Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Kill 7 Police, 44 Private Citizens

[Servonaut]

Damn, I slacking off in my old age. 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3977048

 

Judi Lynn  (1000+ posts)      Mon Jul-20-09 10:47 AM
Original message
Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Kill 7 Police, 44 Private Citizens Over Two-Year Period 
 Source: Violence Policy Center

Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Kill 7 Police, 44 Private Citizens Over Two-Year Period
Posted : Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:22:32 GMT

31 Incidents Result in Criminal Charges or Suicide of Concealed Handgun Permit HolderWASHINGTON, July 20 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/

-- Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009 according to a new study (http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf ) released today by the Violence Policy Center (VPC). The release of the study comes as the U.S. Senate is expected to take up today -- Monday, July 20 -- an amendment to the defense authorization bill (S. 1390) that would create a de facto national concealed carry system, overriding the rights of states with more restrictive laws governing the carrying of concealed handguns. The amendment is sponsored by Senator John Thune (R-SD). Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) has said he will filibuster the amendment.

Because most state systems allowing the carrying of concealed handguns in public by private citizens release little data about crimes committed by permit holders, the VPC reviewed shooting incidents as reported by news outlets. It is likely that the actual number of fatal criminal incidents involving concealed handgun permit holders is far higher.

The study, "Law Enforcement and Private Citizens Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders -- An Analysis of News Reports, May 2007 to April 2009," finds that during the two-year period reviewed --
Concealed handgun permit holders have slain seven law enforcement officers resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All of the killings were committed with guns. An additional three law enforcement officers were injured in these incidents.


Concealed handgun permit holders have slain at least 44 private citizens resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were committed with guns. An additional six private citizens were injured in these incidents.


Read more: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/concealed-handg...

 

katmondoo  (1000+ posts)      Mon Jul-20-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is exactly what to expect 
 No surprise here for me.

rd_kent (1000+ posts)      Mon Jul-20-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
119. What, that the rate is so low?
 What is not surprising?

Mojorabbit  (1000+ posts)      Mon Jul-20-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
155. Where are the comparison numbers
 Edited on Mon Jul-20-09 02:50 PM by Mojorabbit
to people without a concealed carry and their stats within the same parameters? This study makes no sense without those numbers.

edited for extreme grammar offense

 

dothemath (167 posts)     Mon Jul-20-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #155
189. similar to .................
 a recent report of a small plane that crashed in a cemetery. 2 days later, the authorities were still finding bodies.

 

Mojorabbit  (1000+ posts)      Mon Jul-20-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #189
192. I'm sorry
 I am having a real foggy day due to a relapse of my MS so forgive me but I can't make heads or tails of your post. In clarification I meant, the number of people poppped for illegally carrying a concealed weapon against those legally carrying a concealed weapon. What is the percentage of those legally carrying against those not legally carrying. 99 percent to 1 percent? Fifty /Fifty. That would be good to know to evaluate the article. I hope this makes my comment clearer. Peace.

sodom (15 posts)      Mon Jul-20-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
251. did anyone actually bother to read the report, because its b.s.
 http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf

most of the cases cited no one has even been convicted of a crime. the truth surrounding these incidents is still unknown in many cases and has yet to be determined. a number of the cases deal with self defense, or home owners shooting at police during a raid thinking their house was being robbed. one of the cases a gun wasnt even involved but is cited just because the man had a permit on file. in another of the cases cited the man charged was a security guard who trained law enforcement.

this report is a joke. the position of this group seems to be more anti-gun than any opposition towards concealed weapons permits. its dishonest, unethical, and poorly written. the report is simply propaganda.

congratulations, you lack critical thinking skills

Buh Bye freeper

RaleighNCDUer  (1000+ posts)      Mon Jul-20-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #251
266. The point is, those who argue for CC make the spurious claim that
 those who get CC are NO threat to the public.

Obviously, people are people and getting a little card signed by the chief of police doesn't mean the carrier is any more to be trusted than anyone else.

Even the person who chose not to use his weapon to murder DID still murder.
 

A very massive bonfire. 

[thundley4]

How many people are killed every year by people with driver's licenses?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

How many people are killed every year by people with driver's licenses?

That's not exactly a good argument for our side.

A lib--if it were sufficiently quick-witted--would tell you that the only different between gun licenses and drivers licenses is a car is an EVERYDAY necessity for nearly every person whereas a gun is neither but you proved the point (as intended by the BS study) that licensing is not a guarantee of responsibility ergo CCW's do not prove a safety check to gun violence.

However, as the soon-to-be short-lived mole pointed-out the study is total BS but your analogy is critically flawed.

Sorry, just sayin'.

 

[thundley4]

That's not exactly a good argument for our side.

A lib--if it were sufficiently quick-witted--would tell you that the only different between gun licenses and drivers licenses is a car is an EVERYDAY necessity for nearly every person whereas a gun is neither but you proved the point (as intended by the BS study) that licensing is not a guarantee of responsibility ergo CCW's do not prove a safety check to gun violence.

However, as the soon-to-be short-lived mole pointed-out the study is total BS but your analogy is critically flawed.

Sorry, just sayin'.

 

But that was my main point. Licensing does not weed out those that are unsafe, but it tries to cut down the risks. As for driving, I believe most bad habits are learned after the initial license is granted.

And you're right, as the mole pointed out more crimes are committed by those without CC than with.

[Rebel]

How many people are killed by people WITHOUT a CC?

[LC EFA]

How many people are killed by people WITHOUT a CC?

Beat me too it.

[DumbAss Tanker]

It's fairly obvious from the way that reads that permit holders who were successful suicides are included in the "44 private citizens."  In fact some of the 7 cops might be suicides.

[The Village Idiot]

A lib--if it were sufficiently quick-witted--would tell you that the only different between gun licenses and drivers licenses is a car is an EVERYDAY necessity for nearly every person

Nah.... they oppose cars too

[Celtic Rose]

How many people are killed by people WITHOUT a CC?

Another question is how many people would have been robbed, raped or killed without their own, or somebody else's Concealed Carry?

[GOBUCKS]

Every hoodlum who breaks into someone's home for the purpose of theft, murder or mayhem falls into that "private citizen" category.
Any "private citizen" who crashes my door, or slips in through a cut window screen, has a high probability of adding to that total.

They are foks who "needed killin' ".

[Tucker]

Every hoodlum who breaks into someone's home for the purpose of theft, murder or mayhem falls into that "private citizen" category.
Any "private citizen" who crashes my door, or slips in through a cut window screen, has a high probability of adding to that total.

They are foks who "needed killin' ".

And the only reason some folk are still alive is bacause it's against the law to kill em.

[Chris]

Some interesting data: http://www.nationmaster.com/red/country/us-united-states/cri-crime&b_cite=1

Gun violence > Homicides > % homicides with firearms 39.5%
Murders/year 16,204
Murders with firearms (2002) 9,369

DUmmy statistics: 51 murders over a two-year period, or .0027% of all firearm homicides.  Quick, everybody panic.


 

[TheSarge]

So basically...if I have a CC permit...and I assault someone with my bare hands or a fence post or a tire iron...I would count in that percentage simply because I hold the permit?

That's how I read it...but I may be wrong.

[Celtic Rose]

So basically...if I have a CC permit...and I assault someone with my bare hands or a fence post or a tire iron...I would count in that percentage simply because I hold the permit?

That's how I read it...but I may be wrong.

That's how I read it too.

[rich_t]

So basically...if I have a CC permit...and I assault someone with my bare hands or a fence post or a tire iron...I would count in that percentage simply because I hold the permit?

That's how I read it...but I may be wrong.

You didn't read it wrong.

[MrsSmith]

Some interesting data: http://www.nationmaster.com/red/country/us-united-states/cri-crime&b_cite=1

Gun violence > Homicides > % homicides with firearms 39.5%
Murders/year 16,204
Murders with firearms (2002) 9,369

DUmmy statistics: 51 murders over a two-year period, or .0027% of all firearm homicides.  Quick, everybody panic.


 

Even less than that, if some of those private citizens counted were the ones that committed suicide. 

But that's not the point, of course.  All CC people should be absolutely, 100% positive to never actually USE those guns...just like every single Republican must be absolutely, 100% legally perfect.  Any time any Republican steps out of line, all 'pukes are scum.  Every time any CC person actually uses the gun, even in self-defense, all carriers are guilty.  That's DUmmy "logic" for you.   

[diesel driver]

I wonder if it would do any good to point out that cities with gun bans (D.C., New York, etc.) have higher gun homicide rates than those that allow gun within their borders....

Probably not....

These morons watched too many westerns when they were children....

[BlueStateSaint]

So basically...if I have a CC permit...and I assault someone with my bare hands or a fence post or a tire iron...I would count in that percentage simply because I hold the permit?

That's how I read it...but I may be wrong.

Add me to the list, Tx, as I read it that way as well.

[NHSparky]

Christ, more kids under the age of 3 drown in pools in a month than they cite here.  What a bunch of crap.

[Airwolf]

Seeing as how its from a well known gun grabbing group I would have to say this so called reports got more lies in it then a golf course.