Author Topic: Was early Christianity communist?  (Read 4888 times)

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Offline JustSomeModerate

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Was early Christianity communist?
« on: September 24, 2023, 09:04:01 PM »
Some of the ways the early Christian communities conducted themselves strikes some as communist.
Modern Lithuanian speech is the closest thing to the Proto-Indo-European upon which the languages of Europe, North Africa, and West Asia are based.  It is possible at least a few people in the middle East spoke similar languages.
The term magic used to not refer to miraculous powers but to the practice of trying to apply an existing pattern to some undertaking.  A person tasked with providing patterns, if they spoke any near relative of proto-Indo-European, might call their job “Magijos Dalinimas”  because “dalint” means to distribute.
If they were named for their profession, they might have been called “Mag-dalina.” 
It is speculated Mary Magdalene was named for the town of Magdala but it need not be so, or it is possible the town was a center of people involved in “Mag-Dalinimas.”
It is said they had to drive out seven demons from Mary Magdalene. 
Perhaps back then they would form an unhealthy rapport that might have seemed like possession to those not in the know.   It seems possible some of the people in Roman-governed Judea practiced other religions, perhaps Babylonian ones.
In some places, they still try to pressure people into the life of an entertainer so they could use their intelligence to educate the masses. 
As for the allegedly communistic practices of early Christian communities, it seems possible that the price of admission was to give your all to help others like Mary Magdalene before they were marginalized into a sinful lifestyle, because they were probably being blacklisted from work.

Offline franksolich

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2023, 12:23:29 AM »
St. Jerome (circa 347-420 A.D.) was the first person known to read without moving his lips.
apres moi, le deluge

Offline enslaved1

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2023, 10:29:36 AM »
Is this somebody's bot program that posts random stuff and stories on message boards?  Maybe a poor ChatGPT attempt? 
Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Offline FlaGator

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2023, 12:57:57 PM »
It was communal but I don't think that is the same thing as being communist.
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Offline JustSomeModerate

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2023, 08:39:30 AM »
It was communal but I don't think that is the same thing as being communist.
What if the point wasn't communalism?

What if the people in Acts 5:1-11 passed because they didn't give up funds which they had gotten by the sale of their souls?

What if the main point of the communities was to protect people from being spiritually exploited by being forced into a spiritually exploitative lifestyle, even if they got paid? 

Offline FlaGator

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2023, 07:14:20 AM »
What if the point wasn't communalism?

What if the people in Acts 5:1-11 passed because they didn't give up funds which they had gotten by the sale of their souls?

What if the main point of the communities was to protect people from being spiritually exploited by being forced into a spiritually exploitative lifestyle, even if they got paid?

Ananias and Sapphira died because they thought the could lie to God and get away with it.  Also, the main point of the communities was to protect the followers of Christ from persecution by Jews and later the Romans and even later buy the sects that wanted to control whole of Christianity.

The communal nature of pooling their resources server the same purpose in all communal living situations, to provide for all equality so that a egalitarian life style could be established and maintained. However, human nature being what it is, makes this as difficult for Christians and any other group of people. We are a fallen and flawed people.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2023, 12:43:51 PM »
No. Helping fellow believers was voluntary.

No. The early church did not confiscate real estate or kill the owners.

No. The early church did not confiscate businesses or kill the owners.

No. The early church did not confiscate an ethnic group's food to starve millions of people.

No. The early church did not send people to remote islands or work camps.

If one bothers to read and understand the book of Acts, it will be clear that in the first year after the day of Pentecost, a large percentage of the people who had become believers were people who had come to Jerusalem for the holidays from Passover through Pentecost. They were far from their homes, far from their means of earning a living. They stayed in Jerusalem for an extended time to learn about their new faith, and needed basic things like places to live and food. Some believers who lived in or near Jerusalem voluntarily supplied their needs. Over time, the believers from other lands returned to their homes, carrying their faith with them.

A decade or so later there was a famine in Judea, and churches in Greece and Asia Minor voluntarily sent aid to the church in Jerusalem and Judea.

Socialism is not voluntary. Socialism rejects private property, while the early church avowed the Law against theft.

I've lost count ... is the the 532,879th time this Lib/Prog silliness has been answered here in the Cave?
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline JustSomeModerate

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2023, 04:49:38 PM »
Ananias and Sapphira died because they thought the could lie to God and get away with it.
I am suggesting it may have been because they made their money selling their souls for "magijos dalinimas" as the OP suggests. 

If so, holding some of the money back meant they weren't fully repentant.

Suppose the point of the community was to protect people who were in danger of being blacklisted into spiritually exploitative work.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 04:59:28 PM by JustSomeModerate »

Offline JustSomeModerate

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2023, 04:56:16 PM »
No. The early church did not confiscate real estate or kill the owners...No. The early church did not confiscate businesses or kill the owners.
Socialism is not voluntary. Socialism rejects private property, while the early church avowed the Law against theft.
I've lost count ... is the the 532,879th time this Lib/Prog silliness has been answered here in the Cave?
Please consider reading the OP.

There's an etymological case that Mary Magdalene's name may mean "Magija dalina" or "[he/she/they] distributes magic" in a language which is said to be as ancient as Latin, or Biblical Greek or Hebrew.


I am suggesting the point of the communities may have been to protect people from spiritually exploitative work. 

The intention may have been that the communities would become obsolete if society was ever safe from such work. They may not have been for everybody but only for individuals at risk of being blacklisted or bullied into spiritually exploitative work.

The term "magic" used to refer to trying to take the spirit or pattern of one person, place, or thing and use it to effect the outcome of another person place or thing, rather than to miraculous powers in general.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 05:07:26 PM by JustSomeModerate »

Offline FlaGator

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2023, 08:25:56 AM »
The term "magic" is much to broad  for us in the 21st century to apply any meaning out side the context of the era and culture using it. Magic in 21 century is an english word that has many definitions. Ancient Hebrew didn't have a term synonymous to "magic" al though they did have a word for magician, "chartom". The point of all this being is that historically there was no concept of "communism" as defined in modern ideology so to attempt to make a comparison between early Christian communities and modern communism is probably pointless.
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Offline JustSomeModerate

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2023, 08:42:13 PM »
The term "magic" is much to broad  for us in the 21st century to apply any meaning out side the context of the era and culture using it. Magic in 21 century is an english word that has many definitions. Ancient Hebrew didn't have a term synonymous to "magic" al though they did have a word for magician, "chartom".
From Online Etymology Dictionary:

Quote
late 14c., magike, "art of influencing or predicting events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces," also "supernatural art," especially the art of controlling the actions of spiritual or superhuman beings; ...from Old Persian magush, which is possibly from PIE root *magh- "to be able, have power."

Offline FlaGator

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2023, 09:01:16 AM »
From Online Etymology Dictionary:

The new testament was written before 14c, and it was not written in Old Persian so those examples are probably not as helpful as they seem. The new testament was originally written in Aramaic and Greek. I can't find any Aramaic references to magic but there may be some in the epistles where were mostly Greek.

Anyways back to Ananias and Sapphira. Their failing was that they calmed to have sold their holdings in order to donate it to the church. They further claimed that they giving all the proceeds from the sale to the church but in fact they were keeping some for themselves. They would not have been in the wrong to keep some or all of the money. There was no requirement to give. What the did to wrong was to lie about how much they gave and the probably did this out of pride to allow others to assume they were more generous than they really were. That was there sin and that is way they were punished.

Was this punishment too harsh? I tend to think so but I am not God and I do not know his reasons for these drastic measures but I trust that God had a purpose.
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Offline JustSomeModerate

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2023, 04:47:23 PM »
0I can't find any Aramaic references to magic but there may be some in the epistles where were mostly Greek.
The proper name Magdalene itself may be a contraction of "Magija Dalina."  Modern Lithuanian is definitely old enough to have sounded about the same 2,000 years ago and is related to Old Persian, not to mention the Gospels never say Mary Magdalene was from Judea.
Quote
Anyways back to Ananias and Sapphira. Their failing was that they calmed to have sold their holdings in order to donate it to the church. They further claimed that they giving all the proceeds from the sale to the church but in fact they were keeping some for themselves. They would not have been in the wrong to keep some or all of the money. There was no requirement to give. What the did to wrong was to lie about how much they gave and the probably did this out of pride to allow others to assume they were more generous than they really were. That was there sin and that is way they were punished.

Was this punishment too harsh? I tend to think so but I am not God and I do not know his reasons for these drastic measures but I trust that God had a purpose.
That is a common theory, but you admit that it doesn't fully make sense.  Can it be they held back money they made selling their souls?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 05:19:20 PM by JustSomeModerate »

Offline FlaGator

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2023, 10:16:23 AM »
I don't believe Satan buys souls. Why would he purchase something he already owns and how can Satan buy what can't be sold?
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Offline JustSomeModerate

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2023, 08:05:35 AM »
Oh, were we talking about Satan?

Offline FlaGator

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2023, 10:53:45 AM »
Oh, were we talking about Satan?
Who else would attempt to purchase a soul... if It could?
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Offline JustSomeModerate

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Re: Was early Christianity communist?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2023, 02:01:01 PM »
One of the reasons we don't sin is it promotes an unhealthy rapport by compromising spiritual barriers. 

A person could be said to be selling their soul if they sell access to their soul.