Sarah Palin & the M4 (machine gun)

[Donpeyote]

Yeah, get caught holding one with no machinegun paperwork at your home, and then try that argument with the ATFE.  Let me know how it works for ya.

 

It's not illegal to own a Carb 15 or an AR-15 SP1. Or was this directed at me?

Rebel, it was directed at your comment about the M4 and M16 not being machineguns, which was in the quote box in my post, and which made no referense whatsoever to AR 15 variants or the other toys discussed down the thread.  The military nomenclature doesn't really mean Jack if they are defined as machineguns by law and you get caught with one that has no papers, the Federal District Judge is going to focus on whether it quacks like a duck, not whether it answers to "Duck" for a name.

Ditto !

[Rebel]

THE NFA applies to all States & territories (Including the Confederacy)

Well, I bought a Carb 15 about 10 years ago from an off-duty cop at a gun show. Guess they're not that illegal. Not to mention, they're on sale all day long at many pawn shops and other firearms dealers. Same with AR-15's.

[Donpeyote]

THE NFA applies to all States & territories (Including the Confederacy)

Well, I bought a Carb 15 about 10 years ago from an off-duty cop at a gun show. Guess they're not that illegal. Not to mention, they're on sale all day long at many pawn shops and other firearms dealers. Same with AR-15's.

What part of "Selective Fire" did you miss ?

[Rebel]

Rebel, it was directed at your comment about the M4 and M16 not being machineguns, which was in the quote box in my post, and which made no referense whatsoever to AR 15 variants or the other toys discussed down the thread.  The military nomenclature doesn't really mean Jack if they are defined as machineguns by law and you get caught with one that has no papers, the Federal District Judge is going to focus on whether it quacks like a duck, not whether it answers to "Duck" for a name.

Well sir, maybe someone needs to head to Benning, Jackson, Knox, Leonard Wood, and pretty much everywhere in the country with a range and tell them that an M-16 is now a "machine gun". I could care less about what the "law" says, as it wasn't my point.

[Donpeyote]

Rebel, it was directed at your comment about the M4 and M16 not being machineguns, which was in the quote box in my post, and which made no referense whatsoever to AR 15 variants or the other toys discussed down the thread.  The military nomenclature doesn't really mean Jack if they are defined as machineguns by law and you get caught with one that has no papers, the Federal District Judge is going to focus on whether it quacks like a duck, not whether it answers to "Duck" for a name.

Well sir, maybe someone needs to head to Benning, Jackson, Knox, Leonard Wood, and pretty much everywhere in the country with a range and tell them that an M-16 is now a "machine gun". I could care less about what the "law" says, as it wasn't my point.

at any range you will find Semi-Auto AR15's and their Clones but a Selective Fire/3 Round burst/FA M 16variant will get you arrested (If your not leagaly in posestion of said Full auto weapon) and by leagle 9I do not mean I bought it off a Bikers shoulder at a Gun show 10 years ago (And they wanted me to  Lay down in this thread SHEESH ....)   

[TheSarge]

Ok for the slow blinkers and head trauma patients this is a quick reminder:



Assault Rifle:





Machine Gun:

[Rebel]

Is she around the military in that photo? Or on the block in Alaska? Around the military? Ok, now go ask the military if an M-4 is a "machine gun".

[Donpeyote]

 Any Court in USA (selective FIRE M4/ MODDED AR VARIANT/ M16 Clone / Baby Armalite/ M16 Pistol creation... is a Machine Gun ) the Judge wins

[TheSarge]

Is she around the military in that photo? Or on the block in Alaska? Around the military? Ok, now go ask the military if an M-4 is a "machine gun".

Ooooh ooooh picke me PICKE ME!

I'm an active duty Staff Sergeant.

I can answer that question.

[Donpeyote]

Is she around the military in that photo? Or on the block in Alaska? Around the military? Ok, now go ask the military if an M-4 is a "machine gun".

Ooooh ooooh picke me PICKE ME!

I'm an active duty Staff Sergeant.

I can answer that question.   You should know about Civilian DA's & Judges (Especially Anti-2A ones and how they consider full auto or selective Rate of fire  AW's

Machine guns ...

[TheSarge]

Any Court in USA (selective FIRE M4/ MODDED AR VARIANT/ M16 Clone / Baby Armalite/ M16 Pistol creation... is a Machine Gun ) the Judge wins

Sorry dipshit.  you lose.

Any of the AR-15's sold to civilians are assault rifles NOT machine guns.


The M4 Carbine....M-16A2,3,4 are NOT machine guns.


The M240B....M249 and M2 ad their variants ARE however classified as machineguns.

Quit now before you get embarrassed any further.

[Rebel]

Any Court in USA (selective FIRE M4/ MODDED AR VARIANT/ M16 Clone / Baby Armalite/ M16 Pistol creation... is a Machine Gun ) the Judge wins

Have you seen some of the firearms classified as "assault weapons" by the law? The law is full of a buncha ****ing morons and sorry, I tend to go by the US Military's definition over some paper-pushing attorneys.

[TheSarge]

Have you seen some of the firearms classified as "assault weapons" by the law? The law is full of a buncha ******* morons and sorry, I tend to go by the experts definition over some paper-pushing attorneys.

Fixed

[Donpeyote]

Any Court in USA (selective FIRE M4/ MODDED AR VARIANT/ M16 Clone / Baby Armalite/ M16 Pistol creation... is a Machine Gun ) the Judge wins

Have you seen some of the firearms classified as "assault weapons" by the law? The law is full of a buncha ******* morons and sorry, I tend to go by the US Military's definition over some paper-pushing attorneys.

But we have to face Judges & DA's so use Civilian lingo with us ...

[TheSarge]

Definition of Machine Gun:

A machine gun is a fully-automatic mounted or portable firearm, usually designed to fire rifle cartridges in quick succession from an ammunition belt or large-capacity magazine, typically at a rate of several hundred rounds per minute. The first machine guns were manually operated, for example, by turning a hand crank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun


Definition of Assault Rifle:

An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine (not to be confused with a semi-automatic only replica) firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and high-powered rifle ammunition. Assault rifles are the standard small arms in most modern armies, having largely replaced or supplemented larger, more powerful battle rifles, such as the World War II-era M1 Garand and SVT-40. Examples of assault rifles include the AK-47, the M16 rifle, the FAMAS and the Steyr AUG. Semi-automatic rifles, including commercial versions of the AR-15, and "automatic" rifles limited to single fire only, even though incorrectly classified in the United States as assault rifles by the now defunct 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, are not assault rifles as they are not selective fire. Belt-fed weapons or rifles with fixed magazines are also generally not considered assault rifles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

[DumbAss Tanker]

Rebel, it was directed at your comment about the M4 and M16 not being machineguns, which was in the quote box in my post, and which made no referense whatsoever to AR 15 variants or the other toys discussed down the thread.  The military nomenclature doesn't really mean Jack if they are defined as machineguns by law and you get caught with one that has no papers, the Federal District Judge is going to focus on whether it quacks like a duck, not whether it answers to "Duck" for a name.

Well sir, maybe someone needs to head to Benning, Jackson, Knox, Leonard Wood, and pretty much everywhere in the country with a range and tell them that an M-16 is now a "machine gun". I could care less about what the "law" says, as it wasn't my point.

You can call it a Kazowie, it only makes you right in your own frame of reference.  Is it doctrinally a machinegun in military terms?  No.  Is it legally a machinegun?  Yes.  Are you behaving like a brain-damaged asshole yourself to call someone wrong in some cosmic sense for referring to it as a machinegun on a discussion board?  Unquestionably. 

[Rebel]

You can call it a Kazowie, it only makes you right in your own frame of reference.  Is it doctrinally a machinegun in military terms?  No.  Is it legally a machinegun?  Yes.  Are you behaving like a brain-damaged asshole yourself to call someone wrong in some cosmic sense for referring to it as a machinegun on a discussion board?  Unquestionably. 

Funny how you're basically doing the same damn thing. Also funny how the law calls them "Assault Weapons", not machine guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=awb

BTW, from the Brady Campaign's website:

Q: What is the difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic weapon?

A: An automatic weapon (machine gun) will continue to fire as long as the trigger is depressed (or until the ammunition magazine is emptied). A semi-automatic weapon will fire one round and instantly load the next round with each pull of the trigger. Semi-automatic firearms fire as rapidly as you can twitch your finger. This means that a semi-automatic fires a little more slowly than an automatic, but not much more slowly. When San Jose, California police test-fired an UZI, a 30-round magazine was emptied in slightly less than two seconds on full automatic while the same magazine was emptied in just five seconds on semi-automatic.

Ownership of machine guns has been tightly controlled since passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934, and their manufacture for the civilian market was halted in 1986. However, semi-automatic versions of those same guns were still being produced until the federal assault weapons ban was enacted.

Thanks for playing.

[Donpeyote]

To the Liberal Judges and News Media ASSUALT Weapons are Machine Guns ... You sure do livein a Conservative cave

[dutch508]

You are using the Brady campaign to defend a weapon's issue? 


back to the point.

The image shown with Palin holding a weapon is a simulator. The weapon simulated is an M4. You can spend all day calling it a vibrator if you wish, no one in the military will agree with you.

The key to the definition of Machine Gun in the military comes down to crew served weapons. A Machine Gun is a crew served weapon. Even the M249, The Squad Automatic Weapon, is not called a Machine Gun, just as the BAR, Browning Automatic Weapon, was not called one.

The M249 is issued to an individual, not a crew. A M240 is a crew served weapon. The M2, The Browning .50 cal Heavy Machine Gun is a crew served weapon.

You could attempt to call the M4 a sub-machine gun, but then again, the definitions do not back your statement.
A SMG uses a pistol cartridge, rather than a rifle cartridge.

BUT- from your own arguement:

An automatic weapon (machine gun) will continue to fire as long as the trigger is depressed (or until the ammunition magazine is emptied).

The M4 fires from semi-automatic to three round burst. It will not continue to fire as long as the tigger is depressed, and so fails to fall under your own arguement.

[Rebel]

To the Liberal Judges and News Media ASSUALT Weapons are Machine Guns ... You sure do livein a Conservative cave

Now you're backtracking. You said by law they're "machine guns". I just showed you where the law calls them "assault weapons". Now you're saying the media and liberal judges.

Per the United States military and the United States Code, weapons with a 3-round burst, LIKE the M-4, LIKE the A2, are considered "assault weapons", not "machine guns". Doesn't matter what a judge nor the media calls them. They would be wrong to suggest they're machine guns.  

[Rebel]

You are using the Bady campaign to defend a weapon's issue?

No, I'm using the law prove that an M-4, with a 3-round burst, isn't a machine gun. It's an assault weapon.

BTW, it was the Brady campaign that go that POS legislation entered into law, was it not?

[Donpeyote]

To the Liberal Judges and News Media ASSUALT Weapons are Machine Guns ... You sure do livein a Conservative cave

Now you're backtracking. You said by law they're "machine guns". I just showed you where the law calls them "assault weapons". Now you're saying the media and liberal judges.

Per the United States military and the United States Code, weapons with a 3-round burst, LIKE the M-4, LIKE the A2, are considered "assault weapons", not "machine guns". Doesn't matter what a judge nor the media calls them. They would be wrong to suggest they're machine guns.  

It's a Felony and the local Media, Leo's and Judge would still say Machine gun  Reguardless of how your lawyer says it was only an Assualt weapon ...

[Rebel]

It's a Felony and the local Media, Leo's and Judge would still say Machine gun  Regardless of how your lawyer says it was only an Assault weapon ...

The National Firearms Act in 1934 prohibits me from owning a machine gun that fires over 300 rounds per minute; these are considered machine guns. Show me a damn M-4 that can fire 300 rounds per minute.

[Donpeyote]

 BATF can do it lickety split , or they could just hire Jerry Miculek or his brother to shoot the weapon or have 50 round mags made up for the test ...

[dutch508]

To the Liberal Judges and News Media ASSUALT Weapons are Machine Guns ... You sure do livein a Conservative cave

Now you're backtracking. You said by law they're "machine guns". I just showed you where the law calls them "assault weapons". Now you're saying the media and liberal judges.

Per the United States military and the United States Code, weapons with a 3-round burst, LIKE the M-4, LIKE the A2, are considered "assault weapons", not "machine guns". Doesn't matter what a judge nor the media calls them. They would be wrong to suggest they're machine guns.  

It's a Felony and the local Media, Leo's and Judge would still say Machine gun  Reguardless of how your lawyer says it was only an Assualt weapon ...

Doesn't matter. That was not your point in the arguement. Not even sure what your point is...other than to be an ass.