Author Topic: Canada: "Political leaders should be jailed for questioning Global Warming"  (Read 17158 times)

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Offline Crazy Horse

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Nick,

If you gave the nocturnal foul one to the Beast, he would take a bite and spit it out then commence to kicking your big ass in a way that only some bulls know  :-)

he is worse than PY and the eater of pin fish combined. Though I know you will still have fun with him.
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Offline The Night Owl

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As far as the 70's hoax about the cooling trend and not being able to find much about it on the net it could be that the net wasn't around then and that no one wanted to type all that garbage. There was quite a bit more info back then, but I don't believe that you were around then.

If the theory of global cooling was widely accepted in the scientific community of the 1970s, then you should be able to point to at least a few scientific studies which supported it. You can't because those studies don't exist. Regardless, William M. Connolley, a mathematician from the UK has been compiling everything written about global cooling onto a website...

http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/iceage/

Looking at Connolley's compilation, one can easily see that any publicity which the theory of global cooling gained came not from scientific journals or from scientists but rather from dippy articles written by dippy journalists working for dippy magazines.

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I see that unfortunately you close to "cherry pick" much of what I wrote. It's ok if that's what you wish to do, but it does remove some of the context high points that I was making.

I'm responding to the parts of your posts which I understand. Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding your style of writing to be difficult to follow.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 01:14:36 PM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Rebel

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Don't you guys understand? A consensus of scientists, and not-so scientific personnel, doth a scientific theory make.  :whatever:
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline The Night Owl

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Don't you guys understand? A consensus of scientists, and not-so scientific personnel, doth a scientific theory make.  :whatever:

Huh? I've never claimed or implied that scientific theories are formed by concensus.
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Offline Rebel

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Don't you guys understand? A consensus of scientists, and not-so scientific personnel, doth a scientific theory make.  :whatever:

Huh? I've never claimed or implied that scientific theories are formed by concensus.

....but you use the same criteria in reverse to discredit global cooling.

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If the theory of global cooling was widely accepted in the scientific community of the 1970s, then you should be able to point to at least a few scientific studies which supported it. You can't because those studies don't exist. Regardless, William M. Connolley, a mathematician from the UK has been compiling everything written about global cooling onto a website...
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline The Night Owl

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....but you use the same criteria in reverse to discredit global cooling.


I'm not trying to discredit any theories. All I'm trying to do is point out that Nick is wrong to attribute claims of a coming ice age to scientists in the 1970s. They weren't the ones floating that idea. The idea was nothing more than stupid speculation in the media. So, when anyone claims that the scientists who are predicting global warming were predicting global cooling not long ago, they are wrong.

People need to separate what the scientific press as represented by scientific journals reports from what the press in general reports or discussion of science becomes pointless.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 02:48:03 PM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Atomic Lib Smasher

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....but you use the same criteria in reverse to discredit global cooling.


I'm not trying to discredit any theories. All I'm trying to do is point out that Nick is wrong to attribute claims of a coming ice age to scientists in the 1970s. They weren't the ones floating that idea. The idea was nothing more than stupid speculation in the media. So, when anyone claims that the scientists who are predicting global warming were predicting global cooling not long ago, they are wrong.

People need to separate what the scientific press as represented by scientific journals reports from what the press in general reports or discussion of science becomes pointless.



And Global warming ISN'T stupid speculation? Lemme ask ya something.... if SUVs, cow farts, my furnace, etc. is to blame for global warming, then why the **** is Mars and Jupiter undergoing the same thing???? Hmmm???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4266474.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-05-04-jupiter-jr-spot_x.htm?POE=TECISVA




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Offline The Night Owl

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And Global warming ISN'T stupid speculation? Lemme ask ya something.... if SUVs, cow farts, my furnace, etc. is to blame for global warming, then why the **** is Mars and Jupiter undergoing the same thing???? Hmmm???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4266474.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-05-04-jupiter-jr-spot_x.htm?POE=TECISVA


Here we go again with the Sun. If the rising temperatures on Mars, Jupiter, and Earth were due to an increase in solar irradiance, then all the planets would be warming, not just 3 of them.

Scientists studying climate change are well aware of the fact that planets go through natural warming and cooling cycles. Have you considered the possibility that global warming on Earth right now is the result of both a natural process and human activitity? 
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Offline Chris_

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And Global warming ISN'T stupid speculation? Lemme ask ya something.... if SUVs, cow farts, my furnace, etc. is to blame for global warming, then why the **** is Mars and Jupiter undergoing the same thing???? Hmmm???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4266474.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-05-04-jupiter-jr-spot_x.htm?POE=TECISVA


Here we go again with the Sun. If the rising temperatures on Mars, Jupiter, and Earth were due to an increase in solar irradiance, then all the planets would be warming, not just 3 of them.

Scientists studying climate change are well aware of the fact that planets go through natural warming and cooling cycles. Have you considered the possibility that global warming on Earth right now is the result of both a natural process and human activitity? 

Because there is no proof.  At this point, it isn't a theory. It is at best a hypothesis.  For one thing, it isn't falsifiable.  Human-caused AGW meets few of the criteria necessary to be considered a theory.  And, as I am sure you know (or should) there is a big difference between a scientific theory and a journalistic one.
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Offline Nick Schizen

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Mr. TVDOC,

Thank you for your advice .............. it appears to be very correct!



Now Mr. Owl...

I really don't believe that it's my "writting style" that you find difficult to follow, but that I ask you questions that give you the opportunity attempt to prove your point about global warming that you don't have a clue what I'm talking about. And believe me friend.............. they are all valid questions that would take a scientist to answer, or someone who really knew their stuff about the theories surrounding cause of global warming and not just some Bush hating neophyte who has subscribed to the Clintonian Proposition that pulling wool over the eyes of sheep is the first stepping stone to political supremacy.

But don't feel bad. You ain't the only one!

Have a pleasant evening and I wish you the best.


Offline DumbAss Tanker

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And Global warming ISN'T stupid speculation? Lemme ask ya something.... if SUVs, cow farts, my furnace, etc. is to blame for global warming, then why the **** is Mars and Jupiter undergoing the same thing???? Hmmm???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4266474.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-05-04-jupiter-jr-spot_x.htm?POE=TECISVA


Here we go again with the Sun. If the rising temperatures on Mars, Jupiter, and Earth were due to an increase in solar irradiance, then all the planets would be warming, not just 3 of them.

Scientists studying climate change are well aware of the fact that planets go through natural warming and cooling cycles. Have you considered the possibility that global warming on Earth right now is the result of both a natural process and human activitity? 

I'm trying to stay out of this, since it's kind of like talking to a recording, but I have to say that answer of yours was particularly nonresponsive and logically contradictory.

First, did Skizz say the rest of the planets were NOT also increasing in temperature, or just that two others were?  I believe it was the latter; if YOU are trying to say the rest are not, do you have any basis for that assertion?  None is apparent.

Second, the idea that two other planets could be going through natural heating cycles and that some portion of the Earth's rising temperature might be due to that natural rise would appear to render futile efforts to reduce it which rely entirely on a theoretical grounding in AGW.  I do not believe any of the Kyoto 'science' is based on a multi-component theory of warming, it is instead 100% reliant on AGW.  Thus if there is a natural component, the underlying assumptions and emission goals which are grounded on a 100% AGW model are not only wrong but possibly dangerously so, unless and until the 'natural' GW component's mechanism can be determined and understood.
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Offline Chris_

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And Global warming ISN'T stupid speculation? Lemme ask ya something.... if SUVs, cow farts, my furnace, etc. is to blame for global warming, then why the **** is Mars and Jupiter undergoing the same thing???? Hmmm???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4266474.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-05-04-jupiter-jr-spot_x.htm?POE=TECISVA


Here we go again with the Sun. If the rising temperatures on Mars, Jupiter, and Earth were due to an increase in solar irradiance, then all the planets would be warming, not just 3 of them.

Scientists studying climate change are well aware of the fact that planets go through natural warming and cooling cycles. Have you considered the possibility that global warming on Earth right now is the result of both a natural process and human activitity? 

I'm trying to stay out of this, since it's kind of like talking to a recording, but I have to say that answer of yours was particularly nonresponsive and logically contradictory.

First, did Skizz say the rest of the planets were NOT also increasing in temperature, or just that two others were?  I believe it was the latter; if YOU are trying to say the rest are not, do you have any basis for that assertion?  None is apparent.

Second, the idea that two other planets could be going through natural heating cycles and that some portion of the Earth's rising temperature might be due to that natural rise would appear to render futile efforts to reduce it which rely entirely on a theoretical grounding in AGW.  I do not believe any of the Kyoto 'science' is based on a multi-component theory of warming, it is instead 100% reliant on AGW.  Thus if there is a natural component, the underlying assumptions and emission goals which are grounded on a 100% AGW model are not only wrong but possibly dangerously so, unless and until the 'natural' GW component's mechanism can be determined and understood.

Standard liberal "science." Any 2 things equal to nothing else are equal to each other.

You are right, it is like debating a liberal is like debating when the response is "Para Espanaol, prensa numerio dos."

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Offline Atomic Lib Smasher

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And Global warming ISN'T stupid speculation? Lemme ask ya something.... if SUVs, cow farts, my furnace, etc. is to blame for global warming, then why the **** is Mars and Jupiter undergoing the same thing???? Hmmm???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4266474.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-05-04-jupiter-jr-spot_x.htm?POE=TECISVA


Here we go again with the Sun. If the rising temperatures on Mars, Jupiter, and Earth were due to an increase in solar irradiance, then all the planets would be warming, not just 3 of them.

Scientists studying climate change are well aware of the fact that planets go through natural warming and cooling cycles. Have you considered the possibility that global warming on Earth right now is the result of both a natural process and human activitity? 

Oh my God, you cannot be this ****in' stupid. THERE ARE NO HUMANS ON OTHER PLANETS!!!! Why would Jupiter, Mars, Venus Saturn, Triton, Enceladus, Neptune, and even the non planet Pluto be experiencing "global warming" if it didn't have a human factor? Because of the ****in' SUN! You libs just wanna pin climate change on human activity to scam others, and get your traitorous side elected. Period.

And no, not all scientists agree with the Goracle. Quite a bit are on the more rational side.


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Offline The Night Owl

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Oh my God, you cannot be this ******' stupid. THERE ARE NO HUMANS ON OTHER PLANETS!!!! Why would Jupiter, Mars, Venus Saturn, Triton, Enceladus, Neptune, and even the non planet Pluto be experiencing "global warming" if it didn't have a human factor?


Before I say anything, I just want to say that I'm glad to see you jumping into the debate on global warming. I get kind of bored arguing with the same people all the time, so your presence in this debate is welcome... at least by me. Now, back to the debate...

First, none of the material you posted contains any claims that Venus, Saturn, Neptune, or Enceladus are warming, so either bring me scientific articles about warming on those bodies or strike them from your list of planets and moons which are experiencing warming.

Second, the article you cite explains that increasing temperatures observed on Jupiter, Pluto, and Triton are due to causes other than solar activity.

A little bit about the warming being observed on Mars and Jupiter...

A recent study found that warming on Mars is due to dust storms...
 
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070404-mars-warming.html

One physicist theorizes that warming on Jupiter is due to the loss of atmospheric vorticies there...

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/04/21_jupiter.shtml

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Because of the ******' SUN!

Temperature increases on some of the planets and moons in our solar system do not necessarily indicate an increase in solar irradiance. In fact, according to satellite readings, solar irradiance has been fairly constant for the past few decades and has even decreased somewhat...

http://www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic=tsi/composite/SolarConstant

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And no, not all scientists agree with the Goracle. Quite a bit are on the more rational side.

The very article you cite very clearly states that most climate scientists and astrophysicists agree that the sun is not the cause of increasing temperatures on Earth...

While evidence suggests fluctuations in solar activity can affect climate on Earth, and that it has done so in the past, the majority of climate scientists and astrophysicists agree that the sun is not to blame for the current and historically sudden uptick in global temperatures on Earth, which seems to be mostly a mess created by our own species.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 10:56:55 AM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Atomic Lib Smasher

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Ya know what? **** you and your debate. You're an idiot. You really are buying into this myth that is global warming despite the fact 1. The Earth has only "warmed" 1 degree in the last 100 years, 2. Other planets are experiencing the same thing 3. Co2 in the atmosphere has only increased by a tenth of a percent in the last 200 years and 4. and yes, Virginia... the sun IS getting hotter.


You may buy into this like the mongoloid you are, but the American people won't. I know your type would like to see them jailed and in the camps for "re-education" and for everyone to empty their wallets into planting trees in Bavaria or some shit for a made up cause... but it ain't gonna happen.


Eat shit and live.

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Offline Attero Dominatus

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Ya know what? **** you and your debate. You're an idiot. You really are buying into this myth that is global warming despite the fact 1. The Earth has only "warmed" 1 degree in the last 100 years, 2. Other planets are experiencing the same thing 3. Co2 in the atmosphere has only increased by a tenth of a percent in the last 200 years and 4. and yes, Virginia... the sun IS getting hotter.


You may buy into this like the mongoloid you are, but the American people won't. I know your type would like to see them jailed and in the camps for "re-education" and for everyone to empty their wallets into planting trees in Bavaria or some shit for a made up cause... but it ain't gonna happen.


Eat shit and live.


Our resident troll has appearently never considered variations in orbital eccentricity as a cause of warming/cooling either. Called Milankovitch cycles.
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Offline Atomic Lib Smasher

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Ya know what? **** you and your debate. You're an idiot. You really are buying into this myth that is global warming despite the fact 1. The Earth has only "warmed" 1 degree in the last 100 years, 2. Other planets are experiencing the same thing 3. Co2 in the atmosphere has only increased by a tenth of a percent in the last 200 years and 4. and yes, Virginia... the sun IS getting hotter.


You may buy into this like the mongoloid you are, but the American people won't. I know your type would like to see them jailed and in the camps for "re-education" and for everyone to empty their wallets into planting trees in Bavaria or some shit for a made up cause... but it ain't gonna happen.


Eat shit and live.


Our resident troll has appearently never considered variations in orbital eccentricity as a cause of warming/cooling either. Called Milankovitch cycles.

Yeah, I know what those are... the planets are not really on a circular, even orbit. More like a distorted oval pattern. But that may have a very profound effect as well, and can cause cold eras and hot periods and can even vary the tilt of the Earth's axis. Then again, I don't pretend to know it all like the nocturnal strigidae (ala Franksolich  :-) )


Also, we had an "ice age" of sorts from around 1300-the end of the 1700's.... maybe this is the warming period in between "Little Ice Ages"... who knows?

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Offline The Night Owl

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Ya know what? **** you and your debate. You're an idiot. You really are buying into this myth that is global warming despite the fact 1. The Earth has only "warmed" 1 degree in the last 100 years, 2. Other planets are experiencing the same thing 3. Co2 in the atmosphere has only increased by a tenth of a percent in the last 200 years and 4. and yes, Virginia... the sun IS getting hotter.

Are you reading the articles you're posting? The Fox News article you posted a link to does not contain the claim that the Sun is getting hotter. In fact, the article claims exactly the opposite...

If sunspot activity continues to be so markedly low, then we should prepare for the possibility of a significant global cooling trend that could reduce agricultural yields and bring on the sort of food shortages that occurred during the Little Ice Age.

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Offline The Night Owl

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Our resident troll has appearently never considered variations in orbital eccentricity as a cause of warming/cooling either. Called Milankovitch cycles.

A new face in the debate! Welcome to the fray.

Climate scientists are well aware the fact that orbital variations have an effect on climate. I'm not aware of any scientific studies indicating that the warming we are seeing on Earth is the result of orbital variations, but feel free to point out any studies indicating that.
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Offline Lauri

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Humans found flint weapons and clubs along ptarmigan and rabbit carcasses. Also, they used energy based weapons and guns. Mostly, it was close range fightings with clubs and flint weapons. Humans saw it and recorded it. However, all the bunnies destroyed the record, so there is no record of it.
That's what we want you to think.

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Offline Lauri

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Don't you guys understand? A consensus of scientists, and not-so scientific personnel, doth a scientific theory make.  :whatever:

Huh? I've never claimed or implied that scientific theories are formed by concensus.


if you cant tell me the temps in my town in two months, you cant tell me the temps in my town in 50 years.  :whatever:

Offline The Night Owl

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if you cant tell me the temps in my town in two months, you cant tell me the temps in my town in 50 years.  :whatever:

I can't tell you what the temperature will be in your town in two months, but I can tell you that April there will probably be warmer than February there.

Scientists studying climate change don't claim to be able to tell people what the temperatures will be in various places in 50 years. What they are attempting to do is predict global climate trends... increases and decreases... not temperature absolutes.

If you're really interested in learning about what scientists are doing to study global warming, a good place to start is here...

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/

Some of the material on Real Climate is meant for scientists, but there are a lot of other articles on it which are meant for public consumption.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 01:48:07 PM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Atomic Lib Smasher

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if you cant tell me the temps in my town in two months, you cant tell me the temps in my town in 50 years.  :whatever:

I can't tell you what the temperature will be in your town in two months, but I can tell you that April there will probably be warmer than February there.

Scientists studying climate change don't claim to be able to tell people what the temperatures will be in various places in 50 years. What they are attempting to do is predict global climate trends... increases and decreases... not temperature absolutes.

If you're really interested in learning about what scientists are doing to study global warming, a good place to start is here...

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/

Some of the material on Real Climate is meant for scientists, but there are a lot of other articles on it which are meant for public consumption.

No shit it's going to be warmer in April than it is in February. What does GW have to do with it??

And isn't that realclimate.org an offshoot of the Weather channel, the same channel that fires meteorologists who don't fall in line with the GW Cult?


By the way, why are the global warming types so tolerant??  :sarcasm:


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Offline The Night Owl

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And isn't that realclimate.org an offshoot of the Weather channel, the same channel that fires meteorologists who don't fall in line with the GW Cult?


As far as I know, Real Climate is not associated with The Weather Channel.

About Real Climate...

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/about/

Bios of some of the scientists at Real Climate...

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?cat=10
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Offline Attero Dominatus

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Man made global warming is just a pseudoscience that governments use to get new taxes. Various "carbon" and "fuel efficiency" taxes.
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