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Offline USA4ME

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As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« on: August 29, 2009, 04:33:12 PM »
Quote from:
HamdenRice

Matthew 25:31-46

This was the passage read by the priest at the beginning of Senator Kennedy's funeral.

If you ever discuss what Christianity says about social policy, there are few better passages from the New Testament -- whether you are Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist or any other believe system:

etc....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6420033#6420264

The primitives falsely believe they understand Christianity, which consists of more than just these few verses, but we'll dwell on them for the moment.

Quote from:
Berry Cool

11. Sadly, the Republicans have this crazy notion that what this means is that people should give as a matter of private charity, as they see fit, to those they see as being fit, and not to others who are not "deserving" enough in their eyes (i.e., those they regard as being too "lazy" or acting too "entitled"). Also, that there should be no government giving or distribution of anything to people in need and no programs to help them at all, because these would inevitably be inefficient, wasteful, and would deprive the wealthy, through taxation, of the earnings that they rightfully won through their hard work and diligence.

In short, their philosophy is that everything given to the less fortunate should be given only to those they deem "deserving" and only as a matter of their own private choice. It should not be forced upon them by the government, or regarded as part of the price of living in a society that takes care of even the weakest and least able of its members.

They don't seem to have grasped the idea that Jesus might actually have advocated government that provides for the weakest and least able and the temporarily unfortunate as part of the means by which people adhering to his teachings might demonstrate their commitment to them.

That is how they justify their cold callousness toward others, and their philosophy that if one is in need of help, one should receive it only as charity freely given by one's neighbors, and not in the form of a society that taxes its citizens to ensure that no one does without the basic necessities of life.

Jesus said simply to do these things, but he didn't give the method of how it was to be done.  So to make the claim that those who oppose gov't doing it is somehow opposing Jesus' command is ridiculous.  No, it has nothing to do with who is deserving.  But I wanna focus on this:

Quote from:
They don't seem to have grasped the idea that Jesus might actually have advocated government that provides for the weakest and least able and the temporarily unfortunate as part of the means by which people adhering to his teachings might demonstrate their commitment to them.

That's because Jesus didn't advocate gov't as part of the means.  That's easy enough to demonstrate.  Let's say we lived as a society in anarchy (all forms of gov't are undesirable).  So there is no gov't "as part of the means."  Does that relieve the Christian of his duty to do what Jesus commanded?  No.  So it has to be a one-on-one basis that Jesus was addressing.  That's the only type that fits the situation.

Here's the problem with you, Berry Cool primitive, and the rest of your ilk.  You're not interested in lifting a finger to help the poor, you want to do it at arms length with someone else's money and then claim the credit.  I tell you now you will not stand before God in the end and be able to say you statistied the words of Jesus to take care of the poor, etc.... by saying you paid you taxes "as part of the means".  In fact, don't even mention the social safety net at all because God won't care about that.  He wants to know what YOU did personally.  At this point, the collective of Skin's island has done little or nothing personally to help anyone except themselves and their own selfish desires.

.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 08:52:03 PM by USA4ME »
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Offline franksolich

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 04:34:56 PM »
Awesome, USA4ME.
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Offline Freeper

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 01:14:14 PM »
Quote
That's because Jesus didn't advocate gov't as part of the means.  That's easy enough to demonstrate.  Let's say we lived as a society in anarchy (all forms of gov't are undesirable).  So there is no gov't "as part of the means."  Does that relieve the Christian of his duty to do what Jesus commanded?  No.  So it has to be a one-on-one basis that Jesus was addressing.  That's the only type that fits the situation.

Here's the problem with you, Berry Cool primitive, and the rest of your ilk.  You're not interested in lifting a finger to help the poor, you want to do it at arms length with someone else's money and then claim the credit.  I tell you now you will not stand before God in the end and be able to say you statistied the words of Jesus to take care of the poor, etc.... by saying you paid you taxes "as part of the means".  In fact, don't even mention the social safety net at all because God won't care about that.  He wants to know what YOU did personally.  At this point, the collective of Skin's island has done little or nothing personally to help anyone except themselves and their own selfish desires.

You nailed it pretty well sir.
Jesus was not about forced contribution. After all if we are forced to help the poor we are not following the spirit of the law just the letter. Jesus wanted people to feel compassion and actually take action to help others. Not to sit around and do nothing and let the govt do it.
I haven't studied the Bible in some years but I doubt Jesus ever said anything about the govt being responsible for us. His message was we are responsible for ourselves and to help our neighbors when we can.
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Offline Freeper

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 01:19:20 PM »
Quote
Some DUmmy wrote: Also, that there should be no government giving or distribution of anything to people in need and no programs to help them at all, because these would inevitably be inefficient, wasteful, and would deprive the wealthy, through taxation, of the earnings that they rightfully won through their hard work and diligence.

Wrong most conservatives do not mind a little help from the state govt for those truly in need. The problem we have is the feds being involved and being on public assistance being a life style choice. Govt assistance should be only long enough to help that person to get on his or her feet.
A truly disabled person however I have no problem with the state providing for their needs. And I don't mean depression or being a lush or druggie as being disabled. I mean actually being disabled.
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Offline Freeper

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 01:28:03 PM »
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No Elephants  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Aug-30-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
32. In fairness, I don't think Jesus gave a crap who fed, housed and clothed the poor as long as ALL of
   
Edited on Sun Aug-30-09 11:22 AM by No Elephants
them got fed, clothed and housed--but private charity has never done that in the history of the world, as far as we know.

But, that passage also speaks of being kind to foreigners in your land (strangers) and to prisoners and giving people water. It is a whole way of being in the world, not just charitable contributions and/or contributing to welfare and OASDI through wages.

To be fair you are an idiot. Jesus does care who feeds the poor and clothes them etc. That is why he said "you do it" not petition the govt to do it.

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safeinOhio  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sat Aug-29-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. They only read John.
   
Deeds don't count, only belief. Works great when your a believing prick.

Deeds performed because you embrace the teachings of Jesus do count. Deeds that may be good but are not based on Jesus do not count.

Quote
rucky  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Aug-30-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
26. I usually get far enough with them to hear...
   
that they want churches to run all social services - through privately-funded volunteer organizations.

I ask them to play it out: How do you serve non-denominations? How do you make sure everybody donates their fair share?

Then the hate comes back. Basically they want to control the means of giving, and decide who gives, who receives, and what the terms are. That's not really "giving" - that's controlling.

If the followers in that church they will donate their fair share plus some. Those who aren't true followers won't.
You guys talk about being pro choice well Jesus is pro choice we can choose to follow him or not too. Not once did Jesus say anything about forcing people to subscribe to his teachings.

Watching the dummies talk about the teachings of Jesus is funny. They truly have no clue. Yet they all pretend to be experts.
I am not even close to an expert but, I do understand not only the words of Jesus but, the spirit behind it.



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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 02:11:02 PM »
Quote from: Freeper on August 30, 2009, 01:28:03 PM
You guys talk about being pro choice well Jesus is pro choice we can choose to follow him or not too. Not once did Jesus say anything about forcing people to subscribe to his teachings.

Sir, you're good.   :cheersmate: :cheersmate: :cheersmate:   I hoisted a LaBatt's Blue in your honor just now.
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Offline Freeper

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2009, 02:14:26 PM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on August 30, 2009, 02:11:02 PM
Sir, you're good.   :cheersmate: :cheersmate: :cheersmate:   I hoisted a LaBatt's Blue in your honor just now.

Thank you kind sir. :cheersmate:
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2009, 02:34:12 PM »
Quote from: Freeper on August 30, 2009, 02:14:26 PM
Thank you kind sir. :cheersmate:


You are very welcome.  I just refreshed the LaBatt's Blue, too.  And hoisted it again, to you. :cheersmate:

I may not be a brain scientist, or a rocket surgeon, but I'm just smart enough to know that I, too, am a sinner saved by the Grace of God.  I'm Roman Catholic, and I think that Teddy is . . . well, hot right about now.  And, IMO, it ain't from the Love of God Almighty.  Because I'm not perfect (only Our Lord Jesus Christ was perfect), I've got to keep working at doing whatever I can to better the lives of those worse off than I am.  My past efforts are just that--in the past.  What's important is what I'm doing now.  Raising my daughter (with my wife), to be as Godly as she can be, is what's tantamount now.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 02:42:39 PM by BlueStateSaint »
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2009, 04:14:23 PM »
Quote
In fairness, I don't think Jesus gave a crap who fed, housed and clothed the poor as long as ALL of them got fed, clothed and housed--but private charity has never done that in the history of the world, as far as we know.

This primitive needs a "sock" in the frikkin' mouth!!!!!!!!! Where does it think MOST of the money came from for Katrina and the last Tsunami in Indonesia?
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2009, 04:20:19 PM »
Quote from:
rucky

Basically they want to control the means of giving, and decide who gives, who receives, and what the terms are. That's not really "giving" - that's controlling.

Pat attention to your own words and action, rucky primitive.  You just described what you and those like you want to do; that is, control the means of giving and decide who gives, who receives, and under what terms the giving and receiving takes place (giving via taxes paid to gov't, and receiving via guidelines determined by the gov't).  By virtue of your own definition, you just called what you want to do not "giving" but rather "controlling."

Don't any of you over on Skin's island ever pay attention to just how hypocritical you are?  You really should, and the sooner the better.

.
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Offline jukin

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 04:34:42 PM »
Who would Jesus extort?
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When you are the beneficiary of a policy that steals from someone and gives it to you in return for your vote, it produces a sense of entitlement and dependency.

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2009, 04:49:45 PM »
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Offline Tantal

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2009, 08:10:32 PM »
I love how the atheists, agnostics, and other Godless heathens like to trot out scripture, then twist it into something that it isn't, anytime they want some free stuff on the Christians' dime. By their logic, they will be equally blessed and equally worthy of the Kingdom of God because they paid taxes.
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Offline dandi

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2009, 08:40:13 PM »
Sounds a lot like Sharia government to me. What other Scriptural dictums would the DUmmies be okay with the government enforcing? Or is it just the money part they're okey-dokey with?

I was going to say something along the lines of, "Something tells me the DUmmies haven't thought this thing through." However, I'm just cynical enough to believe they have thought it through. They're just, as always, being purposefully disingenuous, even to go so far as knowingly twisting the teachings of Jesus.

Satan has a strong hold on these folk.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2009, 11:46:00 PM »
Quote from: dandi on August 30, 2009, 08:40:13 PM
Sounds a lot like Sharia government to me. What other Scriptural dictums would the DUmmies be okay with the government enforcing? Or is it just the money part they're okey-dokey with?

I was going to say something along the lines of, "Something tells me the DUmmies haven't thought this thing through." However, I'm just cynical enough to believe they have thought it through. They're just, as always, being purposefully disingenuous, even to go so far as knowingly twisting the teachings of Jesus.

Satan has a strong hold on these folk.

That would sure explain a lot, wouldn't it?
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Offline diesel driver

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2009, 12:04:38 PM »
This DUmbass's post makes sense IF you consider it from the standpoint that government=god....

Other than that, it takes massive amounts of medication....
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: As a public service: Simple concept explained to the primitives
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2009, 09:12:36 PM »
Quote from: diesel driver on August 31, 2009, 12:04:38 PM
This DUmbass's post makes sense IF you consider it from the standpoint that government=god....

Other than that, it takes massive amounts of medication....
Yep.  A god that you can push around, vote for (or against), and control to some degree...which is about all the god-figure any DUmmie can imagine.  It makes so much more sense than the grandpa-in-the-sky guy they imagine Christians "follow."   :mental:  I shudder to think what a great shock they'll find the beginning of eternity.   :thatsright:
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