Author Topic: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief  (Read 2977 times)

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Offline GOBUCKS

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DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« on: July 11, 2009, 09:06:12 PM »
This must be Cat Day at the DUmp. In this one, a DUmmy's cat has apparently killed a robin, thereby demonstrating more skill and initiative than any DUmmy. Nearby birds were raising hell, as they always do when they spot a roaming cat. The event was so significant that the DUmmy was moved to construct an elaborate fictional tale around it:

Quote
sharesunited (1000+ posts)      Sat Jul-11-09 08:43 PM
Original message
What is the purpose of grief in the animal kingdom?
Our cat killed her first bird today. She has caught birds and chipmunks before, but has only managed to play with them until they could be rescued and released by yours truly.

But she must have attacked this juvenile robin today with such a bad combination of gusto and clumsiness that she dispatched the poor thing before it could be saved.

I was alerted to the crime by the sound of every bird in the neighborhood suddenly gathered in the trees in my yard yelling "Murder!" (This was the first remarkable thing, to see and hear the community cry of alarm across the bird spectrum. Why does a wren care what happens to a robin?) Leading the cry was father robin, whose distress call obviously summoned the others.

I made the cat drop her victim, and brought her into the house, leaving the lifeless body on the lawn for a time.

Then I observed that the assembled birds drifted away, leaving father robin as the remaining witness and mourner. He was joined briefly on the branch by a squirrel who, for some reason, peed before also departing. (Was this sympathy, disapproval, or just curiosity and a full bladder?)
As anyone with the most casual knowledge of nature knows, birds will not share a perch with a squirrel. They are sworn enemies, especially during the nesting season, when squirrels raid bird nests. Anyway, back to the tale:
Quote
Father robin stayed for a half hour, uttering a slow, steady chirp like a dirge, as he turned his head sideways to gaze upon his dead child from above, cautious not to light upon the ground for fear of being attacked by a cat.

I have seen film of a chimp grieving her dead baby, and elephants grieving a departed elder. But bird grief is new to me.
Bird-brained, though, is part of his daily existence.

Quote
He finally mustered the courage to bring a cricket to the child, apparently hoping to resuscitate it with food. Finally accepting the stark mechanics of death, father robin also left the scene.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't recall ever seeing a robin feeding its young anything but worms. I guess it's possible, just not in the context described.

Quote
This was a moving and troubling experience for me. It made me wonder what the purpose of grief is at the animal level. I know there is a substantial body of work on the human psychology of grief and healing. But birds? Really? Birds? I was truly in awe, and still am.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6044288

This bouncy tale was so emotional, it moved DUmmy Cleita to post a secondary bouncy:
Quote
Cleita  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Birds I have noticed are very emotional. I once witnessed a pigeon hit and
 killed by a car. A neighbor moved the body to grass on a curb because she told me that the mate was going to try to be with it and there was no need for two deaths. The mate of the pigeon mourned and crooned about his mate for two days and then finally flew away.


Quote
flvegan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think it's both funny and sad how little is thought of animals in general.
 
I think that DUmmy Cleita and that ludicrous pigeon tale are both funny and sad.
 
Quote
BlooInBloo  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I think of them all the time. Right now, I'm thinking about which one I wanna eat next.
 

Quote
ColbertWatcher  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Were any crows around?
To see the kill or participate in the "mourning"?
I only ask because if so, your cat may soon be visited by some bird vengeance.

If any crows were about, they might peck at the dead robin.

Quote
Double T  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. Your story certainly destroys the myth by some that animals are 'dumb'.
A large segment of the human population has little or no regard for animals. I believe animals should be respected, guarded and protected at the same level as humans. Who ever appointed humans as the decider of which living breathing creatures have feelings, emotions and the right to live or die? Great story, thank you. 

We need free, single payer medical care for all animals, including reptiles and arthropods.

Finally, DUmmy InvisibleTouch offers a rare treat in DUmmyland, a tertiary bouncy:
Quote
InvisibleTouch  (1000+ posts)     Sat Jul-11-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. I saw it by the side of the road once.
Starlings. One was dead, presumably hit by a car. His/her mate was there by the body, unhurt but clearly traumatized.

I'm not sure there's a selective "purpose" to anybody's grief, regardless of species, but it's a byproduct of being able to form bonds with other living beings. And it's hardly exclusive to humans, nor even to birds and mammals: crocodilians defend their young vigorously - even the young of other parents - and I know of pet snakes who have died of grief upon losing the mate who lived with them.
Speaking with the authority of one who has sent countless hundreds of starlings to their just reward, poppycock.
That is as believable as a pet snake dying of grief!
 

Offline Carl

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 09:14:50 PM »
Good God the crap they dream up.
While it may be possible out of instinct for a mother bird to pay some attention to a dead baby to suggest that all the birds in the area were mourning is just batshit crazy and stupid.


Offline Freeper

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 09:32:23 PM »
good lord sounds like this DUmmy is writing a bad Disney Movie script.  :whatever:
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Offline Chris_

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 09:57:11 PM »
Quote
I was alerted to the crime by the sound of every bird in the neighborhood suddenly gathered in the trees in my yard yelling "Murder!" (This was the first remarkable thing, to see and hear the community cry of alarm across the bird spectrum. Why does a wren care what happens to a robin?) Leading the cry was father robin, whose distress call obviously summoned the others.

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!11!!!!!!

Oh Jesus H. Christ...no one can possibly be this stupid...can they???  :rotf:
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Offline SaintLouieWoman

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 10:05:55 PM »
Good thing I don't post there. They wouldn't like my comments about Blue and Darlene killing a momma bunny, then picking off the babies one by one. It's what dogs do, part of that chain of life thing. But I'll admit I really hated having to get that shovel out all the time.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 10:50:21 PM »
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!11!!!!!!

Oh Jesus H. Christ...no one can possibly be this stupid...can they???  :rotf:

Yes they can. They are dumb enough to attach human feelings and thoughts to animals. Dumb enough by far.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 11:03:33 PM »
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!11!!!!!!

Oh Jesus H. Christ...no one can possibly be this stupid...can they???  :rotf:

Tragically, yes...and the votes from them count just the same as yours or mine, and that's not even counting the dead and nonexistent people who also vote on their side.
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Offline Tantal

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 11:21:10 PM »
Quote
Double T  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. 
Who ever appointed humans as the decider of which living breathing creatures have feelings, emotions and the right to live or die?
God did in Genesis. Next question.

Genesis i: 26, 27, 28.

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female image, created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 11:28:38 PM by Tantal »
Never demand that which you are incapable of taking by force, DUmmie.

Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 11:58:43 PM »
I have young robins dive out of the nest to early every year. The cats are on them like stink on shit! All of the robins get together and make a big stink! They do tend to get together in order to dive bomb the cats!
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 05:30:14 AM »
I have young robins dive out of the nest to early every year. The cats are on them like stink on shit! All of the robins get together and make a big stink! They do tend to get together in order to dive bomb the cats!

True.  About 30 years ago, a next-door neighbor of my parents was being dive-bombed as he was trimming some spruce trees he had planted in his yard.  (Today, I belong to a deer camp that is on this guy's property in northern NY.)  Anyway, he asked my brother and I to come over and shield him from the diving robins (parents) that were making runs at him.  I grabbed a broom, figuring I'd use it similarly to a hockey stick to fend off the robins.  I noted that, as we worked our way down the bushes, that one of the robins was up in a tree, singing away, and the trees were massing with them.  Uh-oh.  Bob saw this and said to my brother, "Take a look into that next tree and see if you can see the nest."  So, my brother looks into the next bush--and the nest is eleven inches or so from his face.  One of the fledglings jumps out, Mommy Robin sqawks the attack signal, and all Hell breaks loose.  My parents, watching from their yard (about 100' away), said, in between laughs, that the air was filled with 15 to 20 of these orange-breasted dive bombers.  Naturally, the three of us did the safe thing, and ran away.  Here I was, supposed to be fending these things off, and I was in the lead running away, but for some strange reason, I was still holding the broom.

We still laugh about it to this day.
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Offline crockspot

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 09:21:21 AM »
Quote
Double T  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. Your story certainly destroys the myth by some that animals are 'dumb'.
A large segment of the human population has little or no regard for animals. I believe animals should be respected, guarded and protected at the same level as humans. Who ever appointed humans as the decider of which living breathing creatures have feelings, emotions and the right to live or die? Great story, thank you.

Wow, now fictional bouncy bird tales have become "myth destroyers".

I am in awe.

 :whatever:

Offline miskie

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 10:15:14 AM »
'Morans'. ---> Cats Hunt. It's what they do. All of them, including Fluffy Bootikins, Mister Whiskers, KittyBooBoo, or whatever the hell you named your cat.

They aren't vegetarians.
They don't eat tofu based VitaSoy enhanced cat food.

Even my well mannered housecat will catch and eat a bird if given the opportunity. If you can't accept that, then you shouldn't have a cat for a pet.

Offline miskie

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 10:20:51 AM »
Quote from: Double T
Double T  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jul-11-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message

18. Your story certainly destroys the myth by some that animals are 'dumb'.
A large segment of the human population has little or no regard for animals. I believe animals should be respected, guarded and protected at the same level as humans. Who ever appointed humans as the decider of which living breathing creatures have feelings, emotions and the right to live or die? Great story, thank you.

There is a difference between intelligence and instinct. Most prey animals will put out a warning cry when hunted.

Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2009, 12:00:55 PM »
Wow, now fictional bouncy bird tales have become "myth destroyers".

I am in awe.

 :whatever:

The fact that the DUmmies don't realize that "Dumb Animals" refers to the fact that animals do not speak makes them Dumb DUmmies.

I've seen birds act strongly when a baby bird is out of the nest, but I don't think that there are a huge inter-species mourning parties everytime a baby bird is killed by a cat. 

Offline Chris

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2009, 12:05:52 PM »
There is a difference between intelligence and instinct. Most prey animals will put out a warning cry when hunted.
Don't ever walk onto a beach during nesting season... those birds go nuts.  I was fishing off a small island, and the most direct route to the water from our camp passed through a nesting area for a bunch of gulls.  Those birds did a pretty good job of trying to scare you off... dive-bombing, noise-making. 
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2009, 12:41:17 PM »
Quote
I've seen birds act strongly when a baby bird is out of the nest, but I don't think that there are a huge inter-species mourning parties everytime a baby bird is killed by a cat. 


Well, then, you just haven't been observant enough.

So, anyway, the other day our cat waited near a chipmunk's burrow in the edge of our backyard. When the chipmunk ventured out, she pounced, and killed the poor rodent. The chippie was dead, but at least our cat, as considerate and compassionate as any cat I've ever personally known, made every effort to be sure the kill was as painless and humane as possible.

So, I brought the cat indoors immediately, rebuked her, and began to explain how she should show more respect for her fellow species. I'm sure that as she becomes more acclimated to a vegan diet these barbaric episodes will fade away.

Anyway, about that time I glanced out the window, and was amazed to see a huge flock of bluebirds appear, seemingly out of nowhere. They seemed to be sad, with sagging beaks and glistening eyes. Without hesitation, the bluebirds descended onto my partner's flower beds, pecking at the stem of each blossom until it broke free. Then all these bluebirds, each with a flower blossom clutched in its quivering beak, slowly sailed over to dead chipmunk. Blossoms rained down, and within seconds, the tiny lifeless body was covered by a beautiful floral blanket.

So,  anyway, I just stood there in awe at the majesty of Mother Nature, having never before suspected the depth of interspecies mourning. Just as I thought nothing could ever match the emotional weight of that moment, a raccoon came out of the bushes behind the flower bed. With slow, measured paces, this big raccoon approached the deceased chipmunk's burrow, paused for a moment, and set down a freshly baked casserole.


Offline Chris

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2009, 12:59:15 PM »
oh, lawd... :rotf:
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2009, 01:01:41 PM »
this big raccoon approached the deceased chipmunk's burrow, paused for a moment, and set down a freshly baked casserole.

lol!!

 :rotf:

Offline miskie

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 01:18:21 PM »
Don't ever walk onto a beach during nesting season... those birds go nuts.  I was fishing off a small island, and the most direct route to the water from our camp passed through a nesting area for a bunch of gulls.  Those birds did a pretty good job of trying to scare you off... dive-bombing, noise-making. 

One of the mail routes in town is along a rocky beach front that is inhabited by ducks, geese and swans. Walking anywhere near the coast causes them to go amok, instinctively defending what they believe to be their turf. Wild turkeys are nasty too. They twitch their heads about while clawing the ground and raising their wings to make themselves bigger. I just laugh at the turkeys. Swans though.. Very angry birds...

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2009, 01:56:00 PM »
One of the mail routes in town is along a rocky beach front that is inhabited by ducks, geese and swans. Walking anywhere near the coast causes them to go amok, instinctively defending what they believe to be their turf. Wild turkeys are nasty too. They twitch their heads about while clawing the ground and raising their wings to make themselves bigger. I just laugh at the turkeys. Swans though.. Very angry birds...

The cure for those turkeys is made by the Remington Arms Company.  Shot size 2x4 duplex shot loads, in 1 5/8 oz. sizes for a 2 3/4" load.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2009, 05:31:35 PM »
The cure for those turkeys is made by the Remington Arms Company.  Shot size 2x4 duplex shot loads, in 1 5/8 oz. sizes for a 2 3/4" load.

Naaa, just grab one of those ugly gobblers by the throat and spin 'em round a couple of times. Fresh free-range turkey dinner.

Offline LC EFA

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2009, 05:41:54 PM »
The cure for those turkeys is made by the Remington Arms Company.  Shot size 2x4 duplex shot loads, in 1 5/8 oz. sizes for a 2 3/4" load.

Is that what is otherwise known as a 100 ball duck f***er ?

Offline vesta111

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2009, 08:01:39 PM »
Is that what is otherwise known as a 100 ball duck f***er ?


This is so funny, time to put on the depends.

What does one call a group of Crows.???

A Murder of crows, why, well seems like their society is run along the lines humans do.

Up here in the North East we can go back to Edger Allen Poe and his drug induced storys that became house house hold known---before radio  etc.

Just a clip from my life here, I came home to visit my parents that live on a river, you know the tide comes in and out and at dead low I went out on the flats looking for what ever had washed up.

This darn bird was spooking me out, a crow that kept following me.  I am out there with a trowel digging up coffee cups that had fallen over board and found a bottle of some elixer, old bottle to bring home to Mom for her collection of finds from the river.

Darn bird was about 3 feet from me when it began pecking in the mud, I shooed it away and found a very small babys ring.  It was broken in the band but the red stone was intact.

WOW, I ran for the house to show off my finds and my dad just sat there laughing at me.

Seems a neighbors kid had found a baby crow and brought it home, put it in a cage and later on took it to a vet. to have its tongue cut.  Sure enough, the old wives tale is true this crow was now like a parriot, could be taught to say 5 or 6 words.

When the kid moved out the parents released the bird into the wild but kept the bedroom window open  just in case the bird wanted to come home.

Back then there was no real need for bug screens on the second floor of a house one just opend the windows to get fresh air,

Soon people in Eliot Maine began to notice small things were missing, all jewelery and even spoon collections.

The room the boy had lived in was only visited twice a year, and in the fall the family brought down the bird to winter in a larger cage.

Come spring, the bird was back up stairs with open window to do bird things, untill the day the owner died.

As his wife and mother to his children sat in the kitchen in a state of shock, their 4 kids came and ransacked the house for any damn thing they could get their hands on.

The youngest kid in the family the one that had rescued the darn bird 4 years ago went into his room to clean it out and found the stupid crow sitting on a dresser.

The bird could not get into his cage, the cage had become a wharehouse for goodies, anything that sparkled.    This stupid bird had been for a few years gone into open windows and taken the bling.

The family were honest folk and called the police, big to do in a small town.

Never forget that one meeting with that bird on the mud flats, it was not happy when I stole from hin/her that ring from the flats---but, I will never forget that crazy bird yelling at me "  I'm Cheree, look at me"



Offline terry

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2009, 12:59:39 PM »
oohh I have one.

My cat caught a baby rabbit.   She's a conservative cat and she was quite proud of her work and her reward.   She was walking down the street carrying it in her mouth.  She was going to bring it home to help feed her family.    A bunch of crows had gathered all around in surrounding trees, making a tremendous racket.  I think they were saying "NOT FAIR!" "NOT FAIR!!!"  "WHY DOES THAT ONE SMALL CAT GET TO KEEP THAT WHOLE RABBIT?"  "NOT FAIR!!!" "NOT FAIR!!"   A hawk was on the roof our house.

So the hawk hearing all this, swooped down on my hard working little cat and scared the heck out her.   She dropped her reward and ran for the hedges.   The hawk did not pick up the rabbit though, as it was not quite dead.   It hopped away.  Typical liberal birds were content with that though.. if we can't have it, no one can.

The cat being the industrious little creature she is, caught it or another just like it later that day.   This time she brought it all the way into the garage, so the family would get a chance to see and share her catch.


It's a true story, except that I can't prove what the crows were saying but they sure did make a tremendous racket .. it was like something out of Hitchcock.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: DUmmies Discuss Critter Grief
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2009, 01:12:27 PM »
Thats a good and realistic story

Dummie crows?