Author Topic: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!  (Read 15690 times)

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Offline Rebel

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COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« on: April 23, 2013, 02:40:08 PM »
[youtube=425,350]2LrbsUVSVl8[/youtube]


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313249/Boston-bomber-search-Moment-SWAT-teams-ordered-innocent-neighbors-houses-GUNPOINT.html

This violates everything the 4th amendment stands for. They did this shit house to house. :censored:
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 02:55:23 PM »
formerlurker will be along directly to tell us how those involuntary, unconstitutional, warrantless searches were just fine, because they were part of the "Boston strong" response, like the "voluntary" lockdown of the greater Boston metropolitan area. 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. - Amendment IV, US Constitution
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 03:14:16 PM »
That is really unconstitutional.
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Offline Karin

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 03:17:22 PM »
And in the end, it wasn't even necessary.  Dude goes out for a smoke, and notices his boat cover's ****ed up.  Calls the right people. 
Do you think anything will come of this?

Offline Big Dog

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 03:26:21 PM »
And in the end, it wasn't even necessary.  Dude goes out for a smoke, and notices his boat cover's ****ed up.  Calls the right people. 
Do you think anything will come of this?

Probably not. It is the Commonwealth of Bluetopia in the United States of Obama, after all.

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Offline Eupher

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 03:41:26 PM »
Big Dog nailed it.   :cheersmate:

Lurker? Got something to add here?  :-)

Jeez. Just look at those law-abiding citizens, in their own homes minding their own business, being frog-marched down the street with their arms up in the air like they're common criminals.

Not quite frog-marched, but close. Definitely involuntary.

I gotta hand it to Lurker. She's opinionated, informed (usually), and generally correct.

Not in this case, however.

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Offline Wineslob

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2013, 04:17:47 PM »
I would so sue the piss out of the city.
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Offline catsmtrods

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2013, 05:17:21 PM »
Think maybe that family said no, get a warrant? I wonder?
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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2013, 05:43:21 PM »
Think maybe that family said no, get a warrant? I wonder?

I wouldn't bet on it. After 100+ years of being conditioned to have a boot at your neck, I bet those Bostonians didn't even notice the whole irony of being in "lockdown" (like any other prisoner) and having their rights trampled by government thugs without so much as a consolation ObamaPhone, all in the name of preserving western Liberties from the terrorist menace.
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Offline Firekrakka

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 06:04:22 PM »
Think maybe that family said no, get a warrant? I wonder?

Nah, not in the commie capital of the East.

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Offline Rebel

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 08:42:44 PM »
Think maybe that family said no, get a warrant? I wonder?

Did you watch the video? They weren't given a chance to say anything. My dogs bark and jump on anyone that comes in the door, because they're extremely friendly. They're Lhasas raised by me. If this shit would have happened here, my dogs would have been dead. ...and a few cops would have been dead as would I. I would see 5 shades of red if my boys were killed by a bunch of Damn Constitution-ignoring cops. I'd have retreated, armed, and went into an insane rage. That I can assure you. The reason I have a firearm everywhere within 10' of anywhere I am in my house is because if some criminals break in, the dogs are there faster than me. I see it as taking out a threat before they kill one of my boys.

I'm not some billy badass, I'm just saying how it'd turn out if this shit happened to me and they dispatched my dogs, the dogs "I" pulled out of their mother, Bella. I don't give a **** WHAT uniform you wear, sheriff, police, FBI, or ****ing 101st Airborne. You kill my dogs, in MY home, someone is dying with me.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2013, 08:48:01 PM »
Big Dog nailed it.   :cheersmate:

Lurker? Got something to add here?  :-)

Jeez. Just look at those law-abiding citizens, in their own homes minding their own business, being frog-marched down the street with their arms up in the air like they're common criminals.

Not quite frog-marched, but close. Definitely involuntary.

I gotta hand it to Lurker. She's opinionated, informed (usually), and generally correct.

Not in this case, however.



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Offline Firekrakka

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 09:02:57 PM »
Did you watch the video? They weren't given a chance to say anything. My dogs bark and jump on anyone that comes in the door, because they're extremely friendly. They're Lhasas raised by me. If this shit would have happened here, my dogs would have been dead. ...and a few cops would have been dead as would I. I would see 5 shades of red if my boys were killed by a bunch of Damn Constitution-ignoring cops. I'd have retreated, armed, and went into an insane rage. That I can assure you. The reason I have a firearm everywhere within 10' of anywhere I am in my house is because if some criminals break in, the dogs are there faster than me. I see it as taking out a threat before they kill one of my boys.

I'm not some billy badass, I'm just saying how it'd turn out if this shit happened to me and they dispatched my dogs, the dogs "I" pulled out of their mother, Bella. I don't give a **** WHAT uniform you wear, sheriff, police, FBI, or ****ing 101st Airborne. You kill my dogs, in MY home, someone is dying with me.

(Sorry to hijack but just had to say I love Lhasas. Have owned a few and if I get a pooch again, it's gonna be a Lhasa. )

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Offline CG6468

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 09:10:55 PM »
What about this poor guy's boat? It has to be trashed after all this crap.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2013, 09:23:48 PM »
(Sorry to hijack but just had to say I love Lhasas. Have owned a few and if I get a pooch again, it's gonna be a Lhasa. )

I could fill up this thread with pictures. Most of the older posters were here when I birthed the first 3. Then the second 6. ...out of a tiny little girl. We kept the last born and the biggest born. That's who I have now. Bentley is about 20 Lbs, Brutus is 40. Bella, the mom, and Bailey, the dad, are with my ex-wife. These guys are my heart.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Firekrakka

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2013, 09:37:02 PM »
What about this poor guy's boat? It has to be trashed after all this crap.

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I could fill up this thread with pictures. Most of the older posters were here when I birthed the first 3. Then the second 6. ...out of a tiny little girl. We kept the last born and the biggest born. That's who I have now. Bentley is about 20 Lbs, Brutus is 40. Bella, the mom, and Bailey, the dad, are with my ex-wife. These guys are my heart.

My first was all white and born on Halloween, so he was named Spooks. He was extremely playful and the best dog I've seen with children!! Spooks was actually a lifesaver because a man came to the door and we looked through the peephole. Spooks growled. When he growled, you knew shit just got real. We didn't open it. Later we found out that man had murdered 2 in the vicinity.

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Offline CG6468

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2013, 09:46:35 PM »
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Offline catsmtrods

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2013, 04:17:44 AM »
Did you watch the video? They weren't given a chance to say anything. My dogs bark and jump on anyone that comes in the door, because they're extremely friendly. They're Lhasas raised by me. If this shit would have happened here, my dogs would have been dead. ...and a few cops would have been dead as would I. I would see 5 shades of red if my boys were killed by a bunch of Damn Constitution-ignoring cops. I'd have retreated, armed, and went into an insane rage. That I can assure you. The reason I have a firearm everywhere within 10' of anywhere I am in my house is because if some criminals break in, the dogs are there faster than me. I see it as taking out a threat before they kill one of my boys.

I'm not some billy badass, I'm just saying how it'd turn out if this shit happened to me and they dispatched my dogs, the dogs "I" pulled out of their mother, Bella. I don't give a **** WHAT uniform you wear, sheriff, police, FBI, or ****ing 101st Airborne. You kill my dogs, in MY home, someone is dying with me.

Agreed. I have already committed to my family that if this happens to me I will die. I won't be alone!
"Liberalism is an essentially feminine, submissive world view. Perhaps a better adjective than feminine is infantile. It is the world view of men who do not have the moral toughness, the spiritual strength to stand up and do single combat with life, who cannot adjust to the reality that the world is not a huge, pink-and-blue, padded nursery in which the lions lie down with the lambs and everyone lives happily ever after."


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"How many more times are we going to cower under tables and chairs, whimpering like mindless dogs, thinking that someone else has the responsibility to save and protect us?"

Offline catsmtrods

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2013, 04:24:49 AM »
Not everyone who lives in the northeast are sheepole. It amazes me that they think that terrorist might be in someones house. Sure the **** wouldn't be in mine! 
"Liberalism is an essentially feminine, submissive world view. Perhaps a better adjective than feminine is infantile. It is the world view of men who do not have the moral toughness, the spiritual strength to stand up and do single combat with life, who cannot adjust to the reality that the world is not a huge, pink-and-blue, padded nursery in which the lions lie down with the lambs and everyone lives happily ever after."


~ Dr. William Pierce


 

"How many more times are we going to cower under tables and chairs, whimpering like mindless dogs, thinking that someone else has the responsibility to save and protect us?"

Offline txradioguy

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2013, 04:37:55 AM »
And the first house they didn't evac for safety reasons...had the bomber run in there and martyred himself and the occupants...the survivors or their relatives would have sued the shit out of every local state and federal authority involved for not protecting them.


I'm curious to see how some of you think this is actually a violation since there was a public safety concern going on.  None of these people were being arrested...they weren't being evicted nor were they suspected of anything.  Nothing was siezed from their homes and they were allowed to return.

What you're forgetting is something called "Exigent circumstance" and it applies in this instance.

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Exigent circumstances arise when the law enforcement officers have reasonable grounds to believe that there is an immediate need to protect their lives, the lives of others, their property, or that of others, the search is not motivated by an intent to arrest and seize evidence, and there is some reasonable basis, to associate an emergency with the area or place to be searched   U.S. v Smith 1986


Go ahead...someone do their best Alex Jones and tell me that a cop killing IED planing bomb thrower...armed...extremely dangerous and even willing to run over his own brother to avoid capture doesn't fall under the definition of "Exigent circumstances" when it comes to searching those people's houses and getting them out of their for their own safety.


If you're gonna cite the Constitution...makre sure you read ALL of the Amendment that you think is being violated and has your panties in a bunch before you go crying wolf.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 04:57:42 AM by txradioguy »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2013, 04:41:46 AM »
Ok lets play out this scenario.  

9/11.

Lets say we had advance warning of what planes were gonna hit DC NY and Pennsylvania but not the exact building or neighborhood.

Cops race into the neighborhoods or the office buildings in those areas were the planes are most likely to hit and start telling people to "get out".

Would you still be yelling this silly "4th Amendment violation" crap?

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Offline Rebel

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2013, 07:12:47 AM »

And the first house they didn't evac for safety reasons...had the bomber run in there and martyred himself and the occupants...the survivors or their relatives would have sued the shit out of every local state and federal authority involved for not protecting them.

And the case would have been thrown out as the Supreme Court has already ruled that police have no duty to protect.

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I'm curious to see how some of you think this is actually a violation since there was a public safety concern going on.  None of these people were being arrested...they weren't being evicted nor were they suspected of anything.  Nothing was siezed from their homes and they were allowed to return.

I don't "think" it's a violation; I KNOW it's a violation.

Quote
What you're forgetting is something called "Exigent circumstance" and it applies in this instance.

Problem with "exigent" is it is very subjective. Who gets to decide what is exigent and what constitutional rights can be trampled on? The cops? Without due process? And how is that not a violation of the 4th Amendment?

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Go ahead...someone do their best Alex Jones and tell me that a cop killing IED planing bomb thrower...armed...extremely dangerous and even willing to run over his own brother to avoid capture doesn't fall under the definition of "Exigent circumstances" when it comes to searching those people's houses and getting them out of their for their own safety.

Wow, call us Alex Jones. Next you'll be telling us we're against ALL forms of government because we want it limited. That's exactly what you're doing, going from one extreme to the other. If one damn moron can lock down a city, give permission to cops to drag people out of their homes without warning or warrants at gunpoint, the Damn terrorists have already won.

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If you're gonna cite the Constitution...makre sure you read ALL of the Amendment that you think is being violated and has your panties in a bunch before you go crying wolf.

Ok. Feel free to show me what I failed to read:

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Rebel

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2013, 07:14:48 AM »
I always hoped that if the president ever ordered our military to go door to door to confiscate everyone's arms because they're deemed a threat, our military will refuse the order. I pray that's still the case and that you're opinion is in the minority. Let it be known that these unconstitutional searches yielded NO terrorist. He was only found because a citizen informed the cops that there was someone in his boat. There is one body that has a small authority to interpret our Constitution thanks to Marbury v Madison. It's not the WPD, or the BPD, or the MAARNG.

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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Rebel

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2013, 07:18:23 AM »
Ok lets play out this scenario.  

9/11.

Lets say we had advance warning of what planes were gonna hit DC NY and Pennsylvania but not the exact building or neighborhood.

Cops race into the neighborhoods or the office buildings in those areas were the planes are most likely to hit and start telling people to "get out".

Would you still be yelling this silly "4th Amendment violation" crap?



Worst analogy ever.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Big Dog

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Re: COMPLETELY UNCONSTITITIONAL!
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2013, 07:21:31 AM »
And the first house they didn't evac for safety reasons...had the bomber run in there and martyred himself and the occupants...the survivors or their relatives would have sued the shit out of every local state and federal authority involved for not protecting them.


I'm curious to see how some of you think this is actually a violation since there was a public safety concern going on.  None of these people were being arrested...they weren't being evicted nor were they suspected of anything.  Nothing was siezed from their homes and they were allowed to return.

What you're forgetting is something called "Exigent circumstance" and it applies in this instance.


Go ahead...someone do their best Alex Jones and tell me that a cop killing IED planing bomb thrower...armed...extremely dangerous and even willing to run over his own brother to avoid capture doesn't fall under the definition of "Exigent circumstances" when it comes to searching those people's houses and getting them out of their for their own safety.


If you're gonna cite the Constitution...makre sure you read ALL of the Amendment that you think is being violated and has your panties in a bunch before you go crying wolf.

I'll put my understanding of the 4th Amendment up against yours any day of the week, my friend. And if you're going to claim "exigent circumstances", make sure you know what it really means before you use it to excuse improper police actions. A general "public safety concern" (to use your words), alone, does not constitute exigent circumstances- that would be a police state.

Hot pursuit and plain view are the most common exigent circumstances. "Hot pursuit" means actually following a suspect onto private property, not arbitrarily setting a perimeter and searching everything within that perimeter. "Plain view" means observing through reasonable means, a violation of law, an immediate and unavoidable threat to public safety, or the presence of an identified suspect, from a place where the observing officer is lawfully engaged.

Exigent circumstances must create the most limited infringement of a citizen's constitutional or civil rights. Absent exigent circumstances, law enforcement must ask permission to enter a residence, or get a warrant.

Pointing a weapon at a person legitimately places him in fear of losing his life, and is a felony if done by a private person (absent an immediate threat). Law enforcement pointing weapons at a person who is not suspected of violating the law, or who does not present an articulable threat to an officer or civilian, is a violation of that person's 4th Amendment right. "Officer safety" alone does not constitute an exception to the 4th Amendment, otherwise police could point their weapons at citizens "for the officer's safety" at all times, with impunity.

Ordering a person (who is not a suspect) from his own home at gunpoint, and walking that person out of his own home at gunpoint with his hands on his head (as shown in a photo on this thread), are violations of the 4th Amendment. 

The citizen's remedy for these violations are criminal or civil action under 18 USC 242, Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law. FBI.gov explanation of the statute.
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