Author Topic: The risks of homeschooling  (Read 692 times)

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Offline Mary Ann

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The risks of homeschooling
« on: November 28, 2021, 09:08:39 AM »
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216091706
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Star Member Tanuki (13,229 posts)


The risks of homeschooling

https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2020/05/right-now-risks-homeschooling

"A RAPIDLY INCREASING number of American families are opting out of sending their children to school, choosing instead to educate them at home. Homeschooled kids now account for roughly 3 percent to 4 percent of school-age children in the United States, a number equivalent to those attending charter schools, and larger than the number currently in parochial schools.

Yet Elizabeth Bartholet, Wasserstein public interest professor of law and faculty director of the Law School’s Child Advocacy Program, sees risks for children—and society—in homeschooling, and recommends a presumptive ban on the practice. Homeschooling, she says, not only violates children’s right to a “meaningful education” and their right to be protected from potential child abuse, but may keep them from contributing positively to a democratic society.

“We have an essentially unregulated regime in the area of homeschooling,” Bartholet asserts. All 50 states have laws that make education compulsory, and state constitutions ensure a right to education, “but if you look at the legal regime governing homeschooling, there are very few requirements that parents do anything.” Even apparent requirements such as submitting curricula, or providing evidence that teaching and learning are taking place, she says, aren’t necessarily enforced. Only about a dozen states have rules about the level of education needed by parents who homeschool, she adds. “That means, effectively, that people can homeschool who’ve never gone to school themselves, who don’t read or write themselves.” In another handful of states, parents are not required to register their children as homeschooled; they can simply keep their kids at home.

This practice, Bartholet says, can isolate children. She argues that one benefit of sending children to school at age four or five is that teachers are “mandated reporters,” required to alert authorities to evidence of child abuse or neglect. “Teachers and other school personnel constitute the largest percentage of people who report to Child Protective Services,” she explains, whereas not one of the 50 states requires that homeschooling parents be checked for prior reports of child abuse. Even those convicted of child abuse, she adds, could “still just decide, ‘I’m going to take my kids out of school and keep them at home.’”...(more)
I love DU homeschooling threads! So much fun to see them at each others' throats.
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Busterscruggs (82 posts)

3. Homeschool

Really hurts the rest of the school system because with every child removed from public, there is funding needed by the teachers, the unions and the school to function properly that is taken away. Also, homeschooled children are at a distinct unfair advantage over public when they enter college or the workplace since both regard homeschooled children to a greater regard than public. I had to go to a local university to have my identity verified for a new employer. The ladies behind the counter were clearly annoyed that a homeschooled freshman was testing out of all of her prerequisite classes. She shouldn't be allowed to do that and take the required classes.
Ah, yes. Teachers' unions are an integral part of your child's education.  :mental: Also, "homeschooling bad" because it advantages some kids over the ones who sit in public school classrooms every day.
A huge surprise in this thread is that mopinko actually makes some sense, and I find myself (gulp) agreeing with her!
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mopinko (61,374 posts)

32. i hate to tell y'all this, but public schools destroy a lot of kids. not just fail them, destroy.

i love how folks blame the ills of conservatism one the small percentage that homeschool, and ignore the damage done to kids in public schools by bullying, authoritarianism, prejudice, all manner of sicko, etc.

i homeschooled my 4 kids for 8 yrs. the 2 that spent the longest in hs- very successful. it was a bit bumpy for a while, but 1 has a phd in theoretical math. the other spent some time in college, did well, but now runs a restaurant.

the other 2- a hot mess. one attacked and bullied, and never recovered. the other bullied and treated like a freak because of her chronic illness. living on disability.

we like to think when public schools fail, they leave kids at zero. they dont.
they leave too many hanging from the ceiling fan.
All in all, this one is well worth a row over to the island to partake of the crazy goodness for yourselves.



Offline SVPete

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2021, 10:06:55 AM »
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We have an essentially unregulated regime in the area of homeschooling,” Bartholet asserts 1.. All 50 states have laws that make education compulsory, and state constitutions ensure a right to education, “but if you look at the legal regime governing homeschooling, there are very few requirements that parents do anything.” 1. Even apparent requirements such as submitting curricula, or providing evidence that teaching and learning are taking place, she says, aren’t necessarily enforced 2.. Only about a dozen states have rules about the level of education needed by parents who homeschool, she adds. “That means, effectively, that people can homeschool who’ve never gone to school themselves, who don’t read or write themselves.” 3. In another handful of states, parents are not required to register their children as homeschooled 4.; they can simply keep their kids at home.

This practice, Bartholet says, can isolate children. 5. She argues that one benefit of sending children to school at age four or five is that teachers are “mandated reporters,” required to alert authorities to evidence of child abuse or neglect. “Teachers and other school personnel constitute the largest percentage of people who report to Child Protective Services,” she explains, whereas not one of the 50 states requires that homeschooling parents be checked for prior reports of child abuse. 6. ...

Most of y'all probably already know this, but for the sake of those who missed it and for DU-onlurkers, my wife and I homeschooled our children, "K-12". We also founded a local support group that is still around and is approaching its 30th anniversary (we haven't been involved in it since 1996). We also volunteered at regional and statewide homeschooling conventions for one of CA's statewide homeschooling organizations. So I'm speaking from experience, unlike (almost certainly) Elizabeth Bartholet, who is just regurgitating teacher's unions :bs: .

1. BS. Whether by name or indirectly (e.g. CA homeschools being private schools), every state has laws pertaining or applying to homeschooling. More on this below.

2. Oopsie! Bartholet contradicted her claims that homeschooling is "unregulated" and that there are "very few requirements that parents do anything". In real life, states' laws vary. Minimally, they require homeschoolers provide education similar/equivalent to PSs. In CA, private schools (homeschoolers are considered private schools) must have similar days of instruction and cover the same subjects. All private schools in CA file an affidavit with general info about the school, including the number of students. It would not take a great deal of brilliance for state educrats to figure out that a private school with 1-10 students is almost certainly a homeschool. Some states (e.g. NY, IIRC) require parents to submit curriculum info, and must approve their program. Some states require standardized testing, at intervals that vary by state.

Are there parents who keep their children home and do nothing? I assume so, though I never met one in the couple of thousand homeschoolers I encountered. Why a negligent parent would keep their child home rather than farm them out to their local PS eludes me. Tarring hundreds of thousands with the stupidity of a very few is stupidly fallacious.

3. That is moronic hyperbole! Ed schools are more about herd control and current "educational" fads than mastery of the subjects their grads will teach. So IRL, many teachers' mastery of subjects such as Reading, Math, Science, History, etc., is no better, and very possibly worse, than parents who "only" have a high school diploma. At some point older students may come to subjects unfamiliar to their parents, but homeschoolers are very networked. John and Jane Smith may not know advanced Algebra, but Bill and/or Mary Jones in their support group may be engineers of physicists willing to help.

4. Woo hoo! CA doesn't require homeschoolers register as such, but all private schools in CA file an affidavit with general info about the school, including the number of students. It would not take a great deal of brilliance for state educrats to figure out that a private school with 1-10 students is almost certainly a homeschool. More fundamentally, children are not property of the state or local PSs.

5. :bs: IRL, homeschoolers are very networked. There are support groups, co-ops, sports leagues, choirs and bands, special classes ... and they also participate in community-wide activities such as churches, scouting, etc., etc., etc.. The homeschoolers isolate their kids narrative is teacher's unions' :bs:  :bs:  :bs: . Here in Silicon Valley, our family had to be selective about outside-of-the-home activities, just to make sure we had sufficient instruction time (that is literal, not hyperbole).

6. :bs:  :bs:  :bs: Bartholet is lying by omission. Yes, teachers and school people are mandatory reporters. So, e.g., are the doctors and nurses children see. More fundamentally, Bartholet ASSumes all homeschooling parents (or maybe all parents?) are likely abusers. Because homeschooling parents are human beings, the number of abusers is greater than zero, sadly. OTOH, the number of abusive "professional" teachers is probably much higher than the number of abusive homeschooling parents. Bartholet and teacher's unions need to clean out their own nest - and in the case of the unions, stop protecting abusive teachers!!! - before nitpicking homeschooling parents about whom they know almost nothing.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 10:14:59 AM by SVPete »
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline jukin

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2021, 10:53:29 AM »
Home schooled children are at risk for a successful, happy, and fulfilling life having been free of government and leftist (but I repeat myself) indoctrination.
When you are the beneficiary of someone’s kindness and generosity, it produces a sense of gratitude and community.

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Offline SVPete

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2021, 10:59:47 AM »
Home schooled children are at risk for a successful, happy, and fulfilling life having been free of government and leftist (but I repeat myself) indoctrination.

That and causing decreased demand for union teachers are the reasons Progs and Dems hate homeschooling.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline BannedFromDU

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2021, 11:14:39 AM »

     Education is one of those hilarious areas for DUmmies because it pits the mouth-breathing government-control-via-union monkeys against the mere Democrats who - egads - want a good education for their kids. The liberal argument against homeschooling comes down to one thing: you are taking money away from a union, and you are letting children escape the indoctrination we have planned for them. Now, DUmmies who home-school their kids are already indoctrinating them, so that's no loss, but they are making clear that they don't want their kids anywhere near the unparented, violent, disruptive future Antifa kids that clog up public schools now. Pam Dawson is a public teacher.

     I strongly encourage anyone with any desire to have well-educated children to beg, borrow, or even steal their way into a private school that demands accountability. And for those with the time and wherewithal to homeschool, even better.  Despite the money they donate to liberals, business don't want products of schools that promise equality of outcomes.

     The bifurcation of American society into the uneducated rabble and the educated successful has never been more evident than now.
NJCher (31,658 posts)

5. IMO

a certain percentage of DU is depressed and has other mental issues.

Offline FlaGator

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2021, 11:17:51 AM »
"OH MY GAWD! We won't be able to indoctrinate them in groupthink and teach them who to hate! This is a disaster!!!!"
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Offline thundley4

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2021, 11:29:40 AM »
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The ladies behind the counter were clearly annoyed that a homeschooled freshman was testing out of all of her prerequisite classes. She shouldn't be allowed to do that and take the required classes.

Wait!  So the home schooled kids are better prepared for college courses? That should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Offline Mary Ann

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2021, 11:32:09 AM »
I never home schooled, but had lots of friends who did. One of my Michigan friends was among the first in the state to go that route. This was in the mid-90's. She had someone from the school district drive into her driveway, park the car, and "observe" through the windows! At that time, homeschooling parents were even being arrested.

She had taken her kids out of public schools when her older daughter was inexplicably having problems learning. My friend, who wasn't a college graduate, researched learning styles, and adapted her curriculum to the way her daughter learned. In school she would have been labelled learning disabled, which would have done her no good, but would have enabled the school system to get more $$$.


Offline SVPete

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2021, 12:00:54 PM »
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Busterscruggs (82 posts)

3. Homeschool

Really hurts the rest of the school system because with every child removed from public, there is funding needed by the teachers, the unions and the school to function properly that is taken away 1.. Also, homeschooled children are at a distinct unfair advantage over public when they enter college or the workplace since both regard homeschooled children to a greater regard than public. 2. I had to go to a local university to have my identity verified for a new employer. The ladies behind the counter were clearly annoyed that a homeschooled freshman was testing out of all of her prerequisite classes. 3. 4.  She shouldn't be allowed to do that and take the required classes.

1. Homeschooling families' taxes are not reduced so much as a penny by their choice to homeschool. What does change is that their local schools receive $$ by Average Daily Attendance. So every homeschooled student is on the order of $10K-$15K a year the local school won't receive, but also that student is not there on whom that $10K-$15K would be expended.

2. It's more complicated than that, especially at colleges.Lawsuits forced universities to take homeschooled applicants seriously (the military as well, BTW). Lo and behold, when they did, they found homeschooled students did rather well. Likewise with employers, minus lawsuits (IIRC). The bottom line is that that "greater regard" has been earned.

3. Butthurt :bouncy::rotf: .

4. Ummmmm ... "testing out" of classes means those homeschooled students took tests that proved they knew the material of the classes from which they tested out. "Testing out" means those students' time wasn't wasted, and they didn't occupy limited classroom seats other students needed. The point of "required classes" is supposed to be knowledge learned, not time served.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline USA4ME

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2021, 12:21:28 PM »
This must be “channeling” day on the island. Now they’re channeling their authoritarian desire that parents should hand over their children to the collective. Their excuses revolve around money for the schools, that the parents aren’t qualified, and that the students might be exposed to the teachings of God and traditional moral standards.

Looks like the primitives will just have to get over it.

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2021, 04:59:13 PM »
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Busterscruggs (82 posts)

3. Homeschool

Really hurts the rest of the school system because with every child removed from public, there is funding needed by the teachers, the unions and the school to function properly that is taken away.

One would think the funding is only as much as is needed per student. One less student, one less burden and thus no need for that funding. Obviously this is not the case and public schools are tantamount to a for-profit enterprise.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2021, 06:00:46 PM »
Looking at it from the flip side, parents’ freedom to direct their children’s education was recognized by the USSC something like a century ago. As usual, DUmmies oppose freedoms with options and outcomes they hate.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 09:32:10 AM by SVPete »
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline DefiantSix

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2021, 07:30:17 PM »
One would think the funding is only as much as is needed per student. One less student, one less burden and thus no need for that funding. Obviously this is not the case and public schools are tantamount to a for-profit enterprise.

I figured that out when I was still in grade school. As a Navy Brat, we were considered the lowest of the low all the rest of the school year, but on the first day of school, even before the teachers went over the school rules, they were handing out the paperwork to take home to our parents to figure out how many of them were active duty military that they could get federal matching funds for. And oh, they hounded us harder for that paperwork than they would for any parent's permission slip or missing math assignment ever.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2021, 07:33:10 PM »
Hey lurking DUmbasses, it's none of your f'n business how parents decide to educate their children. They're not wards of the state, you Damn lunatics.
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Offline landofconfusion80

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2021, 08:34:20 PM »
Hey lurking DUmbasses, it's none of your f'n business how parents decide to educate their children. They're not wards of the state, you Damn lunatics.
You'd think they were....staying in line, regimented class and eating times, focusing all energies on passing a federally approved test..
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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2021, 12:50:41 AM »
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This practice, Bartholet says, can isolate children. She argues that one benefit of sending children to school at age four or five is that teachers are “mandated reporters,” required to alert authorities to evidence of child abuse or neglect. “Teachers and other school personnel constitute the largest percentage of people who report to Child Protective Services,” she explains, whereas not one of the 50 states requires that homeschooling parents be checked for prior reports of child abuse. Even those convicted of child abuse, she adds, could “still just decide, ‘I’m going to take my kids out of school and keep them at home.’”...(more)

These are the same people arresting and spying on parents for disagreeing with the school board and want abortion provided to minors (read: statutory rape, if the father is an adult) without notifying anyone - especially the police.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Wineslob

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2021, 11:55:09 AM »
Dummies, while my child was still in grade school if she was sick the public school NEEDED us to drive up, have her counted and then go back home.


Why was that? She wasn't actually at school.....
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Offline Aristotelian

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2021, 11:40:16 AM »
Hey lurking DUmbasses, it's none of your f'n business how parents decide to educate their children. They're not wards of the state, you Damn lunatics.

That's where the argument begins, it's where the argument ends too - nothing more needs to be said. Parents are the primary educators of their children, simple as.

Offline enslaved1

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2021, 12:29:20 PM »
As a parent who has attempted home schooling and got kids through the public schools in three different states, a teacher, the husband of a teacher, the son of a teacher, and a former public school student, I can say without a doubt... our public school system sucks.  I cannot fathom how anyone, regardless of ideology, can look at the system and say anything otherwise.  There are great opportunities available within the system, but over all, the foundations have been shattered, additions have been put up with baling wire and duct tape, repairs made with nothing but spackle and paint.

Yes, there are risks to homeschooling, not only the sarcastic, but accurate ones listed in some of these replies, but the risks of people who know nothing to begin with (public school products) trying to teach their children, the risks of different fundamentalist idiots (across various spectrums) indoctrinating their own children, the risks of abusers going even more undetected than they do now.  Risk is a fact of life and freedom.  That is foreign to the moonbats who want to be like H. G. Wells' Eloi, taken care of with no risk or responsibility, except to walk into that unknown door to be eaten occasionally.  They are willing to make that trade.  Most rational people are not. 
Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Offline Texacon

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Re: The risks of homeschooling
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2021, 03:52:21 PM »
     Education is one of those hilarious areas for DUmmies because it pits the mouth-breathing government-control-via-union monkeys against the mere Democrats who - egads - want a good education for their kids. The liberal argument against homeschooling comes down to one thing: you are taking money away from a union, and you are letting children escape the indoctrination we have planned for them. Now, DUmmies who home-school their kids are already indoctrinating them, so that's no loss, but they are making clear that they don't want their kids anywhere near the unparented, violent, disruptive future Antifa kids that clog up public schools now. Pam Dawson is a public teacher.

     I strongly encourage anyone with any desire to have well-educated children to beg, borrow, or even steal their way into a private school that demands accountability. And for those with the time and wherewithal to homeschool, even better.  Despite the money they donate to liberals, business don't want products of schools that promise equality of outcomes.

     The bifurcation of American society into the uneducated rabble and the educated successful has never been more evident than now.


Actually, Pam Dawson admitted in a post not long ago that she took early retirement because she was too frightened to return to actual school.  She figured she'd be able to ride the gravy train from home as long as she wanted and they slapped her down.  Thank God for the kids she retired.

I saw her post that on another thread a couple of months ago and wasn't in a position to bring it over.  It wasn't long after she announced she was selling her townhome or condo, or whatever it was she was living in.  When I read she retired it made me wonder if THAT was the reason she sold her dwelling and not because of the condo collapse in FL.

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