Author Topic: NU tells LeftTeat to park it  (Read 622 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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NU tells LeftTeat to park it
« on: September 04, 2014, 06:21:36 PM »
I was going to post about how the Proglodytes feel entitled to not repay the money they borrow but then I saw this:

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randys1 (3,227 posts)

26. The 1% and Wall Street have conditioned us well.

Practically every thought we have in terms of finance has been planted by incredibly productive and successful propaganda for about 100 yrs, pretty much since the Great Depression.

Some reasonable conditions existed before Reagan began an all out war on the middle class and poor, but even they were not as good as they could have been.

But since Reagan we have an entire nation of people who are worked to death so the one percent can live like gods.

We must erase all that we think is true about pretty much everything in this area.

For instance, go with me for a second, how much sense does it make to allow one family, the same family to own Yellowstone National Park?

Extrapolate out just a little, rightwingers take control of everything, parks system dismantled and property sold off, Walton family buys the parks and for profits them and owns them FOREVER, till the end of time no person can go to the park without paying them.

This is an exaggerated situation to MAKE A POINT...and it is NOT that FAR or big of an exaggeration.

And the idea that by lowering taxes on the rich and corps will trickle down to us, dear god people, look around.

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Nuclear Unicorn (12,159 posts)

31. I'd pay $5 to go to Yellowstone regardless of who owned it, the government or a private owner.

I would NOT pay $50 to go to Yellowstone regardless of who owned it, the government or a private owner.

My propensity to do anything is pretty much predicated on my sense of its value to me.

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leftstreet (26,520 posts)

33. There's no reason for an 'entrance fee' to a NATIONAL park

I think that's the whole point of the article

Working class people fare better when more things are nationalized than not

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Nuclear Unicorn (12,159 posts)

35. Really? Are you absolutely sure about that?

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leftstreet (26,520 posts)

37. Yes n/t

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Nuclear Unicorn (12,159 posts)

41. Golly. Cuz I remember not being able to take my SIL to any national parks

during the budget showdown-government shutdown because a bunch of self-interested, squabbling politicians were having partisan turf wars at the expense of the people.

So we went to a for-profit, privately-owned ice cream parlor instead because they had a personal interest in remaining open.

LeftTeat seems to have abandoned the conversation after that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025485048
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: NU tells LeftTeat to park it
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 06:50:18 PM »
I watched a PBS program this morning on the secret side of Cuba.....DUmmies would love Cuba....it takes 3 days wages to buy one bar of name brand soap.....but since the DUmmies don't bathe....that's no problem....fits right into their lifestyle.
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Offline Carl

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Re: NU tells LeftTeat to park it
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 02:03:13 PM »
It is actually a good read showing just how many deadbeat democrats have no problem cheating someone to get what they want and feel they deserve.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 08:11 AM

badtoworse (5,309 posts)
10. If you held that a debt was illegitimate and that you owed the lender nothing,...

...would you pay them anything? I don't think any reasonable person would. I'll concede that another interpretation could be that you would only be paying it back because of legal requirements that force you to. The distinction isn't really important because in either case, their position is bullshit. Nowhere in website did I find any mention of personal responsibility for borrowing the money.

People get into debt for all kinds of reasons but they hold that most individual debt is unjust. So you drive off in a new car that you borrowed money to purchase and it's unjust that you have to pay it back? Ditto for a house, going to college or maxing out your credit cards. What kind of shit is that? If you think having to repay a loan is unjust, the answer is simple - don't borrow money.

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 08:20 AM

morningfog (8,569 posts)
12. You gloss over the life necessities part.

Which I would argue includes education and other living expenses. Depending on where you live, it may include a car.

Borrowing just to meet life's necessities should not bind a person from upward mobility for the rest of their lives.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #12)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 08:29 AM

badtoworse (5,309 posts)
13. So you borrow money not expecting to have to pay it back?

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 08:32 AM

morningfog (8,569 posts)
14. You borrow money out of necessity.

And predatory lenders are happy to get you on their hook.

When people are in these situations, the future is not part of the equation.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 08:59 AM

badtoworse (5,309 posts)
15. You didn't address the pay it back part.

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:50 AM

morningfog (8,569 posts)
25. I did, you ignored it.

That isn't part of the question when people are in need and the only place they can turn for assistance is a loan.

Those who can pay it back can and do. Those who can't, largely because they are so saddled by debt, should be relieved.

I take it you've never been in such a situation. Count yourself fortunate

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Response to morningfog (Reply #25)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 12:41 PM

badtoworse (5,309 posts)
39. I guess I missed that, but let's be clear.

I have no problem with what you posted provided the person borrowing the money did so in good faith intending to repay the loan. As for being relieved if you can't pay, we already have that protection - it's called bankruptcy and I have no problem with that either if it's a person's only option. This is status quo, and it appears to be insufficient for Strike Debt or they wouldn't be taking the positions they are.

If they want to buy bad debt and forgive it, that's great. I might even contribute for that. If they want to counsel people about not getting into debt, managing debt and staying out of debt, that's excellent - we need that. My sense, however, is that they are looking for a "Get Out of Jail Free" card of some sort where the lender just gets stuck and the borrower just walks away. Let's call it mandated debt forgiveness. If that's the case, I'm not OK with it. The ability to borrow money at reasonable rates is built on the premise that the lender rights to be repaid are backed by strong legal protections. Take those away and loans will get very expensive and become unavailable to many otherwise credit worthy people.

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #39)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:04 PM

morningfog (8,569 posts)
47. Meh. **** the lender

These mutants are just plain and simply evil.

Offline J P Sousa

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Re: NU tells LeftTeat to park it
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 02:28:34 PM »
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  Working class people fare better when more things are nationalized than not 

I wonder if they have a hammer and sickle flag at home.  :whatever:
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Offline Texacon

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Re: NU tells LeftTeat to park it
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 04:33:22 PM »
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Response to badtoworse (Reply #39)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:04 PM

morningfog (8,569 posts)
47. Meh. **** the lender

Says the person who has never loaned anything to anyone.  Let this person get stuck a couple of times for nothing more than a cigarette and it'll be out borrowing money to hunt down the lowlife that refuses to pay up!

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Offline USA4ME

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Re: NU tells LeftTeat to park it
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 06:53:03 PM »
Quote from:
Laelth

11. We need a jubilee, but I seriously doubt that the global network of oligarchs would allow such a thing in this day and age.

Quote from:
BKH70041

19. I can tell you what would happen in a jubilee; oligarchs or not.
 
Let's use the Biblical example, which I believe jubilee was every 50 years. For the sake of discussion, let's lower that to 7 years.

If I know in 7 years that all debt will be forgiven, then I'm not going to loan money for a term longer than 7 years. With 3 years left until jubilee, the loan term will 3 years. I'll always make sure the final payment is due well before jubilee can have any effect.

If someone decides to default as jubilee approaches in order to obtain the product/service for less than what they fully owe, there would be some network put in place that would inform others that BKH70041 defaulted last time and is not to be trusted this time.

Put laws into place that prevent this and watch lending dry up. Make the government the lender and watch people who are honest and pay in full over the term express their anger towards those who didn't, and especially some average Jane/Joe who intentionally took advantage of the situation or received some special treatment not afforded to others.

I fail to see how a jubilee would do anything put make the burden of borrowing and repayment more difficult.

As to the OP, I have my own version of a "debt resistance movement." I never borrow more than I can afford to repay. In that way I have resisted debt for well over 30 years. I highly recommend others do the same. It uncomplicates life tremendously.

Quote from:
Laelth

62. You have been very fortunate.
 
Almost all the rest of us have had to borrow money at one time or another. If you have a house note or a car note, you have borrowed money to buy something that you could not afford at the time you received the house or car. If you have been able to avoid borrowing money for a house or a car, you are more fortunate than (probably) 95% of Americans. Bully for you. You're rich. That doesn't help the rest of us.

As for your "scheduled" jubilee, I agree entirely with your analysis. What you describe is exactly what banks and lenders would do if a jubilee were scheduled, and that would be disastrous for our economy. We must have continued lending. I agree with that.

No, in order to be truly effective, a jubilee must be unscheduled, i.e. out of the blue--catching lenders by surprise. Even so, I admitted in my previous post that my hope for a jubilee was a pipe dream. I'm not expecting one, so it's almost pointless to discuss what might happen if we had one.

That said, I thank you for your response.

Not only can Laelth not read in order to respond to what the other person actually said (the other primitive never said s/he had never borrowed, just that when s/he did they didn't borrow beyond their ability to repay), but this fantasy world where suddenly one day somebody or some group out of the blue decides to declare everyone debt free is beyond both stupid and funny. Should that ever happen, lenders would never lend again wondering when it was going to happen next.

Liberals are incapable of thinking beyond the next 5 seconds.

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I'm not expecting one, so it's almost pointless to discuss what might happen if we had one.

If it's pointless to discuss what might happen if there was one, wouldn't it also be just as pointless to even bring it up?

Laelth has got to be one of the most stupid individuals to ever breathe.

.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 07:01:04 PM by USA4ME »
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.