COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!

[txradioguy]

The tipoff is the color purple.

Who buys a purple couch?

Dopesmokers, that's who! (Terrorist Kitty keeps mistaking the weed for catnip, though, which is a huge problem.)

I'm assuming the owner of the ponytail is female...my guess is she made him buy it under duress.

[txradioguy]

The two critters built a grand total of five bombs, two of which were exploded at the marathon, one of the street during the firefight in which the elder brother was gunned down, and two others.

Low grade explosives.

Wow.

Let's roust the neighborhood. Even the screaming children.

They exploded in two in controlled blasts...and disabled one more while they were looking for the kid.  IIRC they found seven more pipe bombs as well.

[txradioguy]

You keep bringing that up as justification to shut down the entire city.

So yo'd rather people fill those high traffic areas?  Talk about a target rich environment for terrorists.

How many of those IEDs were recovered on the road in East Boston, South Boston, Chelsea, Revere, or Quincy? All of those neighborhoods were locked down "voluntarily" sheltered in place, and public transportation in those unaffected areas was shut down too.

They found three more already planted.  Go back and look at the thread from last friday...I was posting updates like crazy.  Two were detonated in controlled blasts and one was dismantled. 

How about the small businessmen who counted on public transit for his employees to come to work in an unaffected part of the metropolitan area? Their closing was hardly "voluntary".

No one said the shut down of the MBTA was voluntary.  That game from the State in the interest of the safety of the people.

Something you seem to care nothing about in some misguided defense of the 4th Amendment.


It's like you're saying...yeah people got blown up...couple kids died in the cross fire between the cops and the terrorist...but hey...at least I didn't see any violations of the 4th Amendment.

 

[txradioguy]

I'll be honest. I'm finding this debate fascinating.

Swear to God I'm not stirring shit with this next question:

How come the guy taking the video wasn't rousted from his house?

I can definitely see both sides of this argument. It has been going on since the Civil War.

There has to be more to it than what we see on that video.

It was not a search to implicate homeowners in any crime and none were.  It was a search for a dangerous fugitive and unrelated to unlawful search and seizure of homeowners property or persons.

[Big Dog]

So yo'd rather people fill those high traffic areas?  Talk about a target rich environment for terrorists.

As a wise man once said, "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

No one said the shut down of the MBTA was voluntary.

formerlurker said the lockdown "shelter in place" was voluntary. I pointed out that shutting down public transit all over the city created an involuntary shutdown for small business owners in areas far removed from the manhunt, because their employees could not get to work.

Something you seem to care nothing about in some misguided defense of the 4th Amendment.

I've never found defending the 4th Amendment, nor any other part of the Constitution, to be misguided. I'm hardheaded that way.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams

It's like you're saying...yeah people got blown up...couple kids died in the cross fire between the cops and the terrorist...but hey...at least I didn't see any violations of the 4th Amendment.

 

It's like I'm saying, "As soon as our government ignores the Constitution and curtails our liberty in response to a terrorist threat, the terrorists have won."

Or, it's like I am saying, "The bad guys won this round, and the next batch of bad guys now know how to bring a city to a standstill."

Or maybe, it's like I am saying, "Some of us refuse to live in fear of terrorists OR our 'benevolent' government."

Don't put words in my mouth, and I won't put words in yours. Since I know what I'm saying, and it is at least one of these, you can take your pick.

[txradioguy]

As a wise man once said, "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

Applying that quote to this situation...is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen posted here.

Hope you're proud.

formerlurker said the lockdown "shelter in place" was voluntary. I pointed out that shutting down public transit all over the city created an involuntary shutdown for small business owners in areas far removed from the manhunt, because their employees could not get to work.

I heard the broadcast on the scanner.  Did you?  This is one place where FL is mistaken.  They told people to stay home.  Mandatory shut down of the MBTA.  Stay indoors do not answer the door unless it was to respond to an identified law enforcement officer and do not go near the windows.  Go look in breaking news...I posted the damn announcement seconds after it came across the airwaves.  They had just given the all clear and that people could leave their homes about 5 minutes BEFORE terrorist #2 was captured.

I've never found defending the 4th Amendment, nor any other part of the Constitution, to be misguided.

Except you're NOT defending it.  You're standing on a misinterpretation of the 4th Amendment despite all the evidence that points to the fact you're tragically wrong.

I'm hardheaded that way.

No...just not too bright when it comes to the law.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams

Cite all the flowery poetry from one of the FF's you like.  How is that going to be any comfort if you're dead because YOU think that YOU know the 4th Amendment better than law enforcement officer?  I'm sure your family and friends will be comforted by the words of Sam Adams. 

It's like I'm saying, "As soon as our government ignores the Constitution and curtails our liberty in response to a terrorist threat, the terrorists have won."

Or, it's like I am saying, "The bad guys won this round, and the next batch of bad guys now know how to bring a city to a standstill."

Or maybe, it's like I am saying, "Some of us refuse to live in fear of terrorists OR our 'benevolent' government."

Don't put words in my mouth, and I won't put words in yours. Since I know what I'm saying, and it is at least one of these, you can take your pick.

I'm not putting words in your mouth.  

As I said earlier...It was not a search to implicate homeowners in any crime and none were.  It was a search for a dangerous fugitive and unrelated to unlawful search and seizure of homeowners property or persons.

I've cited and backed it up with legal cases where exigent circumstances apply in the hunt for a dangerous terrorist.

You've countered with Samuel Adams?

 

Neither you or Rebel have anything other than your own paranoid Alex Jones type rantings to back up any of the histrionics you've posted here today.

You've both engaged in the same type of fear mongering fact LESS babble that you'd be laughing about and mocking if it came from the website called DU.

[txradioguy]

formerlurker said the lockdown "shelter in place" was voluntary. I pointed out that shutting down public transit all over the city created an involuntary shutdown for small business owners in areas far removed from the manhunt, because their employees could not get to work.

If you won't take my word for it...perhaps you can take it up with someone who was in the middle of the search area.  One of our own members redwhit:

   
Re: BREAKING: MIT under siege, officer shot, police turn off cellphones ...
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2013, 10:04:32 »
Quote
Reverse 911 emergency calls have gone out to people in surrounding towns (Cambridge, Watertown, others I would imagine) and we have been told to stay home.  No public transport. I could walk to work but that's closed too.  Hopefully no one else will get hurt.

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,86226.0/msg,1070445.html


The communities were getting reverse 911 calls with instructions on what to do.  Guess that's another hole in your eeeevil gubmint theory huh?

[txradioguy]

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,86226.0.html

There's the entire thread from last friday.  Some people here need to go read and educate themselves on what was going on before they continue their hysterical rants.

[Big Dog]

If you won't take my word for it...perhaps you can take it up with someone who was in the middle of the search area.  One of our own members redwhit:

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,86226.0/msg,1070445.html


The communities were getting reverse 911 calls with instructions on what to do.  Guess that's another hole in your eeeevil gubmint theory huh?

Actually, you just made my point for me.

"We have been told to stay home" is not the same as "voluntary shelter in place".

Oops.

[Big Dog]

Looks to me like you are willing to sacrifice principles for safety, txradioguy. May your chains rest lightly upon you.

And now a scenario for you. I promise it won't require anyone to be able to see into the future.

At 0200 tomorrow, you receive a call from your First Sergeant. He directs you to activate your platoon alert roster, and orders your Soldiers to report for formation at 0800 in full field gear. Be prepared for one week of field duty. He orders you to report to the the S4 NCOIC at 0600, to prepare to draw personal weapons, NVG, and commo. The 1SG does not tell you where you are going or what you are doing when you get there. You call your squad leaders and set the wheels in motion.

0800: Formation. The S2 gives your platoon leader a copy of your roster, with the names of two Soldiers checked off. The LT tells you to have the two Soldiers fall out and report back to the company area. You recognize the two Soldiers as Kansas natives, whom you call "the Plowboys".

1000: Warning Order: Your company is deploying CONUS for counter-terror operations. Departure time 2000 from the airfield. Your company is in lockdown in the company area until that time. Nothing further.

2000: Loaded onto an ANG C-5, your company departs. the 1SG advises that you will receive a briefing upon arrival CONUS.

DAY 2:

1200: You arrive at Marshall Field, Ft Riley KS. Soldiers are issued personal weapons, NVG, radios, and MREs for 3 days. You draw vehicles and crew-served weapons at Camp Funston.

2000: Mission briefing by your company commander-

Situation: In BigDog County, KS, the county sheriff publicly refused a recent Presidential executive order for any local law enforcement agency which receives Federal grant money to register "assault-style" rifles and large capacity magazines within the county. The sheriff was declared an "insurrectionist" and "domestic terrorist" by the US Dept of Justice. The "terrorist" may be somewhere in the county, but his actual location is unknown. Local law enforcement and citizens may be sympathetic to the sheriff, and are not to be trusted.

FBI estimates 50 percent of the houses in the county have at least one firearm; a local Farmer's Co-op has 8,000 pounds of nitrate fertilizer kept in a storage shed. FBI estimates 200 pressure cookers in private homes and stores within the county.

Your unit was tasked because of concerns that local (Ft Riley) Soldiers would be sympathetic to the local citizens, and no Soldiers with Kansas HORs are participating in the operation.

Mission: Locate the "terrorist", capture him, and confiscate any "assault-type" weapons or magazines with capacity greater than 10 rounds, pursuant to the original executive order.

Execution: Your platoon is given an area containing a town of 1,000 people. You are ordered to search all houses and buildings within that area.

Command and signal: You will report to and receive orders only through your regular chain of command. Rules of engagement: standard counterinsurgency ROE.

Coordinating instructions: The BN SJA says that posse comatatus does not apply. She also says "exigent circumstances" permit you to search all homes within the county. Ammunition will be issued at the rally point.

You are released from the briefing, and ordered to move out in 10 minutes.

What will you do, Sergeant?

[Big Dog]

Applying that quote to this situation...is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen posted here.


Cite all the flowery poetry from one of the FF's you like.  How is that going to be any comfort if you're dead because YOU think that YOU know the 4th Amendment better than law enforcement officer?  I'm sure your family and friends will be comforted by the words of Sam Adams.

So when, exactly, did the founding principles of our country stop applying?

[Eupher]

TRG, the hostility and badmouthing to Big Dog is really uncalled for. Now, Big Dog's a Big Dog and he can take care of himself just fine, but your personal attacks are beneath you. I don't know of anybody who's hysterically ranting about any of this but you. Well, okay, maybe Reb. 

That said, we've all been speculating. We all are tossing out our own interpretations of court cases, the 4th Amendment, and we're drawing our own conclusions about lots of things. With the exception of DAT, I don't know of any lawyers on this board, so all of these interpretations really should be taken with a grain of salt.

LEOs might be closer to the law than any of us are, but the fact is, they are not in a position to interpret the law. That's a job for the courts. The LEO, as you know, merely enforces that law.

From my POV, I am NOT willing to give law enforcement a free pass. Somebody at the highest levels in Boston -- and I'm wagering that it's either Deval Patrick or the mayor -- gave the cops the green light to roust out the areas that were rousted. And yes, before you ask, I read the thread last Friday. And I've followed up to the extent that I my schedule allows.

So for one, I'm content to let the ambulance chasers -- if they're hungry enough -- have at it. Let's see where, when and how the lawyers start lining up to talk with those people who were rousted then, when all that's done, let's see how the courts handle this -- or don't.

We're not going to change each other's minds, and that's fine. Spirited discussion is also fine, but I'd hope we can step away from the ad hominem attacks. They really do detract from the debate.

[CG6468]

I was going to suggest moving it to the fight forum.

TRG, the hostility and badmouthing to Big Dog is really uncalled for. Now, Big Dog's a Big Dog and he can take care of himself just fine, but your personal attacks are beneath you. I don't know of anybody who's hysterically ranting about any of this but you. Well, okay, maybe Reb. 

That said, we've all been speculating. We all are tossing out our own interpretations of court cases, the 4th Amendment, and we're drawing our own conclusions about lots of things. With the exception of DAT, I don't know of any lawyers on this board, so all of these interpretations really should be taken with a grain of salt.

LEOs might be closer to the law than any of us are, but the fact is, they are not in a position to interpret the law. That's a job for the courts. The LEO, as you know, merely enforces that law.

From my POV, I am NOT willing to give law enforcement a free pass. Somebody at the highest levels in Boston -- and I'm wagering that it's either Deval Patrick or the mayor -- gave the cops the green light to roust out the areas that were rousted. And yes, before you ask, I read the thread last Friday. And I've followed up to the extent that I my schedule allows.

So for one, I'm content to let the ambulance chasers -- if they're hungry enough -- have at it. Let's see where, when and how the lawyers start lining up to talk with those people who were rousted then, when all that's done, let's see how the courts handle this -- or don't.

We're not going to change each other's minds, and that's fine. Spirited discussion is also fine, but I'd hope we can step away from the ad hominem attacks. They really do detract from the debate.

[formerlurker]

And smelling pot is analogous to a fleeing critter exactly how?

That they upheld it for something this minor...

[formerlurker]

You keep bringing that up as justification to shut down the entire city.

How many of those IEDs were recovered on the road in East Boston, South Boston, Chelsea, Revere, or Quincy? All of those neighborhoods were locked down "voluntarily" sheltered in place, and public transportation in those unaffected areas was shut down too.

How about the small businessmen who counted on public transit for his employees to come to work in an unaffected part of the metropolitan area? Their closing was hardly "voluntary".

Bombs on the road is a justification to put a shelter in place.   

When you encounter this situation locally, you can comment on your comfort level of your kids going to school in that environment.

[formerlurker]

Actually, you just made my point for me.

"We have been told to stay home" is not the same as "voluntary shelter in place".

Oops.

I watched the Governor - too many times for my liking, at every news conference asking people in the affected areas to stay home as there is a shelter in place.   Oops, I live here.

The MBTA is state controlled, it's not a right of citizens.   Cabs were working, and you know - you could drive.   People actually own cars here.   

[formerlurker]

Aside from the hysterical rantings of Alex Jones, I am missing the outcry from the people who live in the perimeter affected.   

Perhaps I missed it.  Anyone have a link?

[catsmtrods]

I see going this way at my house.

Knock, knock Mr Cats we want to search you house.

There aint no ****in terrorist in this house, if there was he would be in a bloody heap and I would call you. Now go away and leave me alone I don't need your protection.

And this is when they go ape shit on me and pull me out at gun point and trash my house.

[formerlurker]

I see going this way at my house.

Knock, knock Mr Cats we want to search you house.

There aint no ****in terrorist in this house, if there was he would be in a bloody heap and I would call you. Now go away and leave me alone I don't need your protection.

And this is when they go ape shit on me and pull me out at gun point and trash my house.

I don't think so - or at least, I don't see anyone saying that happened.  I am going to go look at the local media articles, although I think some would have already come out by now.

[Eupher]

Aside from the hysterical rantings of Alex Jones, I am missing the outcry from the people who live in the perimeter affected.   

Perhaps I missed it.  Anyone have a link?

Sheeple are everywhere, especially in the People's Republik of Massholistan.   

[Firekrakka]

Sheeple are everywhere, especially in the People's Republik of Massholistan.   

Ewe are funny!

[Big Dog]

Aside from the hysterical rantings of Alex Jones, I am missing the outcry from the people who live in the perimeter affected.   

Perhaps I missed it.  Anyone have a link?

Sheep may bleat when they are being shorn, but they quiet down when the sheepherder releases their legs.

Baa.

[Firekrakka]

Cabs were working, and you know - you could drive.   People actually own cars here.   

Yeah with Coexist stickers. 

Where were the cabs then?

[formerlurker]

Airport bringing folks to where they need to be.

[formerlurker]

Again, people asked how can we help? They cooperated.

God help whatever ****ed up town you live in if this happens there. Lord what a bunch of jackass videos there will be to cringe at.