Canadian Premier could have received same operation in Canada

[Texacon]

Let the fun begin!

Bragi  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 09:27 AM
Original message

Canadian Premier could have received same operation in Canada
 If you've been following the story that is being touted by repubs about how a Canadian Premier recently was forced to go to the US for the latest in heart surgery, below is a useful update.

Bottom line: this surgery is widely available in Canada with little waiting time, but it is usually done just for cosmetic reasons, not because it is a better treatment.


The premier of Newfoundland and Labrador opted to leave Canada for his heart operation despite the fact the world leader in the surgery he needed is much closer to home.

Dr. Thierry Mesana, the University of Ottawa Heart Institute's chief of cardiac surgery, is the recognized expert in mitral valve reconstruction. Dr. Mesana's work was featured in the December 2009 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

Danny Williams, 60, who suffered mitral valve regurgitation (a leaky valve), was treated at Mount Sinai Hospital in Miami. In an interview with Newfoundland Television from his condominium in Sarasota, he defended his decision, saying, "It's my health and it's my choice."...

While the heart institute will not comment on the choices of individual patients, Dr. Mesana explained "minimally invasive mitral valve repair consists of doing an MV repair surgically through a five-centimetre small side chest incision instead of a 10-centimetre incision in the middle of the chest."

He added that while "there are a few advantages in terms of length of hospital stay, transfusion or post-operative arrythmias, the only real benefit is cosmetic. Many world-renowned experts do not advocate it. It is done in Canada, but again, with caution. I propose it only for cosmetic reasons in a young woman who dislikes the idea of having a scar."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Premier+bypassed+wo...
 

snagglepuss (1000+ posts)     

Wed Feb-24-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message

2. IMO this is part of a concerted effort to derail Canada's public health care
 by those who want Canadian healthcare opened to to private healthcare providers. The fact that it is a premier that is casting doubt on the quality of Canadian healthcare by goint to the US indicates that the campaign is moving into a higher gear.

Ahhhh it's a conspiracy .... by a leftist to help the right!  I knew they would figure it out.

Bragi  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #3

7. The same treatment was available in Canada 
 He is a rich man, and basically paid money to go to the U.S. to avoid a short wait time here, whereas with his money he could buy the same treatment immediately in Florida.

Wait, wait, wait.  All you Canadians were telling us there WERE no wait times ... which is it?

Spazito  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message

4. Williams couldn't buy his way to the front of the line in Canada...
 but he could, and did, in the U.S. He is also going to submit his 'expenses' in hopes of being reimbursed (not going to happen). It's pretty sad when a foreigner (Williams) can bump an American citizen from the top of the 'list' because he can pay the outrageous cost where others cannot.
His actions are not going over well in most of Canada.

He didn't 'bump' anyone.  He was put on a schedule.  Someone has to be in line .. not everyone can be first which is something all you DUmmies need to learn. 

I'm sure there is more to come but this is the first thread I found on it and it just started ....

KC

[thundley4]

Spazito  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message

4. Williams couldn't buy his way to the front of the line in Canada...
 but he could, and did, in the U.S. He is also going to submit his 'expenses' in hopes of being reimbursed (not going to happen). It's pretty sad when a foreigner (Williams) can bump an American citizen from the top of the 'list' because he can pay the outrageous cost where others cannot.
His actions are not going over well in most of Canada.

There are probably more doctors that can do the procedure here, so there was no line to jump ahead of.

[Texacon]

polly7  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #3

9. No, Canada has some of the top cardiologists in the world and
 the procedure is done here, so it wasn't a case of wanting the 'best' possible care, as identical care is being practiced right here. He has a condo in Florida, I wonder if that played a part in it.

It was two Canadian physicians who wrote the how-to paper on valve surgery published only late last year in the New England Journal of Medicine. There are famous surgeons like Toronto’s Dr. Tirone David, who’s been called a “virtuoso” valve man. Minimally invasive procedures, the style of surgery Williams chose, are offered in Canada in places like the University of Ottawa Heart Institute.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/23/canadian-health-care... /

“I don’t know the reasons Mr. Williams opted to have his operation in Florida. It is certainly not because minimally invasive mitral valve repair is not available in Canada. Canadian heart surgeons routinely do minimally invasive mitral valve repair including techniques involvng endoscopic and robotic approaches.
“There is absolutely no evidence that robotic mitral valve repair is superior to other minimally invasive approaches, such as a limited sternotomy or lateral thoracomy, with or without the aid of endoscopes. Moreover, when it comes to heart valve surgery, there are very few places in the world that can match the outomes we have provided at Toronto General Hospital.
“Having said all that, Mr. Williams certainly had the right to go anywhere he wanted for surgery.”

So now we'll just deny what 'Mr. Williams' said himself?!

"This was my heart, my choice and my health," Williams said late Monday from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla.

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

See those little " " things .... those mean Mr. Williams said something.  DUmmies should learn to read.

KC

[Karin]

I heard on the radio (Beck or Rush), that the procedure in Canada required the breaking of bones.  In the US, the device is snaked up through the arterial system.  Better and quicker recovery, less risky surgery.  Not just cosmetic.  DUmmies can bitch all they want, I think it's a great story, and oh so timely.  

[DumbAss Tanker]

Bragi  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 09:27 AM
Original message

Canadian Premier could have received same operation in Canada ...

"...Eventually."

 

[jukin]

After a long wait and by, most likely, a doctor that couldn't make the med schools in North America and comes from India. 

[Texacon]

LOL  This one's good;

Barack_America  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #15

19. No. He wanted to have the procedure done in Florida...
 ...both for the convenience of his winter home and because he preferred the way the procedure was done at that clinic. He certainly seems to be recuperating from the surgery in Florida, no? Or do you think they're lying about where this interview took place?

There's nothing wrong or scandalous about that. Surgeries are done based on how the surgeons at that particular hospital like to do them, leading to great variation from hospital to hospital. There is nothing wrong with "shopping around" to get the surgery and surgeon you feel comfortable with. That's how health care should be.

hehe  Wait until DUmbass gets 'O'care.  We'll see how much shopping around it gets to do!

 

KC

[Texacon]

'Ol Barack_America is having a hard time 'splainin' to the DUmmies how this all works.

Barack_America  (1000+ posts)       
Wed Feb-24-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message

13. "...from his condo in Sarasota..."
 The dude's a snowbird. Many Canadians winter in the US and have an additional plan that covers medical treatment in the US. Why should the guy have traveled all the way back to Canada when he was covered to have the operation in Florida, where he was living?

It's not at all as if this guy had to travel all the way from Canada (oh my) to have an operation in the US, he was already living here!

Barack_America  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #15

19. No. He wanted to have the procedure done in Florida...
 ...both for the convenience of his winter home and because he preferred the way the procedure was done at that clinic. He certainly seems to be recuperating from the surgery in Florida, no? Or do you think they're lying about where this interview took place?

There's nothing wrong or scandalous about that. Surgeries are done based on how the surgeons at that particular hospital like to do them, leading to great variation from hospital to hospital. There is nothing wrong with "shopping around" to get the surgery and surgeon you feel comfortable with. That's how health care should be.

SidDithers  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #13

18. The Premier of Newfoundland lives in Miami?...
 that's a hell of a commute to the Provincial legislature!
Sid

Barack_America  (1000+ posts)       
Wed Feb-24-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #18

22. So the article was lying about interviewing him in a condo in Sarasota?
 I don't get your point.

I'm going to take a guess that he stays at this condo either when he's on vacation or when parliament is not in session, which for the sake of the Canadian taxpayers, hopefully overlap.

SidDithers  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #22

24. No, but you're wrong about him "living" there...
 Many Canadians have vacation properties in Florida, that they use for a couple of weeks a year. Have you seen how cheap Florida real estate is lately?

Premier of Newfoundland is a full-time job. Williams might vacation in Florida, but he certainly isn't a snowbird, who spends the entire winter in Florida, and he most definately doesn't "already live there".

Sid

Oooops!

Barack_America  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Feb-24-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #24

29. Living, staying, it really doesn't matter. He likely had the procedure on vacation time...
 ...where he vacations.
He had the procedure at an area he was familiar with and possible even came recommended to him by acquaintances.

Listen, I'm not saying that he did or did not line jump. What I am saying is that one man's decision about how best to manage his own health says NOTHING about how good or bad US or Canadian health care is. If we start sacrificing patient's rights and patient choice in this debate, we've already lost.

hahaha....  Yes, I'm sure he is using his vacation time. 

These DUmmies will get so tied up in knots trying to defend the indefensible.

KC

[dandi]

Well hell, since he was so close, why didn't he bop on down to Cuba?

They're the best, you know.

[Texacon]

Well hell, since he was so close, why didn't he bop on down to Cuba?

They're the best, you know.

^5!

KC

[The Village Idiot]

Well hell, since he was so close, why didn't he bop on down to Cuba?

They're the best, you know.

Hey I posted an article a while back called Cuba Health Care: Doctors without band-aids.

I'm sure it can be found with a search

[GOBUCKS]

I'm confused about how Canada can have all these top cardiologists, surgeons, and other specialists. They all speak English. They can easily move across the border and make several times more money. They can be only a few miles from the rest of their Canadian families. And they can enjoy that enormously increased income in a more pleasant climate, if they so choose. So how Canada have all these top cardiologists, surgeons, and other specialists? Has an American doctor, or an American patient, ever crossed the border northbound?

[Ralph Wiggum]

Has an American doctor, or an American patient, ever crossed the border northbound?

Maybe to avoid Vietnam.

[BEG]

Maybe to avoid Vietnam.

Snort! 

[terry]

I heard on the radio (Beck or Rush), that the procedure in Canada required the breaking of bones.  In the US, the device is snaked up through the arterial system.  Better and quicker recovery, less risky surgery.  Not just cosmetic.  DUmmies can bitch all they want, I think it's a great story, and oh so timely.  

Exactly.  How can you say not wanting to have your bones broken is cosmetic..
limited sternotomy...
"The patient is anesthetized in the supine position. The lower borders of the second ribs approximately 5 cm on either side of the midline and the tip of the xiphisternum are marked as the primary reference points. A 10-cm-long vertical skin incision is made approximately 3 cm below the level of the second rib. The periosteum over the sternum is incised vertically from the level of the second rib downward. The sternum is divided vertically in the midline from the level of the second rib downward using a Micro oscillating sternal saw"

[Duchess]

For that matter, what is with all their concern regarding his vacation time, when Hussein stays on semi-permanent vacation? Not that we wouldn't all be better off if he'd make it totally permanent, say, in Kenya.

[Texacon]

I'm confused about how Canada can have all these top cardiologists, surgeons, and other specialists. They all speak English. They can easily move across the border and make several times more money. They can be only a few miles from the rest of their Canadian families. And they can enjoy that enormously increased income in a more pleasant climate, if they so choose. So how Canada have all these top cardiologists, surgeons, and other specialists? Has an American doctor, or an American patient, ever crossed the border northbound?

4,5

Funny you should say that.  In 2001 I broke my neck.  The Neurosurgeon who put the plate in my neck, fused C 5, 6 & 7 and put my HALO on was a Dr. wearing cowboy boots I could hear coming down the hall for a mile.  He was a Canadian who had moved to Houston to ply his trade.  He is considered one of the best in the business in the Houston area.  Makes a bundle too!  My surgery took 2 hours and his fee alone was $20,000.00.  I asked how many of these surgeries he did and he told me he did 6 - 8 of them a day.  I hope the dude can retire in a few years!  LOL

KC

[formerlurker]

Mount Sinai Medical Center public relations manager, Joanna Palmer, said Dr. Lamelas has done 2,000 minimally invasive heart operations.

“He has the highest survival rate and fewest complications in the state of Florida [for heart operations] and his morbidity and mortality rates are far below the national average,” said Ms. Palmer in a telephone interview from Miami. “He has trained over 300 physicians from around the world on the Miami Method.”

According to Asim Cheema, an interventional cardiologist at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto, the surgery is technically difficult to do.

“Once you know more about the procedure, the less critical you can be about his decision to go,” said Dr. Cheema. “It seems, this is the procedure he wanted to have, so if this is the procedure he wanted to have, he would like to go to the person who has done the most.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/littlegeek-styrer-max/article1479162/

[Duke Nukum]

Let the fun begin!

Ahhhh it's a conspiracy .... by a leftist to help the right!  I knew they would figure it out.

Wait, wait, wait.  All you Canadians were telling us there WERE no wait times ... which is it?

He didn't 'bump' anyone.  He was put on a schedule.  Someone has to be in line .. not everyone can be first which is something all you DUmmies need to learn. 

I'm sure there is more to come but this is the first thread I found on it and it just started ....

KC

Sometimes there is no advantage in being first.  For example, the first patient after the doc was taken to the cleaners in an ugly divorce. 

[debk]

Exactly.  How can you say not wanting to have your bones broken is cosmetic..
limited sternotomy...
"The patient is anesthetized in the supine position. The lower borders of the second ribs approximately 5 cm on either side of the midline and the tip of the xiphisternum are marked as the primary reference points. A 10-cm-long vertical skin incision is made approximately 3 cm below the level of the second rib. The periosteum over the sternum is incised vertically from the level of the second rib downward. The sternum is divided vertically in the midline from the level of the second rib downward using a Micro oscillating sternal saw"

I don't know how it is for heart surgery patients....but I have broken my sternum and it didn't heal correctly. It hurt - a lot! - and hurt for years whenever I was over-tired or had done a bunch of lifting.

Given a choice of having my sternum sawed apart or having a successful surgery that avoids that part...there's no question which option I would choose!

Also....where would you rather spend 6 or so weeks recovering from surgery in the middle of winter....Florida or Nova Scotia?

Gee...such a difficult choice.....