DU posts condemning Hamas are curiously few and far between.

[dutch508]

Beastly Boy (3,137 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215437034

An observation: DU posts condemning Hamas are curiously few and far between.


In the midst of a barrage of posts condemning the destruction of a single building in Gaza with no human casualties, it appears we are selectively disregarding certain aspects of the current conflict far more worthy of condemnation and outrage.

So far, over 1500 missiles, each one of them a violation of the Geneva Conventions, have been launched from the Gaza strip aimed directly, without any pretense to the contrary, at the civilian population centers.

Certain military resources are, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, being methodically co-mingled among the civilian population, deliberately exposing them to military threats.

The fact that Iran has turned the whole Gaza Strip into one huge ammunition dump is not even being mentioned.

While Israel takes much greater care to protect their civilian population, casualties, including women and children, are mounting on both sides.

I see little merit in taking sides when the fight between right wing zealots and professional militants gets murderously vicious, especially in light of all the civilian casualties that follow (actually, I find any such attempt a bit ridiculous), but I couldn't help but notice the inequity in dispensing outrage here on DU.

 

Star Member pwb (6,986 posts)

1. I thought Trump and Kushner fixed that for good?

I blame them.

 

RockRaven (8,428 posts)

2. An observation: DU posts condemning serial killers are curiously few and far between.

Some things don't need to be spelled out -- when the majority of people already agree on something, it is a waste or time, space, and attention to repeat it ad nauseam.

"Hamas is bad. They do bad things. No like.  "

Is that really better?

DU isn't in the habit of cheering on serial killers...

oh, wait...

edhopper (27,389 posts)

6. I have not seen any reports of Israeli children being killed by Hamas

Have you.
But Palestinian children have been killed by Israel.
Perhaps this is what attributes to DUers being upset and posting their displeasure.

Me? I am at a pox on both houses stage.

Beastly Boy (3,137 posts)

10. Now you have

,

Israel has reported 10 dead, including two children, as a result of a barrage of rockets on the country.


https://news.yahoo.com/israel-moving-towards-ceasefire-hamas-123116082.html

 

edhopper (27,389 posts)

23. It says the Guardian reported this

yet I cannot find it in the Guardian or any other source.

Of course Hamas shooting rockets into civilian areas, whether they kill anyone or not, is intolerable.

My post was not to excuse Hamas, but to explain, given the carnage Israel has unleashed, why the posts on DU have skewed to condemning Israel.

Beastly Boy (3,137 posts)

28. It says Business Insider reported this

https://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-israel-moving-towards-ceasefire-with-hamas-reports-say-2021-5

It appears Israel is far better at protecting their civilians. Certainly not a reason to condemn them.

 

Star Member hlthe2b (85,568 posts)

7. No one here supports terrorism. That said there is a tremendous power differential for which the Palestinian people remain exploited by both sides and are bearing the brunt as they have for decades. Arguably, the Israeli people likewise continue to be manipulated by Netanyahu and the Likudists and the former DOES benefit from this crisis.

When the power differential is so lopsided, it is obscene that so many wish to ignore the plight of the Palestinians. Enough said.

 

AlexSFCA (5,494 posts)

8. whatever we say, let's remember it's not Biden's job to intervene

IMO, it’s best to stay away from this crisis as far as possible. Otherwise it is likely only escalate further. When US gets involved in conflicts like these, it only leads to more deaths.
Also, Israel is classified as major non-NATO ally. Of course, US will always be siding with Israel. It is not even subject to discussion.

Star Member niyad (77,688 posts)

16. Perhaps you could give us the casualty totals for both sides? Help our understanding. Last number

I saw, several days ago, was 8 Israeli dead, and 100 Palestinians. I am guessing the totals are much higher now??

Israel is just better at it all.

Star Member Ms. Toad (26,623 posts)

71. From a friend in Israel, there is some truth to it.

I've seen screen captures of her phone with the warning messages to take shelter, identifying the time and location of incoming rockets.

I've also seen videos of non-stop incoming rockets (to Israel) in both day- and night-time skies So it's not as if there is no attempt to kill Israelis.

EX500rider (6,878 posts)

36. That's if you believe the figures from the Hama's controlled Ministry of Health

DU:
Israel: bombs news building to get at Hama's intel HQ - LIES!

Hama's: "We have X number of dead women & children" Must be true!

And I am not saying they haven't taken civilian casualties, that pretty much impossible for the IDF to avoid when Hama's purposely base rocket teams amoung civilians for cover and PR victories, but I'd take their figure with a grain of salt as it is in their interest to boost the figure.

 

Star Member DemocratSinceBirth (96,715 posts)

32. Bibi is an Israeli Trump.

He is making a tough hand worse.

Rustyeye77 (2,056 posts)

54. You seem to have a deep understanding of the situation.

What do you want Bibi to do?

Not respond ?
Make hamas happy by walking in the sea ?
Turn off Iron Dome and let as many of its citizens to be mudered?
Don’t return fire?

Star Member DemocratSinceBirth (96,715 posts)

61. I am a man of the left and consequently support Labour

I am a man of the left and consequently support Labour but they are small, weak, and ineffective.

There really is no left in Israel outside of the Arab political parties. It's mostly right and center- right parties. Bibi is a Jewish nationalist. Trump is an American nationalist. I understand the love of one's people, group, or nation and wanting to see them prosper but not at the expense of other groups, peoples, or nations.

What do I want Bibi to do? He absolutely has to respond to the rocket attacks. The first obligation of government is to protect its citizens. That being said he needs to stop provoking Palestinians. This latest round of violence started with a dispute over the Al -Asqa mosque. It's holy to Muslims. Let them do with it as they wish. I also wish he would have a "Sadat visits Israel" moment and truly reach out to the Palestinians. As Yitzhak Rabin said you don't make peace with your friends, you make peace with your enemies.

There are 5, 300,000 Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. If Israel grants them citizenship it will cease to exist as a Jewish state. If it rules them against their will in perpetuity it will cease to exist as a democratic one.

The status quo is unsustainable.

Star Member 11 Bravo (21,789 posts)

38. In days of yore, this would have been bounced to the I/P forum in a heartbeat.

Rustyeye77 (2,056 posts)

51. Only dead Jews get some fleeting thought.

To some people live Jews are compared to nazis. You figure out where that occurs.

ripcord (1,859 posts)

56. Most people are perfectly willing for ignore the fact that Hamas started launching first

They also ignore the fact that Hamas firing rockets from heavily populated areas increases civilian casualties which is a common tactic of terrorists.

Star Member DemocratSinceBirth (96,715 posts)

78. I'm not convinced most Arab nations want Israel gone .

They see it as a hedge against Iran who they fear. It's beyond Netanyahu but he should have a "Sadat visits Israel" moment and make a genuine peace overture to the Palestinians

 

RANDYWILDMAN (1,035 posts)

79. Fact, Israel has not treated the people of palestine as equals since their country was created

You reap what you sew.

You can't have peace when you are still building settlements

You can't treat people like less them human and expect them to respect you

Israel has ever right to be a decent country, but they continue to choose not to be.

Just so you know I have friends on both sides and they say this could be worked out, but Israel continues to not want it to work out, I wonder why ?

 

RANDYWILDMAN (1,035 posts)

85. I have read your posts in this thread, explain Settlements to me and were good

I agree those countries happily had a role in this and they have no excuse for how they acted.

Israel has put itself in a bad spot with the settlements and they have no plan to let them go. If they settlements stay no peace is happening anytime soon.

Beastly Boy (3,137 posts)

87. When you ask to explain settlements, I am assuming you mean settlements on the West Bank.

Because all 21 Jewish settlements in Gaza were turned over by Israel to Palestinian control, in some cases by the Israeli army forcefully evicting settlers, in 2005 (BTW, this shows that ending the existence of Jewish settlements is not only possible, but realistic).

Other than that, the only thing I can say about the remaining Jewish settlements on the West Bank is that they are illegal by any international standard.

Beastly Boy (3,137 posts)

90. Here's an example of what I mean.

A real one, not imagined.

Hamas launched 1500 missiles into Israel's civilian centers. Their intended targets were civilian, to the exclusion of military ones, and the intent was to kill civilians. Over 90% of the missiles din't reach their intended targets, due entirely to the effectiveness of Israeli defenses. As a result, while the intended lethality of the missiles was disproportionally high compared to the intended lethality of the force Israel used in Gaza, the number of casualties inflicted by this force was disproportionally low compared to that in Gaza.

On your scale of proportionality, does Hamas' intent count, or do they get a pass because they failed to achieve their objective?

On edit: does Israel get humanitarian credit for significantly reducing civilian casualties on territoris under their administration?

 

[SVPete]

FIFY:

Beastly Boy (3,137 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215437034

An observation: DU posts condemning Hamas are predictably few and far between.

Because JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZZZ!

[Ralph Wiggum]

FIFY:

Because JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZZZ!

When I waded into that cesspool yesterday, was expecting more Joooooooooooooooo hatred but it was strangely quiet about Hamas and the whole Middle East quagmire.

[SVPete]

When I waded into that cesspool yesterday, was expecting more Joooooooooooooooo hatred but it was strangely quiet about Hamas and the whole Middle East quagmire.

Hamas' thousands of rockets, kilometers of collapsed tunnels, and evidence that the building rented by AP and other Arab-Pali propaganda outlets was Hamas' intelligence HQ probably makes for muted "discussion". The contradictory signals from LIEden vs. The Squad also leave in doubt what the Democrat party line is.

[USA4ME]

RockRaven

Some things don't need to be spelled out -- when the majority of people already agree on something, it is a waste or time, space, and attention to repeat it ad nauseam.

That would mean that you primitives would have halted making negative comments about Trump (since the majority of you agree), which you haven’t and won’t.

Look dimwit, if you’re gonna lie (and being a liberal, that you’ll lie is a given), at least try to make it somewhat believable.

.