The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: BadCat on April 25, 2008, 04:20:10 PM
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removed
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Medved was hyperventilating over the NC ad as well today.. i just had to shut him off.
I think McCain needs to let the states do what they want to do as far as their own down ticket issues..
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I think they are perfectly right to ignore his collegial Senatorial pontifications so he doesn't drag their
State races down to the 'Failure to launch' level of enthusiasm Conservatives in general have for his whole Presidential campaign.
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We need commercials like that to counter the Left, McCain won't do it. He's just too willing to let himself be taken hostage and tortured by the Democrats until the election.
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What's he so afraid of at this point? I think this is overreacting on his part. Or he's thinking ahead and hoping it won't come back to bite him. Oy....
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Looks like McCain is going to let the Dems walk all over him.
"They're not listening to me because they're out of touch with reality and the Republican Party. We are the party of Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan and this kind of campaigning is unacceptable," McCain told NBC's "Today" Show.
"I've done everything that I can to repudiate and to see that this kind of campaigning does not continue," he added.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2535509420080425
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McLame is out of touch with reality.
I love my country more than I like inane slogans that try to get me to vote for John McCain.
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I haven't had a drink since July 2001. I am going to need to be tanked to vote for this guy.
The incredible country we live in and these three clowns is all we have to chose from? :banghead:
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I haven't had a drink since July 2001. I am going to need to be tanked to vote for this guy.
The incredible country we live in and these three clowns is all we have to chose from? :banghead:
We had others early on, but they weren't the safe, slick, pre-packaged, middle-of-the-road, made-for-tv candidates like McCain. Consequently the MSM and the American people ignored them. We still seem to like the "comfort food" versions of politicians, at least on the right. I guess people just aren't fed up enough yet.
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Senator ***** really needs to read this letter and PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IT SAYS...
http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2008/04/24/man-up-sen-mccain/
On Wednesday, John McCain demanded that the North Carolina Republican Party remove a TV ad featuring Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s “God damn America†sermon which is being used to portray two Democratic gubernatorial candidates who support Barack Obama as “too extreme.†“There is no place for that kind of campaigning,†said the Republican nominee for president. Memo to Sen. McCain: wake up and smell the coffee.
The 20-year relationship between Barack Obama and his anti-American, black separatist “mentor†is fair game. So are his political associations with former Weather Underground terrorists William Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn and his “close friendship†with indicted real estate developer Tony Rezko.
Mr. Obama is not running for college president on some lunatic left-wing campus, Senator. He’s running for the most powerful office in the world, and the public ought to be well acquainted with the company he’s kept and keeping–loud and often.
Incredible as it seems from here, perhaps you’re still naive enough to believe the media which has treated you with kid gloves whenever you tilted left is going to give you even-handed coverage once the slug-fest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama produces a winner. One would think the hit-piece published by the New York Times regarding your ostensible extra-marital affair–a compendium of innuendoes, shoddy reporting and outright lies–would have given you a clue as to what is coming.
Either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama will do anything and everything to undermine your candidacy. How do I know? Take a good look at what they’re doing to EACH OTHER, Senator. Multiply by ten.
This is one American who’s damn tired of a Republican candidate for president who thinks going toe-to-toe with two irredeemable socialists is “unseemly.†Better to “disrespect†them than that part of the American electorate–hopefully a majority–which yearns to see a Republican show a little backbone. Nothing is more “hardball†than a presidential election.
“Man up,†Mr. McCain.
atahlert@comcast.net
while I respect your opinion, BC, the alternative is infinitely worse.
I think you should rethink your position.
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I haven't had a drink since July 2001. I am going to need to be tanked to vote for this guy.
The incredible country we live in and these three clowns is all we have to chose from? :banghead:
reality happens, FM. it just works out that way.
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well, lets look at this way; a seasoned politician out there yanking people's chains at 70 years of age is just unseemly. i can think of a lot of conservatives that would be turned off if he were to start catterwalling like Hilary and Obama at every turn. plus, he has 300+ million people to try and please and he is trying to take the high road.
so let him.
it gives the other side absolutely no ammo against him, but it keeps the Reverand Wright BS out there agitating.
i think this will work out just fine.. and Hilary or Obama will yet again do something stupid soon enough.
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don't count yourself to be somehow philosophically superior, BC.
We all hate our nominee. I am just willing to live with him.
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well, lets look at this way; a seasoned politician out there yanking people's chains at 70 years of age is just unseemly. i can think of a lot of conservatives that would be turned off if he were to start catterwalling like Hilary and Obama at every turn. plus, he has 300+ million people to try and please and he is trying to take the high road.
so let him.
it gives the other side absolutely no ammo against him, but it keeps the Reverand Wright BS out there agitating.
i think this will work out just fine.. and Hilary or Obama will yet again do something stupid soon enough.
I think that this is a smart move on his part. In private, he is probably gloating over the fact that the Magic Negro and this race huckster are joined at the hip. Look at all the mileage this gets. McCain is taking the high road after all he needs independents to win the election. All of the conservatives voting for him will not get him elected unless he can not pick off the majority of the independent voters. I don't think that some conservatives understand that fact.
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well, lets look at this way; a seasoned politician out there yanking people's chains at 70 years of age is just unseemly. i can think of a lot of conservatives that would be turned off if he were to start catterwalling like Hilary and Obama at every turn. plus, he has 300+ million people to try and please and he is trying to take the high road.
so let him.
it gives the other side absolutely no ammo against him, but it keeps the Reverand Wright BS out there agitating.
i think this will work out just fine.. and Hilary or Obama will yet again do something stupid soon enough.
I think that this is a smart move on his part. In private, he is probably gloating over the fact that the Magic Negro and this race huckster are joined at the hip. Look at all the mileage this gets. McCain is taking the high road after all he needs independents to win the election. All of the conservatives voting for him will not get him elected unless he can not pick off the majority of the independent voters. I don't think that some conservatives understand that fact.
I feel lucky I don't have to vote for him because all the disgruntled Hillary or Obama voters will.
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don't count yourself to be somehow philosophically superior, BC.
We all hate our nominee. I am just willing to live with him.
That is not a position, WE, I think the man is a first class ***** and an incompetent ass.
However, I will vote for him just to keep the socialists out of office.
Come November, there is going to be a BIG run on clothespins.
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Come November, there is going to be a BIG run on clothespins.
[/quote]
I used a clothespin the second time around for daddy Bush and Jr. Let's give this turkey a try. I do not think he will give us a socialist utopia with higher taxes like the 2 Democraps would.
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well, lets look at this way; a seasoned politician out there yanking people's chains at 70 years of age is just unseemly. i can think of a lot of conservatives that would be turned off if he were to start catterwalling like Hilary and Obama at every turn. plus, he has 300+ million people to try and please and he is trying to take the high road.
so let him.
it gives the other side absolutely no ammo against him, but it keeps the Reverand Wright BS out there agitating.
i think this will work out just fine.. and Hilary or Obama will yet again do something stupid soon enough.
I think that this is a smart move on his part. In private, he is probably gloating over the fact that the Magic Negro and this race huckster are joined at the hip. Look at all the mileage this gets. McCain is taking the high road after all he needs independents to win the election. All of the conservatives voting for him will not get him elected unless he can not pick off the majority of the independent voters. I don't think that some conservatives understand that fact.
McCain came out hard yesterday, or friday, against Obama's support by Hamas..
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Bush has tried the respectfully-disagreeing-statesman schtick for 7 years and it damn near cost us the war.
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Clinton: McCain could do more to stop Wright ads (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/28/clinton-mccain-could-do-more-to-stop-wright-ads/)
GRAHAM, North Carolina (CNN) — “I believe that if Sen. McCain were serious he would do more than send a letter. He is the putative nominee,” Clinton told reporters. “I think that he could very clearly tell the North Carolina party, tell the Mississippi party that he would not tolerate those kinds of advertisements and I’m waiting to see whether he does that.”
Obama has said that questions about his relationship with Wright are a legitimate political issue. Asked if she would engage on it, Clinton seemed to put the issue to bed by responding that she has made it clear that in Obama’s position she wouldn’t have stayed in the church.
“I regret the efforts by the Republicans to politicize this matter,” she added.
Just what the GOP needs... advice from someone who can barely run her own campaign and is coming in second place to an empty suit. ::)
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Clinton: McCain could do more to stop Wright ads (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/28/clinton-mccain-could-do-more-to-stop-wright-ads/)GRAHAM, North Carolina (CNN) — “I believe that if Sen. McCain were serious he would do more than send a letter. He is the putative nominee,†Clinton told reporters. “I think that he could very clearly tell the North Carolina party, tell the Mississippi party that he would not tolerate those kinds of advertisements and I’m waiting to see whether he does that.â€
Obama has said that questions about his relationship with Wright are a legitimate political issue. Asked if she would engage on it, Clinton seemed to put the issue to bed by responding that she has made it clear that in Obama’s position she wouldn’t have stayed in the church.
“I regret the efforts by the Republicans to politicize this matter,†she added.
Just what the GOP needs... advice from someone who can barely run her own campaign and is coming in second place to an empty suit. ::)
nobody is buying what Hilary is peddling... in fact, a lot of the DUmmies seem to think its the Clinton's who brought about the Wright issues. As for North Carolina and Mississippi, they are free to do as they choose and neither she nor McCain do a thing about it. Apparently, North Carolina's GOP is getting a lot of new money thanks to those ads, so McCain needs to back off.
and Hilary is just trying to make a news cycle since its nothing but Obama and Wright right now.. :-)
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McCain is right, the NC Republican party should stay away from the Rev. Wright issue. The media is doing the job, and if the Republican party jumps on the bandwagon it could backfire and erase the negative. Let the media expose Wright, the Republican party should remain silent on the issue.
Paladin0
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
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Clinton: McCain could do more to stop Wright ads (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/28/clinton-mccain-could-do-more-to-stop-wright-ads/)GRAHAM, North Carolina (CNN) — “I believe that if Sen. McCain were serious he would do more than send a letter. He is the putative nominee,†Clinton told reporters. “I think that he could very clearly tell the North Carolina party, tell the Mississippi party that he would not tolerate those kinds of advertisements and I’m waiting to see whether he does that.â€
Obama has said that questions about his relationship with Wright are a legitimate political issue. Asked if she would engage on it, Clinton seemed to put the issue to bed by responding that she has made it clear that in Obama’s position she wouldn’t have stayed in the church.
“I regret the efforts by the Republicans to politicize this matter,†she added.
Just what the GOP needs... advice from someone who can barely run her own campaign and is coming in second place to an empty suit. ::)
The worst thing McCain could do is politicize this issue. Let the talking heads in the media, liberals, moderate democrats and the two candidates fight it out among themselves. No sense in McCain getting bloodied over this; take the high road and let the circus continue without his involvement.
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Clinton: McCain could do more to stop Wright ads (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/28/clinton-mccain-could-do-more-to-stop-wright-ads/)GRAHAM, North Carolina (CNN) — “I believe that if Sen. McCain were serious he would do more than send a letter. He is the putative nominee,†Clinton told reporters. “I think that he could very clearly tell the North Carolina party, tell the Mississippi party that he would not tolerate those kinds of advertisements and I’m waiting to see whether he does that.â€
Obama has said that questions about his relationship with Wright are a legitimate political issue. Asked if she would engage on it, Clinton seemed to put the issue to bed by responding that she has made it clear that in Obama’s position she wouldn’t have stayed in the church.
“I regret the efforts by the Republicans to politicize this matter,†she added.
Just what the GOP needs... advice from someone who can barely run her own campaign and is coming in second place to an empty suit. ::)
The worst thing McCain could do is politicize this issue. Let the talking heads in the media, liberals, moderate democrats and the two candidates fight it out among themselves. No sense in McCain getting bloodied over this; take the high road and let the circus continue without his involvement.
Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
They have a decent chance of taking back the W.H. IMO. McCain is pretty unappealing to a lot of conservatives. There might be a ground swell of say home-ism come November for many conservatives.
I know many conservatives that have claimed they simply will not vote for a liberal-lite, which McCain seems to be to many.
I myself am unsure if I will vote for him or not.
Some think that the US is due for another revolution; so why not let a true socialist get in office and kick it off?
It's gonna happen sooner or later if world history is any guide line. So why not get it over with.
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
The first rule of being a narcissist or an egomaniac is believing the media loves you even as they are tearing you to shreds. So, I will have to wait and see. If McCain's reaction to the media rending him is to simply throw more Republicans and conservatives under the bus, then there would be very little point in supporting him.
McCain has to acknowledge he is powerless against his addiction to media love.
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
You may be correct about that. Time will tell in the coming months.
<edit to add>
But I also think that there is a growing number of conservatives that are getting damn sick and tired of being forced to pick between the lessor of two evils.
In this current upcoming election; that boils down to voting for a liberal-lite that has proven his willingness to cave into the wishes of the liberals, or to not vote at all.
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
They have a decent chance of taking back the W.H. IMO. McCain is pretty unappealing to a lot of conservatives. There might be a ground swell of say home-ism come November for many conservatives.
I know many conservatives that have claimed they simply will not vote for a liberal-lite, which McCain seems to be to many.
I myself am unsure if I will vote for him or not.
Some think that the US is due for another revolution; so why not let a true socialist get in office and kick it off?
It's gonna happen sooner or later if world history is any guide line. So why not get it over with.
what do you mean by "revolution"? do you mean it in the classical sense, as in the American Revolution?
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
They have a decent chance of taking back the W.H. IMO. McCain is pretty unappealing to a lot of conservatives. There might be a ground swell of say home-ism come November for many conservatives.
I know many conservatives that have claimed they simply will not vote for a liberal-lite, which McCain seems to be to many.
I myself am unsure if I will vote for him or not.
Some think that the US is due for another revolution; so why not let a true socialist get in office and kick it off?
It's gonna happen sooner or later if world history is any guide line. So why not get it over with.
what do you mean by "revolution"? do you mean it in the classical sense, as in the American Revolution?
Something along those lines is what has happened historically. I can see it reaching that boiling point in the not so distance future for the US.
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
I see a huge difference between choosing the (infinitely) lesser of two evils and voting out of "fear". and there just isn't
any way you can seriously compare mccain and hillary/obama. mccain's lifetime ACU rating is 82+. not great, but higher
than, say, thad cochran, from my home state (which I found surprising). hillary has a lifetime ACU rating of 7.71. obama
is 7.67.
I understand being disappointed with mccain. I don't understand how people don't see the obvious difference in their
political philosophies, and how they would govern if elected.
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
They have a decent chance of taking back the W.H. IMO. McCain is pretty unappealing to a lot of conservatives. There might be a ground swell of say home-ism come November for many conservatives.
I know many conservatives that have claimed they simply will not vote for a liberal-lite, which McCain seems to be to many.
I myself am unsure if I will vote for him or not.
Some think that the US is due for another revolution; so why not let a true socialist get in office and kick it off?
It's gonna happen sooner or later if world history is any guide line. So why not get it over with.
what do you mean by "revolution"? do you mean it in the classical sense, as in the American Revolution?
Something along those lines is what has happened historically. I can see it reaching that boiling point in the not so distance future for the US.
do you recall the last time a legitimately elected democratic government was overthrown via armed insurrection?
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
I for one will NOT vote for McCain due to fear of Clinton or Obama.
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
They have a decent chance of taking back the W.H. IMO. McCain is pretty unappealing to a lot of conservatives. There might be a ground swell of say home-ism come November for many conservatives.
I know many conservatives that have claimed they simply will not vote for a liberal-lite, which McCain seems to be to many.
I myself am unsure if I will vote for him or not.
Some think that the US is due for another revolution; so why not let a true socialist get in office and kick it off?
It's gonna happen sooner or later if world history is any guide line. So why not get it over with.
what do you mean by "revolution"? do you mean it in the classical sense, as in the American Revolution?
Something along those lines is what has happened historically. I can see it reaching that boiling point in the not so distance future for the US.
do you recall the last time a legitimately elected democratic government was overthrown via armed insurrection?
No.
Do you?
Iran seems to come to mind for some reason..
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When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.— Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
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Too bad his first instinct was to jump in feet first in a very lame attempt to court media favor.
He's backed off now that his own guys have told him he can't win by angering Republicans but since his first instinct is always, first, second, and always, to be liked by the media, it will probably happen over and over again.
I wonder if there is a chapter of Media Whores Anonymous he could attend?
When the general election rolls around, he will see first hand the contempt they have for him. They are going to smear him to no end because liberals are foaming at the mouth to take back the W.H.
They have a decent chance of taking back the W.H. IMO. McCain is pretty unappealing to a lot of conservatives. There might be a ground swell of say home-ism come November for many conservatives.
I know many conservatives that have claimed they simply will not vote for a liberal-lite, which McCain seems to be to many.
I myself am unsure if I will vote for him or not.
Some think that the US is due for another revolution; so why not let a true socialist get in office and kick it off?
It's gonna happen sooner or later if world history is any guide line. So why not get it over with.
what do you mean by "revolution"? do you mean it in the classical sense, as in the American Revolution?
Something along those lines is what has happened historically. I can see it reaching that boiling point in the not so distance future for the US.
do you recall the last time a legitimately elected democratic government was overthrown via armed insurrection?
No.
Do you?
Iran seems to come to mind for some reason..
it's not totally unheard of, but what you get, historically speaking, as you say, is a military dictatorship. I'm sorta
trying to make a point here.
but popular uprisings against democratically elected governments don't happen because the voting public put
them there in the first place.
I don't understand how a second american revolution is possible when the entire government can be turned out
in the span of a few years. in a very real sense, there is a controlled revolution of sorts every time there is an
election.
I can't even imagine how an american revolution would happen logistically. the whole idea is just, well, bizarre.
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
I for one will NOT vote for McCain due to fear of Clinton or Obama.
but you are perfectly willing to entertain the idea of an armed insurrection against the government of the
united states?
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I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
I for one will NOT vote for McCain due to fear of Clinton or Obama.
but you are perfectly willing to entertain the idea of an armed insurrection against the government of the
united states?
I am perfectly willing to acknowledge the intent of the DOI.
I am also willing to acknowledge that freedom isn't free.
When you celebrate the 4th of July, it's worth pausing for a moment to ask: Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?
Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.
They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.
Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.
At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.
John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year, he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later, he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution.
These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall and straight, unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." They gave you and me a free and independent America. Some of us take these liberties so much for granted. We shouldn't. If you and I don't care about them and take care of them, they could vanish. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July Holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember: Freedom is never free!
-
I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
I for one will NOT vote for McCain due to fear of Clinton or Obama.
but you are perfectly willing to entertain the idea of an armed insurrection against the government of the
united states?
I am perfectly willing to acknowledge the intent of the DOI.
I am also willing to acknowledge that freedom isn't free.
When you celebrate the 4th of July, it's worth pausing for a moment to ask: Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?
Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.
They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.
Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.
At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.
John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year, he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later, he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution.
These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall and straight, unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." They gave you and me a free and independent America. Some of us take these liberties so much for granted. We shouldn't. If you and I don't care about them and take care of them, they could vanish. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July Holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember: Freedom is never free!
you probably should have included the link:
http://www.connecticutsar.org/articles/price_paid.htm (http://www.connecticutsar.org/articles/price_paid.htm)
I'm not sure where you are going here.
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I'm not sure where you are going here.
I am merely speculating about the possibility of civil unrest (revolution) in the next decade or so.
No more, no less.
I think it is more likely to happen than not in that time frame.
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Or this link - http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp
-
I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
I see a huge difference between choosing the (infinitely) lesser of two evils and voting out of "fear". and there just isn't
any way you can seriously compare mccain and hillary/obama. mccain's lifetime ACU rating is 82+. not great, but higher
than, say, thad cochran, from my home state (which I found surprising). hillary has a lifetime ACU rating of 7.71. obama
is 7.67.
I understand being disappointed with mccain. I don't understand how people don't see the obvious difference in their
political philosophies, and how they would govern if elected.
Probably because of things like McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, McCain-Lieberman, the Gang of Fourteen, oh yeah, and every chance he gets he trashes his own base and party. He's already shown he'll govern like a liberal. Oh yeah, closing down GITMO, bringing possible terrorists to U.S. soil, and treating them like regular criminals, clogging up already clogged courts.
There's what he says he's going to do and then there is what he has already done and then there is what he says he is going to do that I am perfectly capable of believing he will do. Compared to his actual actions his ACU rating is only a number. It would mean a little more if he made it mean a little more.
Electing a liberal is infinitely bad. So what's infinity times 2? Times 3? Time Infinity?
What is McCain's political philosophy anyway? I don't actually think he has one. Trashing one's own party isn't a political philosophy as I understand such things.
Most likely he's going to win anyway so why should I vote for him? What reason has McCain given any conservative to vote FOR him. What reason has he given anyone to vote for him? My personal philosophy is to be for something, not to just vote against something. I have no idea what McCain even stands for. Other than John McCain. If I am only voting against something, it is the same as voting out of fear.
I haven't made up my mind yet. But based on where McCain is right now, I can't vote for him. Essentially, he has been saying he doesn't want my vote anyway. So, we, me and John, are working together on this. All three of the very, very, very poor choices we have this year are saying loud and clear "don't vote for me" so I'm thinking of taking them up on it. Maybe it's just social conditioning but I stop on red lights and go on green lights. I don't see any green lights.
-
I don't think that McCain understands southern conservatives. If he keeps pissing them off he will lose the election regardless of how many independents he might pick up.
p.s. Hell, I don't think the man understands real conservatives period.
I think that the thought of Baroque Obama or (God forbid) Hillary in the white house would be enough
to get our base to the polls. conservatives are still disappointed with the nominee, but once the general
starts up, the contrast between mccain and (probably) obama will be much more compelling.
The whole problem with voting for McCain out of fear of Hilary or that other guy is 1) acting out of fear and 2) we could vote for McCain and he could win and be worse than Hilary or that other guy, the guy with the preacher problem.
He promises not to raise taxes but he's going for the whole Global Warming(TM) hoax agenda which will be a pretty bad tax hike.
Other than throwing his own party under the bus for the love of the media spotlight, he has shown he doesn't mind throwing his whole country under the bus in an attempt to get some love from the Mexican press, I guess. He claims he heard us, but why should we believe him?
Anyway, the number one thing for me is to not act out of fear. We ended up with McCain because of an irrational fear of Hilary. So then I should perpetuate that mistake by acting out of fear to vote for someone slightly less bad that Hilary?
300 million people and the best we can come up with is 3 narcissistic prima donas from the Senate? Well, I guess 286 million because 14 million are here illegally, but still that is a lot of people to end up with these three as the best choices.
I see a huge difference between choosing the (infinitely) lesser of two evils and voting out of "fear". and there just isn't
any way you can seriously compare mccain and hillary/obama. mccain's lifetime ACU rating is 82+. not great, but higher
than, say, thad cochran, from my home state (which I found surprising). hillary has a lifetime ACU rating of 7.71. obama
is 7.67.
I understand being disappointed with mccain. I don't understand how people don't see the obvious difference in their
political philosophies, and how they would govern if elected.
Probably because of things like McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, McCain-Lieberman, the Gang of Fourteen, oh yeah, and every chance he gets he trashes his own base and party. He's already shown he'll govern like a liberal. Oh yeah, closing down GITMO, bringing possible terrorists to U.S. soil, and treating them like regular criminals, clogging up already clogged courts.
There's what he says he's going to do and then there is what he has already done and then there is what he says he is going to do that I am perfectly capable of believing he will do. Compared to his actual actions his ACU rating is only a number. It would mean a little more if he made it mean a little more.
Electing a liberal is infinitely bad. So what's infinity times 2? Times 3? Time Infinity?
What is McCain's political philosophy anyway? I don't actually think he has one. Trashing one's own party isn't a political philosophy as I understand such things.
Most likely he's going to win anyway so why should I vote for him? What reason has McCain given any conservative to vote FOR him. What reason has he given anyone to vote for him? My personal philosophy is to be for something, not to just vote against something. I have no idea what McCain even stands for. Other than John McCain. If I am only voting against something, it is the same as voting out of fear.
I haven't made up my mind yet. But based on where McCain is right now, I can't vote for him. Essentially, he has been saying he doesn't want my vote anyway. So, we, me and John, are working together on this. All three of the very, very, very poor choices we have this year are saying loud and clear "don't vote for me" so I'm thinking of taking them up on it. Maybe it's just social conditioning but I stop on red lights and go on green lights. I don't see any green lights.
great. then entrust the custodianship of the entire country to obama. I hope you can sleep at night.
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great. then entrust the custodianship of the entire country to obama. I hope you can sleep at night.
Whoever wins or loses can't be blamed on one voter, I know you know that. I think all 3 of the remaining possibilities are train-wrecks, McCain being ever so slightly less of one. But when he tells me that NC Republicans are out of touch, now he's getting personal. I'm not one to get mad quickly, but when I heard him say that my blood-pressure shot up about a million points. What. A. Complete. Jerk. And I'm being nice about it. I can tell you at this point I'm not inclined to vote for him come November. I definately won't vote for him this Tuesday. I have no idea who's left on the NC Republican ballot for prez nominee, but neither McCain or Dr. Nutz will get mine.
.
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great. then entrust the custodianship of the entire country to obama. I hope you can sleep at night.
Whoever wins or loses can't be blamed on one voter, I know you know that. I think all 3 of the remaining possibilities are train-wrecks, McCain being ever so slightly less of one. But when he tells me that NC Republicans are out of touch, now he's getting personal. I'm not one to get mad quickly, but when I heard him say that my blood-pressure shot up about a million points. What. A. Complete. Jerk. And I'm being nice about it. I can tell you at this point I'm not inclined to vote for him come November. I definately won't vote for him this Tuesday. I have no idea who's left on the NC Republican ballot for prez nominee, but neither McCain or Dr. Nutz will get mine.
if another 200 people in florida thought like you did in 2000, we would be finishing president gore's second term in a few months.
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if another 200 people in florida thought like you did in 2000, we would be finishing president gore's second term in a few months.
And if Bush had insulted what he claims to be his base in the same way McCain has done, I wouldn't blame them.
The guy was already in the gray area with a lot of conservatives like me anyway. Saying what he said did not help endear himself to me. In fact, if that was all he had to say, he should have just kept his mouth shut, or at least just said that he had talked to the NC Republicans and asked them not to run the ad because it wasn't in keeping with the tone of the campaign he wanted to run. Had he just said that, then I would have just considered him to be the political wimp I knew he was anyway. Instead, he has to add the words "they're out of touch." So now, on top of being a political wimp, he insults me. Dumb on his part.
.
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if another 200 people in florida thought like you did in 2000, we would be finishing president gore's second term in a few months.
And if Bush had insulted what he claims to be his base in the same way McCain has done, I wouldn't blame them.
They guy was already in the gray area with a lot of conservatives like me anyway. Saying what he said did not help endear himself to me. In fact, if that was all he had to say, he should have just kept his mouth shut, or at least just said that he had talked to the NC Republicans and asked them not to run the ad because it wasn't in keeping with the tone of the campaign he wanted to run. Had he just said that, then I would have just considered him to be the political wimp I knew he was anyway. Instead, he has to add the words "they're out of touch." So now, on top of being a political wimp, he insults me. Dumb on his part.
.
I find myself defending mccain more and more these days. and I don't like him any more than you do. :wink:
I am trying to see the big picture, though. it's very difficult most days, but I can find plenty of great reasons to
vote for john mccain besides the fact that he isn't baroque obama.
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I feel the same way. He's not my ideal candidate but he's a heck of a lot closer than the opposition. I think we all need to look back at just the last four years and ask ourselves how many times Bush has done or said something we didn't agree with. I promise you, most conservatives can recall something they didn't like. It will be the same regardless of whoever is the GOP nominee.
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I find myself defending mccain more and more these days. and I don't like him any more than you do. :wink:
I am trying to see the big picture, though. it's very difficult most days, but I can find plenty of great reasons to
vote for john mccain besides the fact that he isn't baroque obama.
When November rolls around, it may be different. But on this date looking forward, if NC is close I'd likely vote for McCain. If it's clearly one way or the other, I probably won't vote for president at all.
.
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I feel the same way. He's not my ideal candidate but he's a heck of a lot closer than the opposition. I think we all need to look back at just the last four years and ask ourselves how many times Bush has done or said something we didn't agree with. I promise you, most conservatives can recall something they didn't like. It will be the same regardless of whoever is the GOP nominee.
in a lot of ways, GWB had his presidency abducted by 9/11. he ran as a strong social conservative (who spoke out repeatedly against "nation-building, by the way) during what appeared to be a time of peace and prosperity. and then september happened.
I am willing to cut him infinite slack for whatever he has screwed up since then. the man knows right from wrong, and he is decisive. I can't imagine where we would be if al gore had won in 2000. it truly rattles me to think about it.
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I find myself defending mccain more and more these days. and I don't like him any more than you do. :wink:
I am trying to see the big picture, though. it's very difficult most days, but I can find plenty of great reasons to
vote for john mccain besides the fact that he isn't baroque obama.
When November rolls around, it may be different. But on this date looking forward, if NC is close I'd likely vote for McCain. If it's clearly one way or the other, I probably won't vote for president at all.
.
I feel like I say this in the election forum 10 times a week, but I am sure that once the dems have a nominee, and we have
an opportunity to make a direct comparison, the choice will become clear for conservatives.
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I feel the same way. He's not my ideal candidate but he's a heck of a lot closer than the opposition. I think we all need to look back at just the last four years and ask ourselves how many times Bush has done or said something we didn't agree with. I promise you, most conservatives can recall something they didn't like. It will be the same regardless of whoever is the GOP nominee.
in a lot of ways, GWB had his presidency abducted by 9/11. he ran as a strong social conservative (who spoke out repeatedly against "nation-building, by the way) during what appeared to be a time of peace and prosperity. and then September happened.
I am willing to cut him infinite slack for whatever he has screwed up since then. the man knows right from wrong, and he is decisive. I can't imagine where we would be if al gore had won in 2000. it truly rattles me to think about it.
I too have cut him slack. You HAVE to look at 9/11 and what followed. When he won the election, I saw his Inauguration and thought, "okay, here's decent man who was decent as my Governor, I guess things will be fine as long as Congress doesn't fight him too hard" - and then Sept 11 happened. It changed everything. I don't even know if I can articulate how it dramatically it changed my perceptions and beliefs.
Bush is a conviction president. He's never paid attention to the polls. I've always admired that even when I haven't agreed.
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I feel the same way. He's not my ideal candidate but he's a heck of a lot closer than the opposition. I think we all need to look back at just the last four years and ask ourselves how many times Bush has done or said something we didn't agree with. I promise you, most conservatives can recall something they didn't like. It will be the same regardless of whoever is the GOP nominee.
I agree to an extent.....going into 2000 Bush was an unknown in national politics, coming from Govenorship of a conservative state. He looked great when compared to slick willy.....however, McCain's positions on issues important to conservatives are well known, and looked upon with distain by most thinking conservatives. Therefore I find myself in the same position as USA, I may take an industrial size barf bag with me to the polls in November, or, I might stay home or vote for the "Constitution Party", et. al.
It is really tough to vote for someone that has made it patently clear on many issues that he just doesn't give a damn what I consider important, and doesn't really care whether we vote for him or not.......and for those of you that will make the counter that a mcCain vote is for the good of the party, it is that same party that is completely responsible for McCain's candidacy to begin with......he should never have been allowed to run in the first place as a Republican.......
We conservatives are the first to loudly proclaim that politicians on our side need to take principled positions on key issues, and stick to our guns......and the party is now asking us to forget our "principles", and vote for a limp-wristed RINO that essentially stands for nothing when the chips are down....I'm not sure that I can do that.....
doc
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I feel the same way. He's not my ideal candidate but he's a heck of a lot closer than the opposition. I think we all need to look back at just the last four years and ask ourselves how many times Bush has done or said something we didn't agree with. I promise you, most conservatives can recall something they didn't like. It will be the same regardless of whoever is the GOP nominee.
in a lot of ways, GWB had his presidency abducted by 9/11. he ran as a strong social conservative (who spoke out repeatedly against "nation-building, by the way) during what appeared to be a time of peace and prosperity. and then September happened.
I am willing to cut him infinite slack for whatever he has screwed up since then. the man knows right from wrong, and he is decisive. I can't imagine where we would be if al gore had won in 2000. it truly rattles me to think about it.
I too have cut him slack. You HAVE to look at 9/11 and what followed. When he won the election, I saw his Inauguration and thought, "okay, here's decent man who was decent as my Governor, I guess things will be fine as long as Congress doesn't fight him too hard" - and then Sept 11 happened. It changed everything. I don't even know if I can articulate how it dramatically it changed my perceptions and beliefs.
Bush is a conviction president. He's never paid attention to the polls. I've always admired that even when I haven't agreed.
you've hit upon something that I have always thought was significant; he is supremely confident in his judgment. I think that is part of what drives the DUmmies so insane; he flatly doesn't NOT second guess himself.
I can't decide if that is mostly because of his strong faith, his MBA, or just because he's a damn texan. :wink: :-)
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I feel the same way. He's not my ideal candidate but he's a heck of a lot closer than the opposition. I think we all need to look back at just the last four years and ask ourselves how many times Bush has done or said something we didn't agree with. I promise you, most conservatives can recall something they didn't like. It will be the same regardless of whoever is the GOP nominee.
I agree to an extent.....going into 2000 Bush was an unknown in national politics, coming from Govenorship of a conservative state. He looked great when compared to slick willy.....however, McCain's positions on issues important to conservatives are well known, and looked upon with distain by most thinking conservatives. Therefore I find myself in the same position as USA, I may take an industrial size barf bag with me to the polls in November, or, I might stay home or vote for the "Constitution Party", et. al.
It is really tough to vote for someone that has made it patently clear on many issues that he just doesn't give a damn what I consider important, and doesn't really care whether we vote for him or not.......and for those of you that will make the counter that a mcCain vote is for the good of the party, it is that same party that is completely responsible for McCain's candidacy to begin with......he should never have been allowed to run in the first place as a Republican.......
We conservatives are the first to loudly proclaim that politicians on our side need to take principled positions on key issues, and stick to our guns......and the party is now asking us to forget our "principles", and vote for a limp-wristed RINO that essentially stands for nothing when the chips are down....I'm not sure that I can do that.....
doc
I'm not sure that you speak for all "thinking conservatives", first of all. and quite frankly, I am running out of patience for this line of reasoning. when president obama nationalizes what left of the private health care industry, confiscates your income, and strips the defenses of this country, I don't want to hear any bitching out of the people that stayed home on election day.
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I'm not sure that you speak for all "thinking conservatives", first of all. and quite frankly, I am running out of patience for this line of reasoning. when president obama nationalizes what left of the private health care industry, confiscates your income, and strips the defenses of this country, I don't want to hear any bitching out of the people that stayed home on election day.
As I have stated more than once, I've seen presidents come and go, and have managed to minimize the impact of hundreds of bad decisions made by politicians of both parties......I don't bitch, I compensate.....and so far have managed to do OK for myself and my family. I certainly am not threatened by a president Obama, or another Clinton......if that is what the voters want.......we will compensate and survive.
However, when it comes to my vote, and the personal integrity that it represents to me, I find it difficult to grant that great priviledge to an individual that obviously views me with distain......no one is asking you to defend McCain....he is a big boy, and is perfectly capable of making a political loser out of himself without anyone else's assistance......
doc
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I'm not sure that you speak for all "thinking conservatives", first of all. and quite frankly, I am running out of patience for this line of reasoning. when president obama nationalizes what left of the private health care industry, confiscates your income, and strips the defenses of this country, I don't want to hear any bitching out of the people that stayed home on election day.
As I have stated more than once, I've seen presidents come and go, and have managed to minimize the impact of hundreds of bad decisions made by politicians of both parties......I don't bitch, I compensate.....and so far have managed to do OK for myself and my family. I certainly am not threatened by a president Obama, or another Clinton......if that is what the voters want.......we will compensate and survive.
However, when it comes to my vote, and the personal integrity that it represents to me, I find it difficult to grant that great priviledge to an individual that obviously views me with distain......no one is asking you to defend McCain....he is a big boy, and is perfectly capable of making a political loser out of himself without anyone else's assistance......
doc
well, I am coming off much more caustically than I intend to. or so I was just informed. :wink:
but I think I may have uncovered where our viewpoints diverge. it's about more than individuals. in fact, I don't really see (or perhaps I just don't want to see) the federal government as an important element in my life. it's about first principles and character. in fact, "character", according to our founders, is the most important requirement for the job.
the choice couldn't be more compelling in this election cycle.
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well, I am coming off much more caustically than I intend to. or so I was just informed. :wink:
but I think I may have uncovered where our viewpoints diverge. it's about more than individuals. in fact, I don't really see (or perhaps I just don't want to see) the federal government as an important element in my life. it's about first principles and character. in fact, "character", according to our founders, is the most important requirement for the job.
the choice couldn't be more compelling in this election cycle.
I think we are really in agreement, at least conceptually, I (we) too, have always viewed the federal government as more of an obstacle to be "worked around" than an overall benefit in our personal lives.
I won't argue that McCain is a man of character, and that the founders placed that above all attributes in a public servant, it is his "principles" that I take issue with, and that, IMHO comes in a close second.
Overall, I have unflagging faith in our constitutional concept of "balance of powers", in that regardless of who sits in the White House, they will be unable to take the nation off on any great tangents in either direction. Perhaps the best example of all is FDR, whose "New Deal" is blamed by pundits for launching the country on the road to a "welfare state". For all that he attempted, he failed, compromised, or diluted most of those efforts, and the ones that he accomplished were no where near as onerous as one might imagine if you actually look at what was initially proposed.....and he had FOUR TERMS to try to get it done.......
I guess that it just chaps my ass that the Republican party can't come up with a better candidate than we are stuck with.....the talent is certainly out there....
doc
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^Agree about the character component. I also believe that while it's hard for a president to turn this nation on it's head in a single term (hold the snark please :-) ) we must look ahead to the years after this term, SCOTUS, etc...your comment earlier about imagining a Gore administration rightfully gave you chills. Everyone should go stand in front of a mirror and say, "President Obama (or President Clinton) today......." and see how it feels. Now, a lot of people are going to say well the govt isn't really that influential in my life (like you did) and there is truth to that. Again, it's pretty hard to turn the nation on a dime - look at Pelosi's mandate for change in 06 (giggle) she's been frustrated and outmaneuvered at almost every turn but yet has still managed to cause havoc. Another thing to consider is that we are a nation at war. I prefer Commander in Chief McCain to any other option at this point.
I am disappointed in the Republican party. I also expected more. But I think we've gotten accustomed to our standards of living. It's going to have to be painful before it gets better. I just hope that pain is caused by President McCain (who can be dealt with) and not a President Obama (shudder!) or Clinton II (shudders twice).
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^It's hard for me to rationalize one of the criteria for selection of the next president as "wartime" or not, as I feel that the war in Iraq is essentially won, and the next president would have to do something really stupid to turn it into a loss, which would ultimately be a disaster for that president's political party. Therefore regardless of who wins in November, the troops and the mission will remain until the job is completed.
As far as SCOTUS Justices are concerned, I can only look at the downside......it would be great if a president McCain were to appoint another Scalia to the court, but based on his history in the Senate on judicial issues, I maintain that there is absolutely no guarantee that he will do so......he is just as likely to appoint some "independent thinker" like himself who will morf into another Stevens or Kennedy on the bench. Further, the justices who are lining up for retirement are basically all liberals, so if a democrat ends up in the white house, the court will at worst, remain ideologically much the same as it is.....
As history has taught, events have made great men out of "wimps" in the past, and again FDR and Pearl Harbor is a great example. People elected to that office have a habit of "stepping up" to greatness whenever challenged by outside forces, more often than not......
doc
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I was speaking in terms of the larger war on terror, not just Iraq and Afghanistan. And yes, I do agree with your assessment on Iraq. But I don't trust either Dem candidate on the GWoT.
I'm not as optimistic about SCOTUS with a Dem in the White House. And McCain is no guarantee either. But I like my chances with him better than the other too fruitloops.
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I was speaking in terms of the larger war on terror, not just Iraq and Afghanistan. And yes, I do agree with your assessment on Iraq. But I don't trust either Dem candidate on the GWoT.
I'm not as optimistic about SCOTUS with a Dem in the White House. And McCain is no guarantee either. But I like my chances with him better than the other too fruitloops.
Well....on the general WoT, if McCain wins, likely nothing will change....if the Dems win, they have a choice.....either continue to press forward, regardless of their campaign promises (remember, this is the same party that promised to bring down gas prices in 2006), or they can retreat to our borders, and risk another attack......which (God forbid) if it happens, will guarantee that they go back to minority status for another generation, depending on how bad the attack is.......They are in a really tough spot politically on this issue....
Never underestimate the stupidity of the electorate.......remember the Brits threw Churchill out after WW-II was won.......
There is always an ebb and flow to these things, and one must, as stated aptly by an ancient Chinese warlord, "bend like a reed in the wind....."
doc
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great. then entrust the custodianship of the entire country to obama. I hope you can sleep at night.
The two most common ways that we are continually manipulated to get us to do what others want us to do is fear and guilt.
I've already rejected fear and I now reject guilt.
If I voted for McCain and Hilary or Obama ended up winning, then what? I would have more trouble sleeping knowing I had voted against myself than rejecting this thin pretense.
Worse still, what if I voted for McCain, feeling as I do now about him, and he won. I should have many more sleepless nights.
McCain's job is to win my vote and he is doing a very poor job of it at this point. It isn't my work to support someone simply because they aren't Hilary or Obama. My job is to vote for the candidate I am for and right now, in this snapshot of time, I am not for any of these. If McCain wants my vote, let him win it. That is what candidates are supposed to do.
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great. then entrust the custodianship of the entire country to obama. I hope you can sleep at night.
The two most common ways that we are continually manipulated to get us to do what others want us to do is fear and guilt.
I've already rejected fear and I now reject guilt.
If I voted for McCain and Hilary or Obama ended up winning, then what? I would have more trouble sleeping knowing I had voted against myself than rejecting this thin pretense.
Worse still, what if I voted for McCain, feeling as I do now about him, and he won. I should have many more sleepless nights.
McCain's job is to win my vote and he is doing a very poor job of it at this point. It isn't my work to support someone simply because they aren't Hilary or Obama. My job is to vote for the candidate I am for and right now, in this snapshot of time, I am not for any of these. If McCain wants my vote, let him win it. That is what candidates are supposed to do.
Your analysis is poor. If hussein or mrs, clinton win because you sat out then it is at your feet. The socialism to ensue is your fault.
Te perfect is the enemy of the good.
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I'm not sure that you speak for all "thinking conservatives", first of all. and quite frankly, I am running out of patience for this line of reasoning. when president obama nationalizes what left of the private health care industry, confiscates your income, and strips the defenses of this country, I don't want to hear any bitching out of the people that stayed home on election day.
As I have stated more than once, I've seen presidents come and go, and have managed to minimize the impact of hundreds of bad decisions made by politicians of both parties......I don't bitch, I compensate.....and so far have managed to do OK for myself and my family. I certainly am not threatened by a president Obama, or another Clinton......if that is what the voters want.......we will compensate and survive.
However, when it comes to my vote, and the personal integrity that it represents to me, I find it difficult to grant that great priviledge to an individual that obviously views me with distain......no one is asking you to defend McCain....he is a big boy, and is perfectly capable of making a political loser out of himself without anyone else's assistance......
doc
well, I am coming off much more caustically than I intend to. or so I was just informed. :wink:
but I think I may have uncovered where our viewpoints diverge. it's about more than individuals. in fact, I don't really see (or perhaps I just don't want to see) the federal government as an important element in my life. it's about first principles and character. in fact, "character", according to our founders, is the most important requirement for the job.
the choice couldn't be more compelling in this election cycle.
I think you see what I am trying to say, it is not in my character to vote for someone who I don't think as in the best interest of my country even if that person is marginally less bad than the other choices. If I vote against my character, that is when I would do the real harm to myself and the country. That is when I would feel guilt.
If I betray myself, I can betray anybody.
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great. then entrust the custodianship of the entire country to obama. I hope you can sleep at night.
The two most common ways that we are continually manipulated to get us to do what others want us to do is fear and guilt.
I've already rejected fear and I now reject guilt.
If I voted for McCain and Hilary or Obama ended up winning, then what? I would have more trouble sleeping knowing I had voted against myself than rejecting this thin pretense.
Worse still, what if I voted for McCain, feeling as I do now about him, and he won. I should have many more sleepless nights.
McCain's job is to win my vote and he is doing a very poor job of it at this point. It isn't my work to support someone simply because they aren't Hilary or Obama. My job is to vote for the candidate I am for and right now, in this snapshot of time, I am not for any of these. If McCain wants my vote, let him win it. That is what candidates are supposed to do.
Your analysis is poor. If hussein or mrs, clinton win because you sat out then it is at your feet. The socialism to ensue is your fault.
Te perfect is the enemy of the good.
My analysis is good. Trying to manipulate opinion via guilt is what is poor.
If McCain loses it is McCain's fault. What reason has he given anyone to vote for him? That is how it is supposed to work. They are supposed to stand for something. What does McCain stand for?
In this case, the perfect never gets a chance to be the enemy of the good. Which one is the good? I see marginal. Maybe you mean the good is the enemy of the marginal and I don't have a problem with that.
If I vote for marginal, I will only have more marginal to vote for. Marginal will be mistaken for demand and there is never a short supply.
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The right to vote also includes the right NOT to vote. It bothers me to think that so many people are considering that option. I get the concept - it's basically political tough love. I just shudder at the thought of what may come down the road. It takes a big person to knowingly withhold their vote when the opposition is so scary. Let's hope this conversation is all academic in a few weeks and that McCain truly does try to win over the real conservative base.
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I'm not sure that you speak for all "thinking conservatives", first of all. and quite frankly, I am running out of patience for this line of reasoning. when president obama nationalizes what left of the private health care industry, confiscates your income, and strips the defenses of this country, I don't want to hear any bitching out of the people that stayed home on election day.
As I have stated more than once, I've seen presidents come and go, and have managed to minimize the impact of hundreds of bad decisions made by politicians of both parties......I don't bitch, I compensate.....and so far have managed to do OK for myself and my family. I certainly am not threatened by a president Obama, or another Clinton......if that is what the voters want.......we will compensate and survive.
However, when it comes to my vote, and the personal integrity that it represents to me, I find it difficult to grant that great priviledge to an individual that obviously views me with distain......no one is asking you to defend McCain....he is a big boy, and is perfectly capable of making a political loser out of himself without anyone else's assistance......
doc
AMEN Doc. Well said. I prefer to vote for a candidate that I can actually support vs. voting for one that I merely dislike less than the others.
I voted for GW Bush both times. I did so because he was a candidate that I felt I could honestly support. It had nothing to do with my dislike of Gore or Kerry. Has Bush doen a few things I have disliked? Yes. Especially in his 2nd term.
After 9/11 happened on his watch I'd think he would have been more inclined to take our border security much more seriously, but now that we are hearing more and more about the North American Union and he seems to be on board with it..... (I haven't heard him speaking against it at any rate)
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The right to vote also includes the right NOT to vote. It bothers me to think that so many people are considering that option. I get the concept - it's basically political tough love. I just shudder at the thought of what may come down the road. It takes a big person to knowingly withhold their vote when the opposition is so scary. Let's hope this conversation is all academic in a few weeks and that McCain truly does try to win over the real conservative base.
I don't have the actual numbers handy at the moment, but I have seen reports that indicate that a large percentage of the eligible voters don't bother to even register, much less actually vote. I personally think it is more a matter of political apathy than political tough love.
My own parents don't vote as they think just about all politicians are liars and professional snake oil salesmen. They have seen their share of them come and go and are speaking from their own personal experinces.
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I think voter participation is somewhere between 38-50% percent. I don't have a source for that, but that seems to be what I hear anecdotally during every election season when the talking heads start doing their election "analysis". I remember seeing some European country with 60% turnout referred to as a high turnout.
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Trying to manipulate opinion via guilt is what is poor.
I agree. This guilt trip stuff is for the birds.
There are those here who dislike McCain but will vote for him anyway because "he's the best of the worst." I can understand and respect that motivation. There are those who won't vote for McCain at all because of how he's conducted himself in the past. I also understand and respect that motivation. I'm fully convinced that all the various sides see and understand the motives behind what others are saying. I'm also fully convinced both sides have carefully weighed whatever decision they have made, it wasn't just made on a whim. But at the end of the day, we all have to make our own choices, and I don't see how pointing fingers and making accusations towards one another is going to change things or make it any better, it's only going to create unnecessary strife.
Someone tells me they're holding their nose and voting McCain, then fine, they gotta do what they gotta do. Someone tells me McCain has done too much wrong to ever get their support, then fine, they gotta do what they gotta do. I'm not going to get down on any fellow conservative doing what they believe they should or shouldn't do on this matter. This is a political board, we all have friends here that we differ with on this whole issue, but let's not let it create divisions over what we individually have decided we can and cannot do regarding all this. To me, that would be the real tragedy.
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do you recall the last time a legitimately elected democratic government was overthrown via armed insurrection?
Sorry if I butt in. There have been legitimately elected democratic governments overthrown by armed insurrections, but they occurred outside of America.
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I tend to think that Rev. Wright is trying to actually hurt Obama's chance at the Presidency because he wants to show that America is a "racist" nation and wants a riot. Rev. Wright is nutcase times 1,000,000. Anyways, I don't think McCain should interfere with what NC is doing for their political ads because that would be an interference of the First Amendment. Yes, he does have the right to criticize, but also they have the right to air it.
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I'm not sure that you speak for all "thinking conservatives", first of all. and quite frankly, I am running out of patience for this line of reasoning. when president obama nationalizes what left of the private health care industry, confiscates your income, and strips the defenses of this country, I don't want to hear any bitching out of the people that stayed home on election day.
As I have stated more than once, I've seen presidents come and go, and have managed to minimize the impact of hundreds of bad decisions made by politicians of both parties......I don't bitch, I compensate.....and so far have managed to do OK for myself and my family. I certainly am not threatened by a president Obama, or another Clinton......if that is what the voters want.......we will compensate and survive.
However, when it comes to my vote, and the personal integrity that it represents to me, I find it difficult to grant that great priviledge to an individual that obviously views me with distain......no one is asking you to defend McCain....he is a big boy, and is perfectly capable of making a political loser out of himself without anyone else's assistance......
doc
AMEN Doc. Well said. I prefer to vote for a candidate that I can actually support vs. voting for one that I merely dislike less than the others.
I voted for GW Bush both times. I did so because he was a candidate that I felt I could honestly support. It had nothing to do with my dislike of Gore or Kerry. Has Bush doen a few things I have disliked? Yes. Especially in his 2nd term.
After 9/11 happened on his watch I'd think he would have been more inclined to take our border security much more seriously, but now that we are hearing more and more about the North American Union and he seems to be on board with it..... (I haven't heard him speaking against it at any rate)
I would think most conservatives would want to take into consideration of what's best for the country rather than their own personal likes or dislikes of a candidate. I am going to vote for McCain not because I like him but because he will implement policies of following importance:
1. National security, war on terror, military spending, etc. It has been 7 years since 9/11. I am amazed we have not been attacked agin. The Prez and intelligence agencies have done a great job. All of that could change if a Democrat is elected Prez. Lest not forget the disdain that Carter, Gore, Kerry, Clinton had for the military, CIA, FBI, etc. Not only that they slashed the hell out their budgets. Don't know about anybody else, but life and death is my #1 issue along with my fellow Americans. It kinda makes the rest of the issues like guns, Gitzo, abortion, etc meaningless.
2. Taxes-McCain is for lowering your taxes and Obama is for raising them. Does not take a rocket scientist to figure out with all the added and increased social programs that your taxes are going up by leaps and bounds. The Democrats will implement higher gasoline taxes, higher social security taxes, higher capital gains taxes, higher income taxes, etc.
3. Socialized Meds--Obama will give you EU/Canadian style health care. McCain will not.
4. If Obama wins the Presidency, he will in all probably sweep in a 60 plus majority in the Senate. If that happens, there is nothing that Repubs can do to stop any legislation from becoming law. If you know beans about the 3 branches of government, that will be a DISASTER.
I am voting against my self interest by pulling the lever for McCain. Obama says he is not going to tax Social Security and will repeal WEP that affects civil service workers who get a pension from both. However, my benefits are cut in half. So you see if Obama gets in there, I will have enough dough to go buy that new Corvette. I could care less about the price of gasoline cause I only drive about 5k miles a year. With all that newfound income, I will be shitting in high cotton. But no, I am going to hold my nose and go vote for McCain because HE IS THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THIS COUNTRY.