The Conservative Cave
The Bar => Sports => Topic started by: NHSparky on November 01, 2008, 07:57:49 AM
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List them here. Defend your choices. Discuss.
My criteria:
--Local and national/regional appeal.
--Variety. One team towns need not apply.
--Success at professional level.
--Historical value/significance.
--Fan loyalty and knowledge.
In no particular order:
--New York
--Chicago
--Boston
--St. Louis
--Los Angeles
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List them here. Defend your choices. Discuss.
My criteria:
--Local and national/regional appeal.
--Variety. One team towns need not apply.
--Success at professional level.
--Historical value/significance.
--Fan loyalty and knowledge.
In no particular order:
--New York
--Chicago
--Boston
--St. Louis
--Los Angeles
Fan Loyalty and Los Angeles do NOT belong together.
And where is Philly? I mean, according to some on this board it is a significant market ;)
(btw: I think you are right about the markets, but you might want to expand Boston to a lot of New England.)
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List them here. Defend your choices. Discuss.
My criteria:
--Local and national/regional appeal.
--Variety. One team towns need not apply.
--Success at professional level.
--Historical value/significance.
--Fan loyalty and knowledge.
In no particular order:
--New York
--Chicago
--Boston
--St. Louis
--Los Angeles
I think if we are considering all sports then you have to consider Detroit also, which has a pretty large market. But I agree with your list for the most part if that is the top 5. I would replace St. Louis with Philly though.
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New York
Chicago
Detroit
Boston
Los Angeles
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New York
Chicago
Detroit
Boston
Los Angeles
The NFL continues to not understand why L.A.'s response to putting a team here "how much will you pay US?" It cost those MENSA members in Houston $2 billion to get the Texans.
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The NFL continues to not understand why L.A.'s response to putting a team here "how much will you pay US?" It cost those MENSA members in Houston $2 billion to get the Texans.
LOL Yeah, they really need football again. I gave LA credit for the Raiders who I think won a SB while there and also the Dodgers, Lakers and Angels. (hey if Foxboro counts for Boston...)
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LOL Yeah, they really need football again. I gave LA credit for the Raiders who I think won a SB while there and also the Dodgers, Lakers and Angels. (hey if Foxboro counts for Boston...)
The L.A. Raiders won the SB twice -- 1980 and 1984
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Fan Loyalty and Los Angeles do NOT belong together.
And where is Philly? I mean, according to some on this board it is a significant market ;)
(btw: I think you are right about the markets, but you might want to expand Boston to a lot of New England.)
I disagree. Witness the Dodgers (most attended baseball team of the past 50 years), the Lakers, and even 13 years after they left and Al Davis ****ed LA over, the Raiders.
Put it this way--do fans in Cleveland still follow the Ravens?
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I think if we are considering all sports then you have to consider Detroit also, which has a pretty large market. But I agree with your list for the most part if that is the top 5. I would replace St. Louis with Philly though.
I wouldn't. 10,000 losses does not a following make. Detroit wasn't on my list because outside Detroit metro, who gives a shit about the Lions, Tigers, or Pistons? All they've had going for them for the last 30 years is the Red Wings, and shit, you can't even throw octopus on the ice anymore. Considering the success of the Rams and Cards is what made me give the nod to St. Louis, not to mention the fact that their sports history is nearly as long as anyone's. The only thing that really makes it kind of "mushy" is the fact that St. Louis hasn't had a pro basketball franchise since the Spirits of the old ABA.
Consequently, I had to really decide if Dallas perhaps didn't belong in there, given the immense popularity of the Cowboys, coupled with the success of the Stars since they moved from Minnesota, the Rangers, and Mavericks under Cuban. But all in all, Dallas is still all about the Cowboys, and just the Cowboys.
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I disagree. Witness the Dodgers (most attended baseball team of the past 50 years), the Lakers, and even 13 years after they left and Al Davis ****ed LA over, the Raiders.
Put it this way--do fans in Cleveland still follow the Ravens?
Cleveland and Ravens is a different dynamic.
You clearly don't remember the Lakers between the Magic era and the Shaq era: you couldn't pay people to go to the games. And the Dodgers may pack the seats,. but the Angels, Kings and Ducks do nothing unless they are winning a LOT.
Los Angeles is NOT a sports town.
And as I have said many times, we are the most devastating fans: if you don't win, WE DON'T CARE.
The opposite of love is not hate, but rather indifference.
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I wouldn't. 10,000 losses does not a following make. Detroit wasn't on my list because outside Detroit metro, who gives a shit about the Lions, Tigers, or Pistons? All they've had going for them for the last 30 years is the Red Wings, and shit, you can't even throw octopus on the ice anymore. Considering the success of the Rams and Cards is what made me give the nod to St. Louis, not to mention the fact that their sports history is nearly as long as anyone's. The only thing that really makes it kind of "mushy" is the fact that St. Louis hasn't had a pro basketball franchise since the Spirits of the old ABA.
Consequently, I had to really decide if Dallas perhaps didn't belong in there, given the immense popularity of the Cowboys, coupled with the success of the Stars since they moved from Minnesota, the Rangers, and Mavericks under Cuban. But all in all, Dallas is still all about the Cowboys, and just the Cowboys.
I disagree -- I lived in Michigan. Their market extends into Canada as they follow Detroit teams also. They are die hard fans, and if you throw in college teams here you can count some pure fanatics also.
I used to go the old Tiger Stadium when the Red Sox were in town. That was about 17-18 years ago. Red Sox Nation was alive and well then also. :)
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Cleveland and Ravens is a different dynamic.
You clearly don't remember the Lakers between the Magic era and the Shaq era: you couldn't pay people to go to the games. And the Dodgers may pack the seats,. but the Angels, Kings and Ducks do nothing unless they are winning a LOT.
Los Angeles is NOT a sports town.
And as I have said many times, we are the most devastating fans: if you don't win, WE DON'T CARE.
The opposite of love is not hate, but rather indifference.
The Angels spend a lot of money on payroll every year. They didn't make that money selling sushi during games to a hand full of season ticket holders.
We have an Angels' transplant here who flies his ex-wife in from LA to watch their team lose to the Red Sox. She has season tickets, and he whines a lot when they lose. Meh, I guess they have a few "real" fans of that team.
:popcorn:
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I disagree -- I lived in Michigan. Their market extends into Canada as they follow Detroit teams also. They are die hard fans, and if you throw in college teams here you can count some pure fanatics also.
I used to go the old Tiger Stadium when the Red Sox were in town. That was about 17-18 years ago. Red Sox Nation was alive and well then also. :)
Put it this way--more people care more about the game in Ann Arbor on Saturday than Detroit on Sunday.
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they estimate 2 to 3 million people along the parade route, even if the dodgers ever won I dont think they could get half that. Why am i defending the philly fans from a bunch of people from cities that didnt make it? The LA fans could not support the teams when the won or lost.
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they estimate 2 to 3 million people along the parade route, even if the dodgers ever won I dont think they could get half that. Why am i defending the philly fans from a bunch of people from cities that didnt make it? The LA fans could not support the teams when the won or lost.
Red Sox had more than that --- in the cold crappy rain -- in 2004.
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Put it this way--more people care more about the game in Ann Arbor on Saturday than Detroit on Sunday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
They love their teams.
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Red Sox had more than that --- in the cold crappy rain -- in 2004.
I would hope so seeing is it took how long to win a WS? :rotf:
Not that i don't believe you (well i don't) prove it?
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I would hope so seeing is it took how long to win a WS? :rotf:
Not that i don't believe you (well i don't) prove it?
But as soon as Mayor Thomas M. Menino's staff announced that the crowd at Saturday's Red Sox ''rolling rally" celebration totaled 3.2 million people, some skeptics began to scratch their heads and pull out their calculators.
Was it really possible that roughly the population of Madrid or Chicago had squeezed into Boston and the Cambridge side of the Charles River to see the World Series champions rumble by in duck boats? How did they get here? How did they get home? Where did they all park?
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/11/01/crowd_size_could_be_in_the_eye_of_beholder/
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they estimate 2 to 3 million people along the parade route, even if the dodgers ever won I dont think they could get half that. Why am i defending the philly fans from a bunch of people from cities that didnt make it? The LA fans could not support the teams when the won or lost.
Prove it. There was no estimate of crowd size given, and guesses were in the "one million" range.
:popcorn:
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http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081028&content_id=3650822&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi
over a million to 2.5 pretty close to what i said.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :tongue:
And if my memory serves me didnt the fans of Boston almost burn that city down when they won? I understand though it was what 80+ years since you won a WS or was it when the pats won?
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http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081028&content_id=3650822&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi
over a million to 2.5 pretty close to what i said.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :tongue:
And if my memory serves me didnt the fans of Boston almost burn that city down when they won? I understand though it was what 80+ years since you won a WS or was it when the pats won?
??
No. Some idiot college students did some stupid things, but they didn't burn anything.
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they estimate 2 to 3 million people along the parade route, even if the dodgers ever won I dont think they could get half that. Why am i defending the philly fans from a bunch of people from cities that didnt make it? The LA fans could not support the teams when the won or lost.
Too bad all those people didn't watch the Series. ;)
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I wouldn't. 10,000 losses does not a following make. Detroit wasn't on my list because outside Detroit metro, who gives a shit about the Lions, Tigers, or Pistons? All they've had going for them for the last 30 years is the Red Wings, and shit, you can't even throw octopus on the ice anymore. Considering the success of the Rams and Cards is what made me give the nod to St. Louis, not to mention the fact that their sports history is nearly as long as anyone's. The only thing that really makes it kind of "mushy" is the fact that St. Louis hasn't had a pro basketball franchise since the Spirits of the old ABA.
Consequently, I had to really decide if Dallas perhaps didn't belong in there, given the immense popularity of the Cowboys, coupled with the success of the Stars since they moved from Minnesota, the Rangers, and Mavericks under Cuban. But all in all, Dallas is still all about the Cowboys, and just the Cowboys.
Actually you would be correct to a point but The Pistons have a pretty big following here as well! The Tigers have actually gotten better{until this year :banghead:} The Lions are well.......They don't call them The Motor City Kitties for nuthin! :banghead: :lmao:
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In no particular order:
--New York
--Chicago
--Denver
--Houston
--Dallas
.
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In no particular order:
--New York
--Chicago
--Denver
--Houston
--Dallas
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Uh, Boston isn't in the top five?!!
:lmao:
:rotf:
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Uh, Boston isn't in the top five?!!
It's an opinion. Boston would have been in the top 5, along with SF, if the question was "Top 5 Sports Markets for Homos and Assorted Liberal Freaks." It wasn't.
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It's an opinion. Boston would have been in the top 5, along with SF, if the question was "Top 5 Sports Markets for Homos and Assorted Liberal Freaks." It wasn't.
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BAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
:bawl: <--- there is no crying in baseball, or sports, or sports forums. Mmmmmkay?
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Well, you're going to have to accept that your criteria for "Top 5 Sports Markets" may not be what everyone else uses. Or not. Doesn't matter to me.
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Well, you're going to have to accept that your criteria for "Top 5 Sports Markets" may not be what everyone else uses. Or not. Doesn't matter to me.
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Sparky outlined what the criteria is in the OP.
Houston, I will giggle about all day......
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Sparky outlined what the criteria is in the OP.
He said...
My criteria:
Not THE criteria.
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He said...
Not THE criteria.
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::)
He also said Defend your choices and all you have done is whine about "homos" and "liberal freaks" which is relevant how to this conversation?
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::)
He also said Defend your choices and all you have done is whine about "homos" and "liberal freaks" which is relevant how to this conversation?
I just said that stuff for fun.
Even given his criteria, I still wouldn't have Boston in the Top 5. It's OK though. Really, it is. If someone makes a list and doesn't include NY or Chicago, that's up to them, it wouldn't bother me in the least. I figure they have their reasons and good for them.
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I just said that stuff for fun.
Even given his criteria, I still wouldn't have Boston in the Top 5. It's OK though. Really, it is. If someone makes a list and doesn't include NY or Chicago, that's up to them, it wouldn't bother me in the least. I figure they have their reasons and good for them.
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Uh-huh.
Our Best Sports City rankings, which look at the 12 months from roughly October 2007 to October 2008, are based on point values assigned to various categories, including but not limited to won-lost records, postseason appearances, applicable power ratings, number of teams and attendance.
1. Boston
2. Detroit
3. Dallas
4. New York
5. Philadelphia
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=468401
Team Current Value ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%) Debt/Value (%) Revenue ($mil) Operating Income ($mil)
1 Dallas Cowboys 1,612 7 39 269 30.6
2 Washington Redskins 1,538 5 16 327 58.1
3 New England Patriots 1,324 10 21 282 39.2
4 New York Giants 1,178 21 55 214 41.2
5 New York Jets 1,170 21 68 213 25.9
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/30/sportsmoney_nfl08_NFL-Team-Valuations_Rank.html
Most Valuable MLB Teams
1. New York Yankees
2. New York Mets
3. Boston Red Sox
4. Los Angeles Dodgers
5. Chicago Cubs
http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/16/baseball-team-values-bix-sports-baseball08-cx_mo_kb_0416baseball_land.html
Rank
1 New York City Area New York Dragons New York Mets New York Red Bulls New York Knicks New York Giants New York Rangers
New York Yankees New Jersey Nets New York Jets New Jersey Devils New York Islanders
2 Los Angeles Los Angeles Avengers Los Angeles Dodgers Chivas USA Los Angeles Clippers Los Angeles Kings
Los Angeles Angels Los Angeles Galaxy Los Angeles Lakers Anaheim Ducks
3 Chicago Chicago Rush Chicago Cubs Chicago Fire Chicago Bulls Chicago Bears Chicago Blackhawks
Chicago White Sox
4 Washington / Baltimore Washington Nationals DC United Washington Wizards Washington Redskins Washington Capitals
Baltimore Orioles Baltimore Ravens
5 Boston Boston Red Sox New England Revolution Boston Celtics New England Patriots Boston Bruins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TV_markets_and_major_sports_teams
The common factor in a few of the rankings I pulled off google is of course Boston, which supports the criteria as outlined in the OP.
Boston/New England has a huge market. Couple in the success its teams has enjoyed this past decade, they are most certainly in the top five and #1 and 2 in many rankings.
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The common factor ..........
Whatever.
Someone PM'd me and told me you've got some hard-on for BeanTown. That explains a lot. You've made it quite clear to everyone that, in your opinion, they're in the Top 5. But to me just because a city has a huge market or their team has had recent success doesn't make them a top sport's market. There are other criteria that outweigh those and it was left up to the individual to use their own criteria.
Look, it's only Boston. No big deal.
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Whatever.
Someone PM'd me and told me you've got some hard-on for BeanTown.
:lmao:
Amateurs.
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:rotf:
I just noticed my bitch slaps. Hurt wittle feelings? Touch a nerve?
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
You saying something about homos?........................
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2 Los Angeles Los Angeles Avengers Los Angeles Dodgers Chivas USA Los Angeles Clippers Los Angeles Kings
Los Angeles Angels Los Angeles Galaxy Los Angeles Lakers Anaheim Ducks
Hey, FL, I thought we were talking about professional teams in professional sports.
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Hey, FL, I thought we were talking about professional teams in professional sports.
That was a tv market ranking, which included those teams. LA has a significant market which is evident by the two MLB teams they support in a large fashion moneywise.
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:rotf:
I just noticed my bitch slaps. Hurt wittle feelings? Touch a nerve?
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
You saying something about homos?........................
Paranoid much? I'm the one who noted that these lists are just an opinion, hardly anything to get concerned about. You're the one who got all worked up over it and commented to my choices, not the other way around.
As far as H5's and BS's, I don't pay attention to that junk, so you're barking up the wrong tree. Just like when there's these threads of "Congrats on 2,000 posts!!!!," I don't mess with that either. Ask around, there's several people on this site who have known me for at least 4 years. What you're describing just isn't me. I pounce on libs, not on junk like this.
Now if you've got something you want to discuss, PM me and I'll be more than happy to address you. You'll find I'm a very pleasant person. Otherwise it's an opinion question, I treated that way, and that's all it is.
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Paranoid much? I'm the one who noted that these lists are just an opinion, hardly anything to get concerned about. You're the one who got all worked up over it and commented to my choices, not the other way around.
As far as H5's and BS's, I don't pay attention to that junk, so you're barking up the wrong tree. Just like when there's these threads of "Congrats on 2,000 posts!!!!," I don't mess with that either. Ask around, there's several people on this site who have known me for at least 4 years. What you're describing just isn't me. I pounce on libs, not on junk like this.
Now if you've got something you want to discuss, PM me and I'll be more than happy to address you. You'll find I'm a very pleasant person. Otherwise it's an opinion question, I treated that way, and that's all it is.
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I don't pay attention to it either. In sports it's all smack and that is all it is -- nothing personal so certainly don't take it that way.