Democrat Leaders Played to Lose (on the bailout bill)

[Wretched Excess]

clyburn was on the morning joe show this morning, laying 100% of the blame for the failure of
the bailout bill at the feet of the republicans.  how in the world you can blame the minority for
the failure of a vote in the house is beyond me, but it's beginning to look like we got had on this
one.

Democrat Leaders Played to Lose

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi ordered her Majority Whip, Jim Clyburn, to essentially not do his job in the runup to the vote on Monday for the negotiated Wall Street bailout plan, according to House Democrat leadership aides.

"Clyburn was not whipping the votes you would have expected him to, in part because he was uncomfortable doing it, in part because we didn't want the push for votes to be successful," says one leadership aide. "All we needed was enough to potentially get us over the finish line, but we wanted the Republicans to be the ones to do it. This was not going to be a Democrat-passed bill if the Speaker had anything to say about it."

During the floor vote, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and House Democrat Conference chair Rahm Emanuel could be seen monitoring the vote on the floor, and gauging whether or not more Democrat votes were needed. Clyburn had expressed concerns, says the leadership aide, of being asked to press members of the Black and Hispanic caucuses on a bill he was certain those constituencies would not want passed.

"It worked out, because we didn't have a dog in this fight. We negotiated. We gave the White House a bill. It was up to the Republicans to get the 100 plus votes they needed and they couldn't do it," said another Democrat leadership aide.

Emanuel, who served as a board member for Freddie Mac, one of the agencies that precipitated the economic crisis the nation now finds itself in, had no misgivings about taking a leadership role in tanking the bill. "He was cheerleading us along, mothering the votes," says the aide. "We wanted enough to put the pressure on the Republicans and Congressman Emanuel was charged with making it close enough. He did a great job."

More

[Splashdown]

A Dem from my district who voted FOR the plan said calls to his office were running about 200-1 AGAINST the bill.

Repubs need to get out and explain WHY they voted against this thing.

[Wretched Excess]

A Dem from my district who voted FOR the plan said calls to his office were running about 200-1 AGAINST the bill.

Repubs need to get out and explain WHY they voted against this thing.

it has been presented as a "wall street bailout bill" from the get-go.  I'm not sure people fully understand what this could do to the consumer credit market if something isn't done.

lawrence o'donnell, who I am convinced is mentally unbalanced, tried to draw a distinction between people who are motivated by "right wing radio" to oppose the bailout, and "normal" people who are in favor. 

 

[Wretched Excess]

oh, clyburn also said that he could deliver the black caucus to support a bailout bill if it had the bankruptcy provisions in it.

joe scarborough also pointed out that republicans were attempting to put forth a motion to recommit, which would have allowed them to go twist 10 arms to change their vote and get the bill passed, when barney fwank called for the vote to be closed.  you couldn't see who called for "general order" (I believe it was called), but his fwank's weawy paw speech impediment was unmistakable.

[Hawkgirl]

A Dem from my district who voted FOR the plan said calls to his office were running about 200-1 AGAINST the bill.

Repubs need to get out and explain WHY they voted against this thing.

it has been presented as a "wall street bailout bill" from the get-go.  I'm not sure people fully understand what this could do to the consumer credit market if something isn't done.
 

 

People who have no right getting a loan won't be?  People who have good credit and have down payments will continue to get loans.  NO money down and fancy mortgages and credit deals are gone.
Back to the basics, as it should be.

[Wretched Excess]

A Dem from my district who voted FOR the plan said calls to his office were running about 200-1 AGAINST the bill.

Repubs need to get out and explain WHY they voted against this thing.

it has been presented as a "wall street bailout bill" from the get-go.  I'm not sure people fully understand what this could do to the consumer credit market if something isn't done.
 

 

People who have no right getting a loan won't be?  People who have good credit and have down payments will continue to get loans.  NO money down and fancy mortgages and credit deals are gone.
Back to the basics, as it should be.

maybe.  maybe not.

this could extend to all of the consumer credit market, not just mortgages.  cars, credit cards, you name it.  it's hard to pick the fact out from all of the static in the air right now, but it's as likely as not that the people who are defaulting on their mortgage are in the process of defaulting on everything else.

[Hawkgirl]

A Dem from my district who voted FOR the plan said calls to his office were running about 200-1 AGAINST the bill.

Repubs need to get out and explain WHY they voted against this thing.

it has been presented as a "wall street bailout bill" from the get-go.  I'm not sure people fully understand what this could do to the consumer credit market if something isn't done.
 

 

People who have no right getting a loan won't be?  People who have good credit and have down payments will continue to get loans.  NO money down and fancy mortgages and credit deals are gone.
Back to the basics, as it should be.

maybe.  maybe not.

this could extend to all of the consumer credit market, not just mortgages.  cars, credit cards, you name it.  it's hard to pick the fact out from all of the static in the air right now, but it's as likely as not that the people who are defaulting on their mortgage are in the process of defaulting on everything else.

People who are defaulting on their mortgages are likely the same people who were approved for a mortgage with NO money down.  So if they lose their home, they had no real investment to begin with.  Living "in their own home" in which the bank owned close to 100% would be equivalent to living in a rental property.  I have a MINIMUM of 20% down and up to 40% down on my homes.  I'm no where close to a foreclosure.  People who bought a home responsible, like me, and there are LOTS of us have no business bailing out people who bought homes with no initial investment.
I feel the same about people starting businesses or buying cars with no initial investment.

This is how I was taught in life by my parents, responsible enough to teach me to do things the RIGHT way and don't bite off more than you can chew.

At first I had mixed feelings about this bailout...now I'm a staunch opponent to it..for the reasons I illustrated above.

[Hawkgirl]

And let me add...McCain is actually IN AGREEMENT with Obama on this...Right there, it should tell you how wrong this is.

McCain and Bush just lost points with me, big time....

[Splashdown]

maybe.  maybe not.

this could extend to all of the consumer credit market, not just mortgages.  cars, credit cards, you name it.  it's hard to pick the fact out from all of the static in the air right now, but it's as likely as not that the people who are defaulting on their mortgage are in the process of defaulting on everything else.

Are you saying it is our responsibility to prop up people who are too stupid to live within their means?

I'm really torn here, by the way. In principle, I hate this. We work very hard to pay stuff on time. We do without to save.

But I also realize that small businesses need loans and lines of credit to stay liquid, and to keep people employed.

[Peter3_1]

The credit market is WIDE OPEN , if you are financially responsible. My son , Friday, called ijn the fact that he was going to buy a car to the dealer, drove in, signd the papers, borrowed some money, drove off with a new car. All within 3 hours.

All week mortgage companies have been calling trying to get me to move my mortgage to them. All tyou need is the money anf you're their pal and they can't wait to loan the money.

Why does anyone believe the consumate BS artists who have caused this problem in the first place?

[DumbAss Tanker]

clyburn was on the morning joe show this morning, laying 100% of the blame for the failure of
the bailout bill at the feet of the republicans.  how in the world you can blame the minority for
the failure of a vote in the house is beyond me, but it's beginning to look like we got had on this
one.

I don't really agree with the 'We got had' part, at least not yet.  The press was massively behind the whole thing and an organ of the DNC in the first place, so they are willingly blaming the Republicans for the failure and playing up the 'It's all the GOP's fault!' angle this morning, however the whole bailout package remains wildly unpopular with the populace at large and Pelosi's lukewarm support and contrarian delivery were pretty obviously at the crux of the failure, I think this may well play out much differently than first impressions over the long haul (granted, the chances would be better if we had a Press that wasn't riding the Obama Express or if the GOP had the guts to go hardball and nail the Dems with soundbites like Schumer's BS about "Send John McCain home" and the role of scum like him, Franks, and Dodd in screwing up our financial system in the first place, as well as touting McCain's unheeded past calls for reform).
 
I caught a little bit of Rush at lunchtime today, he seemed to be having a tough time figuring out whether Pelosi and the Dems were idiots or had outmaneuvered the GOP.   In typical Rush fashion, of course, he wasn't indecisive, he would just go on a toot in one direction for awhile and then switch headings and toot along merrily in another direction for awhile. 

[Wretched Excess]

A Dem from my district who voted FOR the plan said calls to his office were running about 200-1 AGAINST the bill.

Repubs need to get out and explain WHY they voted against this thing.

it has been presented as a "wall street bailout bill" from the get-go.  I'm not sure people fully understand what this could do to the consumer credit market if something isn't done.
 

 

People who have no right getting a loan won't be?  People who have good credit and have down payments will continue to get loans.  NO money down and fancy mortgages and credit deals are gone.
Back to the basics, as it should be.

maybe.  maybe not.

this could extend to all of the consumer credit market, not just mortgages.  cars, credit cards, you name it.  it's hard to pick the fact out from all of the static in the air right now, but it's as likely as not that the people who are defaulting on their mortgage are in the process of defaulting on everything else.

People who are defaulting on their mortgages are likely the same people who were approved for a mortgage with NO money down.  So if they lose their home, they had no real investment to begin with.  Living "in their own home" in which the bank owned close to 100% would be equivalent to living in a rental property.  I have a MINIMUM of 20% down and up to 40% down on my homes.  I'm no where close to a foreclosure.  People who bought a home responsible, like me, and there are LOTS of us have no business bailing out people who bought homes with no initial investment.
I feel the same about people starting businesses or buying cars with no initial investment.

This is how I was taught in life by my parents, responsible enough to teach me to do things the RIGHT way and don't bite off more than you can chew.

At first I had mixed feelings about this bailout...now I'm a staunch opponent to it..for the reasons I illustrated above.

I'm not making my point clearly enough, obviously.  while people getting loans that had no business getting them in the first place is how we got here, it just isn't about them any longer.  no one can get credit if there is no capital to lend.  and with all the hysteria in the air, it's impossible to tell if that is where we are going, or not . . . and the really bad news is that we probably won't know until it happens, and then it will be too late.

[Chris_]

And let me add...McCain is actually IN AGREEMENT with Obama on this...Right there, it should tell you how wrong this is.

McCain and Bush just lost points with me, big time....

I heard McCain being interviewed about this this morning, and his discussion was so "limp-dicked", that it was embarassing.  If he doesn't get on top of this, and stop talking about "earmarks", his poll numbers are going to go into free-fall, and frankly....he deserves it.....

doc

[Wretched Excess]

maybe.  maybe not.

this could extend to all of the consumer credit market, not just mortgages.  cars, credit cards, you name it.  it's hard to pick the fact out from all of the static in the air right now, but it's as likely as not that the people who are defaulting on their mortgage are in the process of defaulting on everything else.

Are you saying it is our responsibility to prop up people who are too stupid to live within their means?

I'm really torn here, by the way. In principle, I hate this. We work very hard to pay stuff on time. We do without to save.

But I also realize that small businesses need loans and lines of credit to stay liquid, and to keep people employed.

no.  I clarified (or attempted to) upstream.

on edit : corrected stream direction.

[Hawkgirl]

The credit market is WIDE OPEN , if you are financially responsible. My son , Friday, called ijn the fact that he was going to buy a car to the dealer, drove in, signd the papers, borrowed some money, drove off with a new car. All within 3 hours.

All week mortgage companies have been calling trying to get me to move my mortgage to them. All tyou need is the money anf you're their pal and they can't wait to loan the money.

Why does anyone believe the consumate BS artists who have caused this problem in the first place?

H5 precisely my point!  Those who QUALIFY for loans will continue to get them.

[Hawkgirl]

And let me add...McCain is actually IN AGREEMENT with Obama on this...Right there, it should tell you how wrong this is.

McCain and Bush just lost points with me, big time....

I heard McCain being interviewed about this this morning, and his discussion was so "limp-dicked", that it was embarassing.  If he doesn't get on top of this, and stop talking about "earmarks", his poll numbers are going to go into free-fall, and frankly....he deserves it.....

doc

I'm about ready to pull my support if he doesn't change course on this.  Maybe I'll be sitting out this election after all if there seems to be no difference between the candidates.

[Wretched Excess]

The credit market is WIDE OPEN , if you are financially responsible. My son , Friday, called ijn the fact that he was going to buy a car to the dealer, drove in, signd the papers, borrowed some money, drove off with a new car. All within 3 hours.

All week mortgage companies have been calling trying to get me to move my mortgage to them. All tyou need is the money anf you're their pal and they can't wait to loan the money.

Why does anyone believe the consumate BS artists who have caused this problem in the first place?

H5 precisely my point!  Those who QUALIFY for loans will continue to get them.

I am glad your son got his car loan, but that is anecdotal evidence being presented in a macroeconomic discussion;  I'm just not sure it's especially relevant.  a reduction in the value of assets, in this case, houses, represents a reduction in the amount of capital that lending institutions have available to lend. 

it may take a while to ripple through all of the various sectors of the economy, but it will get there at some point.

[Baruch Menachem]

The bank where I work is making loans.  You have the collateral, you have the credit history, you can get your loan. 

You can't get a toxic loan, like they were making last year.   But the reality is, if you had that kind of collateral and credit history, you had no business getting a loan in the first place.