Why vote GOP back in?

[Carl]

What btw do you want me to tell you about your concerns?

Are all Republicans conservatively pure in ideology?...No.

Is the general system we have for representative government perfect?...No.

Would I prefer in light of that to have folks that agree with me 50% of the time over those that disagree with me 100% of the time...Yes.

Do I wish for different or better?...Yes.

Is it realistic to think that what I want will ever be completely endorsed by the voting public?...No

Beyond that I don`t know what you are wanting or asking.

[formerlurker]

What btw do you want me to tell you about your concerns?

Are all Republicans conservatively pure in ideology?...No.

Is the general system we have for representative government perfect?...No.

Would I prefer in light of that to have folks that agree with me 50% of the time over those that disagree with me 100% of the time...Yes.

Do I wish for different or better?...Yes.

Is it realistic to think that what I want will ever be completely endorsed by the voting public?...No

Beyond that I don`t know what you are wanting or asking.

Pure conservative utopia..... which has occurred when exactly in our Nation's history?

[Carl]

Pure conservative utopia..... which has occurred when exactly in our Nation's history?

Never,and one of those things one learns as they grow older. {sigh}

[rich_t]

bkg,

I agree with everything you've said on this thread concerning the current GOP.  They are just as bad as the Dems; they are merely driving the country to ruin at a slower pace.

I have no faith in either party at this point.  With any luck the GOP party might be dragged kicking and screaming back toward the right, but without a major house cleaning in DC and the party leadership in general, I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Simply put, the current crop seems entirely too interested in being lib-lite instead of conservatives.

I too am weary of voting the the lesser of two evils.  So if a true conservative independant runs, I will vote for them.  If that causes the Repubs to lose due to splitting the vote so be it.  If the GOP can't act like the conservatives that they claim to be then maybe they deserve to lose.

If they keep losing, then perhaps they will finally wake up and start paying attention the the conservative base in this country, or that tree of Liberty will get watered once enough people get fed up with the BS in DC.

Do I expect some sort of utopian conservative world?  Of course not.  I'd gladly settle for a party that claims to be conservative to merely act like it more often than not.  Something that the GOP leadership has been failing badly at for over 20 years now IMHO.
 
I will now sit back and wait to be told that I too live in some fantasy world.

[Carl]

bkg,

I agree with everything you've said on this thread concerning the current GOP.  They are just as bad as the Dems; they are merely driving the country to ruin at a slower pace.

I have no faith in either party at this point.  With any luck the GOP party might be dragged kicking and screaming back toward the right, but without a major house cleaning in DC and the party leadership in general, I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Simply put, the current crop seems entirely too interested in being lib-lite instead of conservatives.

I too am weary of voting the the lesser of two evils.  So if a true conservative independant runs, I will vote for them.  If that causes the Repubs to lose due to splitting the vote so be it.  If the GOP can't act like the conservatives that they claim to be then maybe they deserve to lose.

If they keep losing, then perhaps they will finally wake up and start paying attention the the conservative base in this country, or that tree of Liberty will get watered once enough people get fed up with the BS in DC.

Do I expect some sort of utopian conservative world?  Of course not.  I'd gladly settle for a party that claims to be conservative to merely act like it more often than not.  Something that the GOP leadership has been failing badly at for over 20 years now IMHO.
 
I will now sit back and wait to be told that I too live in some fantasy world.

You answered your own qualms in hoping that the GOP will move to the right and saying that you don`t believe in a utopian world.

What then is the minimum of agreement you would still support?
It is kind of a silly question I guess in that acceptance of less then perfect can shift when faced with the real life alternative but do you think this country has the time right now to sort all that out?

If no one can state how things can halt what we are seeing happening now in 2010 or 2012 then what point is there in talking about what may be 15 years from now?
That is my "honest" question and one that is immediate imo rather then speculating on ideals.

[rich_t]

You answered your own qualms in hoping that the GOP will move to the right and saying that you don`t believe in a utopian world.

What then is the minimum of agreement you would still support?
It is kind of a silly question I guess in that acceptance of less then perfect can shift when faced with the real life alternative but do you think this country has the time right now to sort all that out?

If no one can state how things can halt what we are seeing happening now in 2010 or 2012 then what point is there in talking about what may be 15 years from now?
That is my "honest" question and one that is immediate imo rather then speculating on ideals.

Actually Carl, I didn't express any qualms.  I expressed my dissatisfaction with the GOP as it currently exists.  Nor do I have any hope that the GOP will move back to the right sans a major house cleaning, which quite frankly, I don't see happening.

As to the minimum amount of agreement I would support, I suppose that would depend on various issues.  But on average if they would conduct themselves as true conservatives at least 75% of the time, I guess I could live with them acting like lib-lites the other 25%.

Can you sit there and honestly claim that the GOP has acted in a fashion that you would choose to defend/support for the past 20+ years?  Do you think they have operated within the authority enumerated to them by the COTUS when they were in charge of both houses of Congress and the WH?  Do you honestly think that the current group gives a tinkers damn about following the Constitution?  If they do, they sure don't seem to act like it.

Do you honestly think that their track record is going to improve?  BKG was quite correct about the 40% growth in the size of the Fed under Bush.  Have you seen many so called conservative members of Congress proposing any legislation to reduce that size?  I haven't.

Personally I think Heinlein was right....  The republic doomed itself when it allowed universal sufferage.

Oh, and one final note.  I do believe in a utopian world.  It is where I will be living upon my death as I bask in the glory of the Kingdom of God.

[formerlurker]

bkg,

I agree with everything you've said on this thread concerning the current GOP.  They are just as bad as the Dems; they are merely driving the country to ruin at a slower pace.

I have no faith in either party at this point.  With any luck the GOP party might be dragged kicking and screaming back toward the right, but without a major house cleaning in DC and the party leadership in general, I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Simply put, the current crop seems entirely too interested in being lib-lite instead of conservatives.

I too am weary of voting the the lesser of two evils.  So if a true conservative independant runs, I will vote for them.  If that causes the Repubs to lose due to splitting the vote so be it.  If the GOP can't act like the conservatives that they claim to be then maybe they deserve to lose.

If they keep losing, then perhaps they will finally wake up and start paying attention the the conservative base in this country, or that tree of Liberty will get watered once enough people get fed up with the BS in DC.

Do I expect some sort of utopian conservative world?  Of course not.  I'd gladly settle for a party that claims to be conservative to merely act like it more often than not.  Something that the GOP leadership has been failing badly at for over 20 years now IMHO.
 
I will now sit back and wait to be told that I too live in some fantasy world.

Please direct us to the point in time that was acceptably conservative to you so that we can ponder if that can happen again.

[rich_t]

Two words that I like:

Term Limits.

That might go a long way in fixing a few problems caused by the idiots in DC.

[formerlurker]

I think MSB has the beginning blueprints to moving the GOP to the right and that is local races (as those politicians aspire for higher office).   Find, groom and support those candidates to reshape the GOP, or hell just run yourself.  

[formerlurker]

Two words that I like:

Term Limits.

That might go a long way in fixing a few problems caused by the idiots in DC.

Agreed.

[rich_t]

Please direct us to the point in time that was acceptably conservative to you so that we can ponder if that can happen again.

I never said that such a time ever existed.

Does that mean I should not hope for such a time to come? 

Does that mean I shouldn't work to see such a time in our future?

[formerlurker]

I never said that such a time ever existed.

Does that mean I should not hope for such a time to come? 

Does that mean I shouldn't work to see such a time in our future?

Your plan is to stay at home, and by default vote for the Democrat -- or perhaps vote for the guy who has no chance in hades of winning.    That is going to effect change?   Nah, it won't.

What it will do is move the base to the moderates, which is what has happened and will continue to happen.   

[rich_t]

I think MSB has the beginning blueprints to moving the GOP to the right and that is local races (as those politicians aspire for higher office).   Find, groom and support those candidates to reshape the GOP, or hell just run yourself.  

That is a good idea indeed.  It is a step that must be taken IMO.  But it will take a decade or two for it to trickle up.

We also need to get the libs out of running our schools ASAP.  But that too will take decades before we see any results.

The fight will not be a short one, and the average American voter is an apathetic twit that can't be bothered to maintain the type of vigilance needed to accomplish it.

IMO.

[Carl]

Actually Carl, I didn't express any qualms.  I expressed my dissatisfaction with the GOP as it currently exists.  Nor do I have any hope that the GOP will move back to the right sans a major house cleaning, which quite frankly, I don't see happening.

As to the minimum amount of agreement I would support, I suppose that would depend on various issues.  But on average if they would conduct themselves as true conservatives at least 75% of the time, I guess I could live with them acting like lib-lites the other 25%.

Can you sit there and honestly claim that the GOP has acted in a fashion that you would choose to defend/support for the past 20+ years?  Do you think they have operated within the authority enumerated to them by the COTUS when they were in charge of both houses of Congress and the WH?  Do you honestly think that the current group gives a tinkers damn about following the Constitution?  If they do, they sure don't seem to act like it.

Do you honestly think that their track record is going to improve?  BKG was quite correct about the 40% growth in the size of the Fed under Bush.  Have you seen many so called conservative members of Congress proposing any legislation to reduce that size?  I haven't.

Personally I think Heinlein was right....  The republic doomed itself when it allowed universal sufferage.

Oh, and one final note.  I do believe in a utopian world.  It is where I will be living upon my death as I bask in the glory of the Kingdom of God.

Is it what I wished it was then the answer is completely no.
Was President Reagan a perfect conservative...again no but we all would take him in a second if possible.

The alternative of today..The health care bill soon to be law.
What will pull us back from that?
Cap and trade that is coming as well?

As gut wrenching as McCain was and hopefully will not see again for a long time does anyone think that things would be what they are today or ever had he won?

I really am trying to be pragmatic and realistic about things even if it sounds like I am being a wet rag about stuff,

Tell me where or how a third party deeply conservative movement will over run Congress in 2010 and establish itself as the majority..I will sign on in a second.
If one can`t then it is just so much talk not to sound nasty about it but it just is.

[formerlurker]

That is a good idea indeed.  It is a step that must be taken IMO.  But it will take a decade or two for it to trickle up.

We also need to get the libs out of running our schools ASAP.  But that too will take decades before we see any results.

The fight will not be a short one, and the average American voter is an apathetic twit that can't be bothered to maintain the type of vigilance needed to accomplish it.

IMO.

In local races candidates get a list of actual voters -- and those are the voters they spend their most time courting.  You may be a registered voter, but if you haven't or just don't vote, they don't spend much time caring about your opinion.

[rich_t]

Your plan is to stay at home, and by default vote for the Democrat -- or perhaps vote for the guy who has no chance in hades of winning.    That is going to effect change?   Nah, it won't.

What it will do is move the base to the moderates, which is what has happened and will continue to happen.  

Huh?

Just where in the hell did you see me say I would just stay home?  Will I vote for a candidate that I feel is the best conservative running?

Damn right I will.  If they are an independant so be it.  If they split the vote, so be it.

It's people that vote for the party and only the party that are the reason this country is so ****ed up right now IMO.

As I have previously stated, if the GOP loses enough elections then maybe, just maybe they will wake the hell up and start asking why.

If they don't then perhaps they deserve to lose as they are obvioulsy not interested in serving the will of the people.

Yeah... continuing to vote for the same type of lame assed lib-lite republicans sure has effected a change hasn't it?  After all, they have the right letter behind their name.

[Carl]

That is a good idea indeed.  It is a step that must be taken IMO.  But it will take a decade or two for it to trickle up.

We also need to get the libs out of running our schools ASAP.  But that too will take decades before we see any results.

The fight will not be a short one, and the average American voter is an apathetic twit that can't be bothered to maintain the type of vigilance needed to accomplish it.

IMO.

Just a question and maybe worth another thread but how do we get the libs out of the public school system?

I am with you but just saying it doesn`t make it happen so what is the mechanism to get that genie back in the bottle?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

The fight will not be a short one, and the average American voter is an apathetic twit that can't be bothered to maintain the type of vigilance needed to accomplish it.

IMO.

That's why I'm more interested in supporting a voting bloc than a party. Any political strategy has to account for the fact that a large portion of the voting public is comprised of headline skimmers.

The tea parties created headlines and--despite the MSM's best efforts--portraying them as racist hicks did not blunt their impact.

Not that I'm not sympathetic to your notion of voting conservative only. Palin is the only thing that got me out of the house in 2008 and that was only because I was salivating at the prospect of voting for her in 2016. I took a lot of heat on this very forum for railing against McCain and none of his subsequent behavior has done nothing to alter my opinion of him. At least with Obama the enemy is more readily recognizable (no, lurking libs, it isn't his swarthy skin). With McCain the GOP would be dragged into healthcare reform and crap-n-trade.

[Carl]

Huh?

Just where in the hell did you see me say I would just stay home?  Will I vote for a candidate that I feel is the best conservative running?

Damn right I will.  If they are an independant so be it.  If they split the vote, so be it.

It's people that vote for the party and only the party that are the reason this country is so ****ed up right now IMO.

As I have previously stated, if the GOP loses enough elections then maybe, just maybe they will wake the hell up and start asking why.

If they don't then perhaps they deserve to lose as they are abvioulsy not interested in serving the will of the people.

Yeah... continuing to vote for the same type of lame assed lib-lite republicans sure has effected a change hasn't it?  After all, they have the right letter behind their name.

Doing it in 1980 to give Reagan a Senate majority and a working majority wasn`t a bad thing.
It sure helped check Clinton in 1994 after he lurched to the left once President.

Look at history as it was.

[formerlurker]

Quote from: rich_t on Today at 06:42:34 pm


As I have previously stated, if the GOP loses enough elections then maybe, just maybe they will wake the hell up and start asking why.

If they don't then perhaps they deserve to lose as they are abvioulsy not interested in serving the will of the people.

Yeah... continuing to vote for the same type of lame assed lib-lite republicans sure has effected a change hasn't it?  After all, they have the right letter behind their name.

When has that happened?   It hasn't, because it will never happen.  They will instead chase the moderates, which is what they have been doing while the "real" conservatives are sitting around dreaming about their utopias so much so that Dr. Lunatic from Texas is sounding good to them.

Scary.

The "progressive" Democrats (read socialists) are in power and are scaring the hell out of the Reagan democrats (moderates).   The GOP will court them for 2010 and 2012. Count on it.  A move to the far right just isn't going to happen with the GOP in the state it is now.    A third party will ensure another progressive Democratic win.   Why the GOP can't see that I have no idea.  

[formerlurker]

Just a question and maybe worth another thread but how do we get the libs out of the public school system?

I am with you but just saying it doesn`t make it happen so what is the mechanism to get that genie back in the bottle?

Federal money that is tied to true accountability is one way (which as you said is another forum altogether).

I think that local control has been systematically stripped away giving state and federal level government WAY too much say over public education.   School Committees/Boards have become ceremonial due to various nonsense reforms at the state level.   I would love to see state governors waiving the stranglehold unions have over school districts -- make teachers actual employees again who work on merit raise systems.  Imagine?  

I could probably rant for days on this topic.

[rich_t]

Is it what I wished it was then the answer is completely no.
Was President Reagan a perfect conservative...again no but we all would take him in a second if possible.

The alternative of today..The health care bill soon to be law.
What will pull us back from that?
Cap and trade that is coming as well?

As gut wrenching as McCain was and hopefully will not see again for a long time does anyone think that things would be what they are today or ever had he won?

I really am trying to be pragmatic and realistic about things even if it sounds like I am being a wet rag about stuff,

Tell me where or how a third party deeply conservative movement will over run Congress in 2010 and establish itself as the majority..I will sign on in a second.
If one can`t then it is just so much talk not to sound nasty about it but it just is.

Carl,

You have to start thinking more long term.  Yes, 2010 is critical as far as congress goes.  But then what?  2012 right?

What about 10 years from now?  Or 20?  Ya have to start somewhere and continuing to vote for a party that claims to be conservative yet doesn't comport themselves as such is NOT a long term answer.

If the GOP expects to remain a viable entity it needs to start living up to what it claims to be...  C-O-N-S-E-R-V-A-T-I-V-E.

Otherwise it needs to stop calling itself or even attempting to call itself a conservative group.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.



As long as folks cotninue to focus on merely the next election, the problems will only continue to remain problems.

[rich_t]

In local races candidates get a list of actual voters -- and those are the voters they spend their most time courting.  You may be a registered voter, but if you haven't or just don't vote, they don't spend much time caring about your opinion.

I am a registered voter and I vote.

[formerlurker]

I am a registered voter and I vote.

Start making some calls then to  your local reps.  It has to start somewhere.

[rich_t]

Just a question and maybe worth another thread but how do we get the libs out of the public school system?

I am with you but just saying it doesn`t make it happen so what is the mechanism to get that genie back in the bottle?

Well, the only starting point I can think of is to start electing conservatives to the local school boards.  The next step, which I don't see happening without a major fight is getting the FED out of the public education arena.

The Department of Education needs to be disbanded.  PERIOD.