1983 Datsun 280ZX

[Eupher]

Emissions Inspection
HC: 82 ppm (limit is 220)
CO: 0.12% (limit is 1.2)
CO²: 9.5% (not tested)

Excellent results! Don't tell Al Bore about those CO₂ values. He might wanna send you a bill.  

[Chris]

Last year, the guy wouldn't even let me in -- said my car was "smoking" and refused to test it.  I ended up swapping out all the plugs and a gummed-up PCV valve.  I double-checked this time and made sure it was good and warmed up before going.

Got my seat covers ordered.  I'm off to the fabric store to look at foam samples.

[Chris]

Found some foam.  $25 a square foot @ 4 inches thick for the ultra-dense stuff.  I didn't get a price on the 2-inch foam.

[Eupher]

Found some foam.  $25 a square foot @ 4 inches thick for the ultra-dense stuff.  I didn't get a price on the 2-inch foam.

Ouch! Jeezus, you'd think you were buying mink, ferchrissakes.

[Chris]

I was told the 2-inch foam would be less expensive, but they have to call their supplier for prices.

[Odin's Hand]

Vinyl seats or somethin' like gata or snake? 

[Chris]

Original


Original

That's not really rust on the floor pan... that's the mat under the carpet that stuck to the floor and attracted a bunch of dirt.

[Chris]

I have some issues with the frame rail on the passenger side.  I went to jack up my car and the whole damn thing crumbled.  So.  I'll see if I can't have some sheet metal and angle-iron welded in as a replacement.  I'm not spending $400 on "reproduction" floorpans unless I absolutely need to.

A very generous quickie-oil place let me use their bay to take some pictures.  Also had them check my differential and transmission fluid, and they didn't charge me anything.  Life was good for a couple hours yesterday.

Driver side frame rail: good


Passenger side frame rail: not good




Also, my tie-rod bushings are completely gone.  Will do that later.  It's kind of lousy out there right now, so I might just swap out a couple of plastic bits for some pretty stainless-steel trim from another car.

[Chris_]

I have some issues with the frame rail on the passenger side.  I went to jack up my car and the whole damn thing crumbled.  So.  I'll see if I can't have some sheet metal and angle-iron welded in as a replacement.  I'm not spending $400 on "reproduction" floorpans unless I absolutely need to.

A very generous quickie-oil place let me use their bay to take some pictures.  Also had them check my differential and transmission fluid, and they didn't charge me anything.  Life was good for a couple hours yesterday.

Driver side frame rail: good


Passenger side frame rail: not good




Also, my tie-rod bushings are completely gone.  Will do that later.  It's kind of lousy out there right now, so I might just swap out a couple of plastic bits for some pretty stainless-steel trim from another car.

Unfortunately what you are proposing as a repair will likely compromise the impact integrity of the vehicle (if not the suspension geometry).......it would be a much better move to go to a junkyard, find a vehicle of the same type, and have them "section" the frame rail out........then have a good welder install it in your vehicle via "fishplate" welding......the repair should be done on a body shop Vector Plate, in order to keep the structural alignment of the chassis within specs......

More expensive this way, but the correct way, none the less......

doc

[Chris]

Thanks for the tip.  I'd say the structural integrity is already compromised what with that big hole there.  My 2+2 has a slightly longer wheelbase than the standard 2-seater -- not sure if that includes the frame rails or not.

I'm having trouble finding bushings for the outer tie-rods.  AutoZone only has the whole tie-rod end with the bushings already attached for $35 each.

[Chris_]

Thanks for the tip.  I'd say the structural integrity is already compromised what with that big hole there.  My 2+2 has a longer wheelbase than the standard 2-seater.

The reason vehicular structural repairs are important is, God forbid you get into an accident, your insurance company WILL inspect the wreck, and if they find structural or suspension repairs that are not done correctly, they can void your coverage.......

Cosmetic stuff isn't important, but messing with frame, suspension, brake and crumple zone components are asking for trouble.......

Every new vehicle undergoes DOT testing and certification, and the insurance companies base their "risk" ratings on those certifications, therefore, modifying the structure amounts to voiding that certification, and technically makes the vehicle illegal to operate on US highways.....

doc

[Peter3_1]

My area of expertise in Insurance span from 1970 to 2000 and include the states of NY, NJ,FLA., IL.  and CA. In none of those states may an insured peril be excluded or a paid for coverage part be denied unless the circumstance is listed in the exclusions section. There is no exclusion concerning structural integrity in any of those coverages on the "Family" Persional Auto policy .

There is a MUCH better reason to repair structural problems in the Chassis.  The chassiss could fail at an inopertune time, causing a wreck that results in death.  Maybe youirs.

[Chris_]

My area of expertise in Insurance span from 1970 to 2000 and include the states of NY, NJ,FLA., IL.  and CA. In none of those states may an insured peril be excluded or a paid for coverage part be denied unless the circumstance is listed in the exclusions section. There is no exclusion concerning structural integrity in any of those coverages on the "Family" Persional Auto policy .

There is a MUCH better reason to repair structural problems in the Chassis.  The chassiss could fail at an inopertune time, causing a wreck that results in death.  Maybe youirs.

I think that you will find a provision in virtually any auto policy that states (paraphrased) that any modifications to a given vehicle that alter its structural integrity to the extent that its performance falls outside of its manufactured DOT certification, can result in the policy being null and void......

I'm insured with Allstate, and I'm reading that provision right now in my policy.........it is significantly longer and more detailed than my paraphrased comments above, but it is there, in the very fine print.....it is in the "General Provisions" section of my policy.

doc

[Chris]

I took it to Vogely & Todd for an estimate.  They would have to replace both rails for it to meet insurance and DOT requirements, so I'm looking at a $4000 repair bill.  I'm not too worried about it.  That's about what one in good condition goes for around here and that's cheap -- I've seen them for $6-7k and up.  I can save about $500 if I remove the exhaust, transmission, and fuel lines myself. 

It'll be a few months before I can do anything about it.  My lease is up in June and I owe about a week's pay to the IRS by April. 

[Chris_]

I'm curious Chris.....where did this car live that resulted in that much corrosion damage to the frame?  Normally the floorpans, rocker panels, fender wells, etc. will go long before the frame........

doc

[Chris]

I'm not sure.  The fellow I bought it from lives in town but he was not the original owner.  It looks like there might have been some collision damage that opened up the rail to rust.  The front valance is smashed like someone hit something, but that's the only other damage.  The car could have been parked in somebody's yard... once the grass starts to grow up around the car and gets left there, you never know.  They don't use a lot of salt on the roads here and they didn't start doing that until about a decade ago when they were using sand instead.  The rusted rail is beneath the rusted battery tray but that's the only area of the car with any significant problems. 

[Chris_]

I'm not sure.  The fellow I bought it from lives in town but he was not the original owner.  It looks like there might have been some collision damage that opened up the rail to rust.  The front valance is smashed like someone hit something, but that's the only other damage.  The car could have been parked in somebody's yard... once the grass starts to grow up around the car and gets left there, you never know.  They don't use a lot of salt on the roads here and they didn't start doing that until about a decade ago when they were using sand instead.  The rusted rail is beneath the rusted battery tray but that's the only area of the car with any significant problems. 

Ahhh....perhaps the car was sitting for a long time, the battery discharged, froze, and the case cracked, spilling battery acid all over the frame.....that will certainly do it.

doc

[Chris]

The gasket that seals the hood in that corner had cracked and rotted and was letting water down there.  I replaced that last year and haven't seen significant amount of water pooling inside the car.  Word around the campfire (the Z car forums) is that area around the battery tray on all 1970-1983 models are prone to rusting because of that gasket and the general shape of the engine compartment.  A battery leak could have caused that, too.  The battery in the car is relatively new -- 2003, I think.  They sell replacement sheet metal for '70-'78 models, but not the '79-'83.  I had to go find that myself.

[Chris_]

Most of the early Z cars that I was familiar with tended to  rust around the rear wheelwell weld joint where it was mated to the inside of the rear fender........sorta in a large circular pattern, when it finally rusted through......

Also (I'm told) many Jap imports of that era were made with a steel alloy (without phosphate treatment) that had virtually no corrosion resistance, and they all tended to be rust buckets after a few years, in some climates.  During that time, I lived in Minneapolis, and they were rusting out like crazy from all the salt in the winter......

doc

[Chris]

That is what I've heard as well.  Italian cars were just as bad.

[Peter3_1]

TVDOC....Actually, there may not be any such exclusion in the family policy as it permits you to operate, as an insured person, ANY OWNED OR NON OWNED VEHICLE! New owned vehicles you have 30 days use before they have to be added to your policy......It is impossible to know what changes that have been made from stock in many cases.

You may find that the exclusion refers only to PHYSICAL DAMAGE and not to liability.

In what state do you live?

[Chris_]

TVDOC....Actually, there may not be any such exclusion in the family policy as it permits you to operate, as an insured person, ANY OWNED OR NON OWNED VEHICLE! New owned vehicles you have 30 days use before they have to be added to your policy......It is impossible to know what changes that have been made from stock in many cases.

You may find that the exclusion refers only to PHYSICAL DAMAGE and not to liability.

In what state do you live?

Missouri.....but I think we are talking about two different things......

When an insurance underwriter prepares actuarial risk tables for insuring a specific vehicle, they rely on the DOT standards performance testing conducted on that particular vehicle design.......it affects rates, when various elements of crashworthiness, rollover test performance, braking, handling, skid pad, etc. are concerned.....from that data the "relative risk" is determined, and based on average drivers, premiums are assessed based on these performance standards.  Each different vehicle design is rated separately.  For example:  you will pay higher premiums for a 4WD SUV, than you will for a passenger sedan.....due to the inherent increased rollover risk in the design.

As a result, the insurance companies will always include the caveat that they are insuring the vehicle under the assumption that its design and structure have not been modified from what they based their initial risk calculations upon......it has nothing to do with inclusions or exclusions.....and everything to do with the initial underwriting basis for that specific vehicle......

This is why if you construct a vehicle from scratch for some custom purpose, you cannot insure that vehicle under a standard policy.....and must find a "specialty" insurer that will write a policy for a non conforming vehicle, with no DOT testing performance ratings......

doc

[Peter3_1]

Such are forbidden in the states I mentioned. As they have all adopted the exact same insuring agreement as per an agreement among the various State Insurance Commissioners. Again, the LIABILITY insurance may not  have the insuring agreement altered without prior approval here. And for an ordinary risk, such wording would have to be manuscript.

I have no idea what Missouri permits a company to do. If you check your policy on the page where the exclusion is written, you will find a number on the lower left with an edition date to the right.  This will tell me if this is a standard clause , manuscript clause, or specific to Missouri.

NYS etal long since decided that such clauses were not in the public interest and do not permit them.  Here you may CANCEL the policy at anniversary, you may NOT deny the liability claim. The exceptuion is if there was proveable, intentional  FRAUD on the original application.

[Chris_]

Such are forbidden in the states I mentioned. As they have all adopted the exact same insuring agreement as per an agreement among the various State Insurance Commissioners. Again, the LIABILITY insurance may not  have the insuring agreement altered without prior approval here. And for an ordinary risk, such wording would have to be manuscript.

I have no idea what Missouri permits a company to do. If you check your policy on the page where the exclusion is written, you will find a number on the lower left with an edition date to the right.  This will tell me if this is a standard clause , manuscript clause, or specific to Missouri.

NYS etal long since decided that such clauses were not in the public interest and do not permit them.  Here you may CANCEL the policy at anniversary, you may NOT deny the liability claim. The exceptuion is if there was proveable, intentional  FRAUD on the original application.

Peter......I read you the provision from my policy.......I further stated that this is not about state regulations on insurance.....this is about the process involved in the CREATION and initial underwriting of insurance for a particular vehicle......what I'm discussing happens WAY before an insurance company even thinks about creation of a policy that will conform to various state regulations.

You likely know a lot about SELLING insurance, but it is obvious that you know little about how it is actually created at the initial underwriting level......

Continuing this conversation is analogous to a green grocer lecturing a farmer on how to raise produce......

Since you keep returning to your litany which doesn't address the actual issue......the discussion is over......

doc

[Chris]

Look at this poor bastard


http://www.zcar.com/forums/read/1/2132067