being shorn, but they quiet down when the sheepherder releases their legs.

Baa.

Who's the bigger sheep...the people in Boston or the ones who blindly follow blatant mis-readings of an amendment in a misguided interpretation of "Constitutional Liberty"?

Baaa is right.

[txradioguy]

Looks to me like you are willing to sacrifice principles for safety, txradioguy. May your chains rest lightly upon you.

*yawn*

GFYS.  And I mean that sincerely.

What will you do, Sergeant?

Nothing Alex...errr...Big Dog because 1) The Posse Comitatus Act would prevent that.  2) I would refuse an unlawful order and 3) If someone was still insisting I obey an unlawful order in violation of UCMJ and US Code I'd tell them to either arrest me or watch me as I walked away.

What?...I'm sorry...did that ruin your little "gotcha" moment...where you would beat your chest and show everyone how my response PROVES that you and Reb are the REAL conservatives?

Oh and it's Sgt. 1st Class.  Get that shit straight before you EVER try to use my rank against me got that asswipe?

Now go play your retarded Black Helicopter Alex Jones Info Wars bullshit with the other conspiracy freaks...I'm done with your stupidity.

[txradioguy]

I was going to suggest moving it to the fight forum.

Works for me.  Mind Numbing Stupidity is the best place for it...but we can go to FC with it as well.

[txradioguy]

Again, people asked how can we help? They cooperated.

God help whatever ****ed up town you live in if this happens there. Lord what a bunch of jackass videos there will be to cringe at.

I guess some here would add redwhit to the list of "sheeple" as well since he's just one of those faux Conservatives like you and me and actually complied with what the cops were telling him to do.

[Lacarnut]

I guess some here would add redwhit to the list of "sheeple" as well since he's just one of those faux Conservatives like you and me and actually complied with what the cops were telling him to do.

My home is my castle and if the police forced their way into my house without permission or a warrant,  I would be some pissed. Watching that video where guns were pointed at the people in there does not LOOK constitutional to me. There could be a lawsuit and I do not know whether their rights were violated or not. Plus, it would not be the first time the government acted in an unlawful manner.

[txradioguy]

My home is my castle and if the police forced their way into my house without permission or a warrant,

They didn't force themselves anywhere...as was doccumented by people that were having it happen to them...they were asked by the cops if they could come in and search or if they had any place that needed to be searched.

They weren't kicking doors in and dragging people out and zip cuffing them.   

I would be some pissed. Watching that video where guns were pointed at the people in there does not LOOK constitutional to me.

You know I heard this meme floated all day yesterday and I still haven't see one image of a cop city state or federal with their weapon leveled at someone with their finger on the trigger like Reb and Big Dog have led people to believe.

There could be a lawsuit and I do not know whether their rights were violated or not. Plus, it would not be the first time the government acted in an unlawful manner.

As was covered yesterday they were within the law under the clause for exigent circumstances.


People really need to stop and take a DEEP breath on this and look at it not through the emotional prisim that seems to be guiding their hysteria but from a logical common sense angle.

I'm seeing people that are normally levell headed logical thinkers go batshit crazy for something that within the law and backed by numerous court ruling...was perfectly wihtin the scop of the law enforcement people on the scene to do.

I mean JHC how many places and how many cases do I need to link to that shows that the hysterical screaming of FOURTH AMENDMENT VIOLATION!!!!!11111  is just silly?

People that would be mocking the same behavior out of DU and talking about how cool the cops gear is in the 2nd Amendment thread are sunndeuly donning tinfoil and looking for black helicopters.

And when challenged and shown the facts start telling people they're traitors to their oath they swore as a soldier...and disloyal to the Constitution.  That's DU level bush league crap.

I mean really...

[JohnnyReb]

Unlike DU......no one is banned yet.....good

[Conservative Libertarian]

And in the end, it wasn't even necessary.  Dude goes out for a smoke, and notices his boat cover's ****ed up.  Calls the right people. 
Do you think anything will come of this?

The guy who reported it was in violation of the lock down and he did so to smoke EVIL tobacco on his own property. Therefore, he must be punished.[/sarcasm]

[Big Dog]

Sorry I don't have time for stupid.

Too bad you didn't have time to get educated.

You misused the phrase "black letter law". Go check the definition.

You cited cases which didn't apply. Circuit cases from the 4th, 9th, and 10th Circuits are not binding in Massachusetts, which is in the 1st Circuit. None of your citations involved a blanket suspension of the 4th Amendment over an area including  more than one person's home or property, where the state asserted a right to search all premises (which is the point you are attempting to make for exigent circumstances). Since your citations were from a different circuit, and were not identical or substantially similar in application of facts and law, they are not directly precedental.

If you come back with a US Supreme Court or 1st Circuit case in which the facts and law apply, your point will stand. If not, your motion for dismissal based on exigent circumstances is denied.

They're wrong in their mis interpretation of the 4th Amendment in this situation and that's all there is to it.

Given your misuse of the term "black letter law", and your basic ignorance of case law and legal precedent, you are not credible as an authority on interpretation of the 4th Amendment.

If a guy doesn't know the difference between a stick shift and an automatic transmission, and can't change his own oil, I am not going to listen to his advice on rebuilding a carburetor.

[Big Dog]

*yawn*

GFYS.  And I mean that sincerely.



Nothing Alex...errr...Big Dog because 1) The Posse Comitatus Act would prevent that.  2) I would refuse an unlawful order and 3) If someone was still insisting I obey an unlawful order in violation of UCMJ and US Code I'd tell them to either arrest me or watch me as I walked away.

What?...I'm sorry...did that ruin your little "gotcha" moment...where you would beat your chest and show everyone how my response PROVES that you and Reb are the REAL conservatives?

Oh and it's Sgt. 1st Class.  Get that shit straight before you EVER try to use my rank against me got that asswipe?

Now go play your retarded Black Helicopter Alex Jones Info Wars bullshit with the other conspiracy freaks...I'm done with your stupidity.

I know your rank. I also know it is abbreviated SFC, not "Sgt. 1st Class", and that colloquial address for all NCOs with rank E-5 and above, and below 1SG, is "Sergeant".

Have a good day, Sergeant. And I mean that sincerely.

[Lacarnut]

You know I heard this meme floated all day yesterday and I still haven't see one image of a cop city state or federal with their weapon leveled at someone with their finger on the trigger like Reb and Big Dog have led people to believe.

You have not looked at that video closely then. The cop on the right hand of the sidewalk has his rifle pointed at everyone that walks out the front door and as they pass him he lowers it. The swat team on the roof had their rifles pointed at them also. No, they did not have a weapon two inches from their face like the Gonzales kid but having a cop pointing their weapon at you from 30' would not please me anymore than having it stuck in my face. You need to look at the video again.

[txradioguy]

You have not looked at that video closely then. The cop on the right hand of the sidewalk has his rifle pointed at everyone that walks out the front door and as they pass him he lowers it. The swat team on the roof had their rifles pointed at them also. No, they did not have a weapon two inches from their face like the Gonzales kid but having a cop pointing their weapon at you from 30' would not please me anymore than having it stuck in my face. You need to look at the video again.

Looked at the video several times.  8shrugs* maybe it's because I'm in the military and that's how we do things too...didn't see anything that in any way involved the people with the weapons using them in a threatening or menacing manner against any fo the civilians. 

If they were really trying to be the jack booted thugs some people here claim they are...they woudlnt' have lowered the weapons as the people passed or they would have kept them up and ready to fire.

[Rebel]

*yawn*

GFYS.  And I mean that sincerely.



Nothing Alex...errr...Big Dog because 1) The Posse Comitatus Act would prevent that.  2) I would refuse an unlawful order and 3) If someone was still insisting I obey an unlawful order in violation of UCMJ and US Code I'd tell them to either arrest me or watch me as I walked away.

What?...I'm sorry...did that ruin your little "gotcha" moment...where you would beat your chest and show everyone how my response PROVES that you and Reb are the REAL conservatives?

Oh and it's Sgt. 1st Class.  Get that shit straight before you EVER try to use my rank against me got that asswipe?

Now go play your retarded Black Helicopter Alex Jones Info Wars bullshit with the other conspiracy freaks...I'm done with your stupidity.

You got sand in your vagina or something? I think it was a pretty good analogy. The analogy is one where you've essentially already given the guys on the ground the precedent to do exactly what Bigdog laid out.

Nice try pulling rank, TRG. Funny, I don't remember walking around calling all Sergeants First Class "Sergeant First Class So and So". He wasn't disparaging your rank; you just wanted a chance to throw that out there in an attempt to shut down the debate. 

[txradioguy]

I think it was a pretty good analogy.

Of course you do.   

The analogy is one where you've essentially already given the guys on the ground the precedent to do exactly what Bigdog laid out.[

Umm no...to quote Big Dog from yesterday "apples and oranges".

Nice try pulling rank,

Didn't do that.  I leave stunts like that for people that run around claiming I'm disobeying my oath of enlistment.

Funny, I don't remember walking around calling all Sergeants First Class "Sergeant First Class So and So".

No you were probably too busy running them down behind their back because you thought youwere smarter than them and they didn't know what the hell they were doing.

He wasn't disparaging your rank;

According to you.  But then we know how much your opinion matters to anyone outside of yourself right now.


[quote[you just wanted a chance to throw that out there in an attempt to shut down the debate. 
[/quote]

Nope.  He was saying it in a disrespectful way...channeling Dennis Hopper from "Speed".  Otherwise there wouldn't have been the bolded lettering.

[Big Dog]

Looked at the video several times.  8shrugs* maybe it's because I'm in the military and that's how we do things too...didn't see anything that in any way involved the people with the weapons using them in a threatening or menacing manner against any fo the civilians. 

When you retire from the Army, don't choose a career in law enforcement- unless you move to Massachusetts (baa).

If you point your weapon at someone who is not a deadly threat, you may find yourself without a home, car, or bank account.

Lawsuit alleges NJ State Trooper pointed Weapon at Retired Colonel, Daughter

[Big Dog]

Umm no...to quote Big Dog from yesterday "apples and oranges".
 
He was saying it in a disrespectful way...channeling Dennis Hopper from "Speed".  Otherwise there wouldn't have been the bolded lettering.

I didn't say "apples and oranges", so you're not quoting me; and I never saw Speed, so I don't know what Dennis Hopper said or did.

Now you're just chasing your own tail.

[formerlurker]

 

This is all batshit crazy now.

[Eupher]

I didn't say "apples and oranges", so you're not quoting me; and I never saw Speed, so I don't know what Dennis Hopper said or did.

Now you're just chasing your own tail.

I was the one who said "apples and oranges", but I ain't gonna go back and quote myself. 

I also didn't see the trooper pointing his rifle at anybody, Lacarnut. I'll take another look if I get a chance.

[formerlurker]

Rose told the Wire, the ACLU is working to “get facts on the ground of what really happened.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/23/ready-how-watertown-door-to-door-search-for-bombing-suspects-did-not-violate-the-fourth-amendment/#

Speaking of batshit crazy ... it's rather pathetic when members here rush to total know-it-all judgment with little to no facts, when the ACLU won't even go there. 

Yeah, we would like to hear from those whose houses were actually searched, cause the only complaints we are getting are from those whose houses weren't search.   Priceless.

[Eupher]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/23/ready-how-watertown-door-to-door-search-for-bombing-suspects-did-not-violate-the-fourth-amendment/#

Speaking of batshit crazy ... it's rather pathetic when members here rush to total know-it-all judgment with little to no facts, when the ACLU won't even go there. 

Yeah, we would like to hear from those whose houses were actually searched, cause the only complaints we are getting are from those whose houses weren't search.   Priceless.

 

I love it when you get pissed. Your sarcasm is truly original.

The lawyers, like the good, observant buzzards they are, are still circling, looking for easy pickings. 

[Big Dog]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/23/ready-how-watertown-door-to-door-search-for-bombing-suspects-did-not-violate-the-fourth-amendment/#

Speaking of batshit crazy ... it's rather pathetic when members here rush to total know-it-all judgment with little to no facts, when the ACLU won't even go there. 

Yeah, we would like to hear from those whose houses were actually searched, cause the only complaints we are getting are from those whose houses weren't search.   Priceless.

Baa.

[formerlurker]

“The lockdown is really voluntary, to be honest with you,” says Scott Silliman, emeritus director of the Center on Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke Law School. “The governor said he wants to use sheltering in place. Sheltering in place is a practice normally used if you’re dealing with a pandemic, where you’re telling people, ‘You may have been exposed and we want you to stay exactly where you are so we can isolate everything and we’ll come to you.’”

The “shelter in place” request is legally different from a state of emergency, which Patrick declared earlier this year as winter storm Nemo descended on the Bay State. Patrick imposed a travel ban, threatening a penalty of up to a year in prison and a large fine if people were found on the roads. Massachusetts suffered very few fatalities during the storm.

When it came to keeping the public off the streets on Friday, an order, it seems, wasn’t needed. “When the governor suggested in light of last night’s events that we have an armed subject on the loose who is very dangerous, who has committed murder, I believe the citizens of the commonwealth, in the hopes of helping law enforcement, voluntarily stayed off the streets,” Massachusetts State Trooper Todd Nolan told TIME. “This is a request that the public stay inside and they are adhering to it. There has been no law mentioned or any idea that if you went outside you’d be arrested.”

Legal experts agree that the request has been effective. “If there’s a person running around with explosives in a major population center, it wouldn’t be that surprising that the response of authorities would be to ask people to not be outside,” says David Barron, a professor of public law at Harvard Law School. The heightened risk to the public, given the violence that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is already alleged to have inflicted, made officials feel the shelter in place request was necessary, but such measures might not be the standard response to every future terrorism manhunt. “If the idea is somehow that the model for how to respond–when there’s any kind of suspect on the loose related to terrorism, they’ll be telling a place to be completely shut down–that seems not at all likely,” Barron says.

Even if Patrick had felt an order was necessary, or if the situation continues, the Massachusetts state constitution empowers Patrick to take steps to ensure the public’s safety. “A state’s chief executive has ample inherent power to prevent carnage,” Harvard Law School professor and constitutional expert Laurence Tribe told TIME in an email. All steps that Patrick has taken so far, Tribe explained, appear to fully comply with the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments.

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2013/04/19/was-boston-actually-on-lockdown/#ixzz2RUKd2YaA