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Offline wasp69

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A Brief Question
« on: March 14, 2012, 09:30:14 AM »
Since there is no official ATA Forum, I figured this was the best place to ask something that has been bothering me for a few days:  Why did it take so long to ban Cyrus after what was a clear violation of TOS regarding the US Armed Forces and veterans? 

The Fight Club thread where he posted the most vile propaganda and garbage was from the last part of February but it took until yesterday (?) to finally ban him.  I would understand if in the Fight Club thread he was maybe just ignorant and recanted what he had posted before but the guy doubled down on it and was allowed to remain.  I feel it's been pretty obvious he was trolling to begin with but that thread was well beyond the pale.

I chose not to do this in PM because I'm not the only one who was wondering why Cyrus was allowed to stay past his obvious expiration date.  I have never had any reason to question the moderation/administration of this site but this was just gross, guys.

Thank you in advance.
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline obumazombie

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 10:48:34 AM »
If you let libs on the forum, and expect them to speak freely, you are going to end up with some very outrageous speech. Logic will not be important to any lib's posts, neither will be ethics, morals, fact, truth, reason, ration, or any other civilizing characteristic. Having to tolerate libs is a disgusting business, but then you know what you're up against. I never play defense with libs, only offense, then when I see a line of attack that puts the libs on their heels, I press it. I just don't see how you can have libs on a forum like this and expect them to behave. They have no discipline in any other aspect of their lives, how can we expect them to have discipline when they visit here ? I for one, if I was a moderator would have voted against banning. Limit his posting privileges to fight club or whatever, but not outright ban. The only cure for reprehensible speech is more free speech in opposition to it.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 11:02:13 AM »
Yeah, I hear the arguments for libs and their free speech rights, but at some point in the game, their speech becomes unnecessarily disruptive.

In other words, a line needs to be crossed before the Ban Hammer comes down.

I personally believe Cyrus was simply waiting for an opportunity to show his true colors. Back when he first started posting, he was all sweetness and light, Persia isn't all like I'minajihad, and further, Iranians weren't all muslim and those that were didn't really practice the faith.

Yeah, right.  :whatever:

And then he started in with the never-ending series of links, youtubes, and other bullshit that "illustrated" his overall point -- that Iran isn't a threat, never has been and never will be.

Yeah, right.  :whatever:

But the management here gave him all the rope that was needed to hang him and he ultimately did hang himself.

I'm not a mod, but I'm somewhat familiar with the general approach here -- admins retain the Ban Hammer exclusively, though any Ban generally has to be done by consensus. Those decisions can sometimes take awhile.
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Offline Gina

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 11:10:44 AM »
I told yall so way back when he first started!  yall should listen to me!  I know shit when I smell it! :tongue:
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Offline Eupher

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2012, 11:16:27 AM »
Quote from: Gina on March 14, 2012, 11:10:44 AM
I told yall so way back when he first started!  yall should listen to me!  I know shit when I smell it! :tongue:

Gina, you're a redhead.

Listening to redheads is a REQUIREMENT.   :lmao:

I dunno about smelling shit through a computer monitor, but when the asshat admitted he was a fatass porker and had never served in uniform, yet was babbling on about it as if he was still active duty, I knew then he was a ****tard.

Besides, who posts never-ending streams of youtube links about sweetness and light? Asshat ****tards, of course.
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Offline Gina

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 11:17:56 AM »
Quote from: Eupher on March 14, 2012, 11:16:27 AM
Gina, you're a redhead.

Listening to redheads is a REQUIREMENT.   :lmao:

I dunno about smelling shit through a computer monitor, but when the asshat admitted he was a fatass porker and had never served in uniform, yet was babbling on about it as if he was still active duty, I knew then he was a ****tard.

Besides, who posts never-ending streams of youtube links about sweetness and light? Asshat ****tards, of course.

People that post long posts that take forever to read suck  :whistling:
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Offline wasp69

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 11:43:53 AM »
Quote from: obumazombie on March 14, 2012, 10:48:34 AM
If you let libs on the forum, and expect them to speak freely, you are going to end up with some very outrageous speech. Logic will not be important to any lib's posts, neither will be ethics, morals, fact, truth, reason, ration, or any other civilizing characteristic. Having to tolerate libs is a disgusting business, but then you know what you're up against. I never play defense with libs, only offense, then when I see a line of attack that puts the libs on their heels, I press it. I just don't see how you can have libs on a forum like this and expect them to behave. They have no discipline in any other aspect of their lives, how can we expect them to have discipline when they visit here ? I for one, if I was a moderator would have voted against banning. Limit his posting privileges to fight club or whatever, but not outright ban. The only cure for reprehensible speech is more free speech in opposition to it.

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Discussion of the Military, Active Members, Reserve, Veterans, Police Officers, other First Responders and any issue involving these individuals

Absolutely no troop-bashing allowed. We honor and respect all of our Military, Police, or other First Responders here on ConservativeCave. Any comment, photo, article or link that serves to disrespect our troops or their missions will be removed and you will face disciplinary action.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,8777.0.html

I'm not one who calls for banning, but this asshole deserved the ban hammer a lot faster than it got dropped.  That's where I'm having heartburn.
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline obumazombie

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 04:29:36 PM »
Quote from wasp69...


"I'm not one who calls for banning, but this asshole deserved the ban hammer a lot faster than it got dropped.  That's where I'm having heartburn."

I'm hearing you. I understand what you are saying, and sympathize with it. I don't disagree with you completely. I don't enjoy knowing that it is causing you heartburn.

Without libs this forum becomes an echo chamber. We should be about winning hearts and minds. I know dyed in the wool libs appear to be hopeless cases, but if we are on our game we will sway some lib at some point.

Maybe there should be a zone of the forum where libs can be placed after they flunk out of fight club, like a purgatory, and the only way to get out of purgatory is posting a sincere post apologizing for offensive posts in violation of forum rules. Any other non apology post attempt could be immediately deleted by any member in good standing, or something like that.

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Offline rich_t

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 04:38:06 PM »
I'm not going to second guess the mods or admins on this particular guy.

One of the reasons that I took a break from this board is that I thought that the ban hammer was being dropped too often/quickly.

I think we need to see the idiocy of the other side up close and personal to remind us of what we are fighting against.

The libtards that show up here are also rather fun to kick around on occasion.   :-)

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Offline Gina

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 07:57:46 AM »
Quote
Maybe there should be a zone of the forum where libs can be placed after they flunk out of fight club, like a purgatory, and the only way to get out of purgatory is posting a sincere post apologizing for offensive posts in violation of forum rules. Any other non apology post attempt could be immediately deleted by any member in good standing, or something like that.


I  like that
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Offline CG6468

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 08:35:42 AM »
Quote from: Gina on March 15, 2012, 07:57:46 AM
I  like that

I don't. If they read the rules and refuse to abide by them, they should be gone. If they don't bother to read the rules, then it's TFB.
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Offline Gina

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 08:41:22 AM »
Quote from: CG6468 on March 15, 2012, 08:35:42 AM
I don't. If they read the rules and refuse to abide by them, they should be gone. If they don't bother to read the rules, then it's TFB.

You don't like forcing a lib to apologize in order to come out of a cage?
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Offline wasp69

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 10:06:39 AM »
Quote from: obumazombie on March 14, 2012, 04:29:36 PM
"I'm not one who calls for banning, but this asshole deserved the ban hammer a lot faster than it got dropped.  That's where I'm having heartburn."

I'm hearing you. I understand what you are saying, and sympathize with it. I don't disagree with you completely. I don't enjoy knowing that it is causing you heartburn.

Without libs this forum becomes an echo chamber. We should be about winning hearts and minds. I know dyed in the wool libs appear to be hopeless cases, but if we are on our game we will sway some lib at some point.

Don't get me wrong, I think that libs should be allowed here and they should sign up in greater numbers than they already do.  We have had some who are honest and civil, most are not.  When a poster makes an effort to use enemy (leftist/communist/islamist) propaganda against our troopers, and does not back away from their stupidity, they should be gone immediately.  That is one line that should never be crossed.

Ever.

I thought that the loser kiwi that got drop-kicked out of here should have been allowed to stay even though he was an America hating sack of hair who spoke poorly of our troops.  He did not, however, stoop to the level of Cyrus.  While the kiwi was shown the door for disrupting, Cyrus was allowed to have his posts stand and continue on until this past Tuesday.  That pathetic troll was allowed to violate the shit out of the TOS and remain.  Very few things get to me as fast as a wet-mouthed, know nothing, done nothing, piece of shit who bad mouths the troops; in my presence, that is something that will get my right hand run through their head.  It's one thing to see that crap propagated on DU, another entirely for it to happen here.  I have a higher expectation of this board and I am looking for an answer as to why Cyrus' behavior was allowed to stand for as long as it did.

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Maybe there should be a zone of the forum where libs can be placed after they flunk out of fight club, like a purgatory, and the only way to get out of purgatory is posting a sincere post apologizing for offensive posts in violation of forum rules. Any other non apology post attempt could be immediately deleted by any member in good standing, or something like that.

At the site we left after the ronbot invasion of 2007, posters like Cyrus got "the question" - why are you so ******* stupid?  "The question" was the one opportunity for any fool to reverse their position and remain a member in good standing.  Most times, posters like Cyrus got the boot after "the question".  While "the question" does not really get used here too much, it's principles have not changed.  That is the primary reason I have never had any problems with the decisions of the admins/mods.  I am asking for an explanation to keep that faith.

And I have been asking since Monday morning.
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline obumazombie

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 10:58:19 AM »
I know you don't like the replies so far, mostly because the poster's aren't mods. But maybe the mods are letting the forum address your concerns before they step in ?
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Offline wasp69

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 12:00:41 PM »
Quote from: obumazombie on March 15, 2012, 10:58:19 AM
I know you don't like the replies so far, mostly because the poster's aren't mods. But maybe the mods are letting the forum address your concerns before they step in ?

Not that concerned with the replies, my position hasn't changed.  If the mods are letting the forum address my concerns, then that is an even bigger problem. 
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Gina

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2012, 12:51:40 PM »
 :bolt:
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Offline Chris

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2012, 12:58:43 PM »
I suppose I should attempt to explain why Cyrus was allowed to stay after his posts in that thread, but I can't.  I guess we dropped the ball on that one. 

Sorry.
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Offline Gina

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2012, 12:59:37 PM »
Quote from: Chris on March 15, 2012, 12:58:43 PM
I suppose I should attempt to explain why Cyrus was allowed to stay after his posts in that thread, but I can't.  I guess we dropped the ball on that one. 

Sorry.

one of yall was sweet on him weren't ya?   :pokingpoop:
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Offline Chris

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2012, 01:02:47 PM »
Quote from: Gina on March 15, 2012, 12:59:37 PM
one of yall was sweet on him weren't ya?   :pokingpoop:
No, but we wanted to give him the same opportunity every other poster here gets regardless of whatever mindless, stupid shit he decided to post.  I guess his comments got overlooked.  Not everyone reads the Fight Club.
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Offline CG6468

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2012, 01:54:34 PM »
Quote from: Chris on March 15, 2012, 01:02:47 PM
No, but we wanted to give him the same opportunity every other poster here gets regardless of whatever mindless, stupid shit he decided to post.  I guess his comments got overlooked.  Not everyone reads the Fight Club.

In any case, thank you, Chris.
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Offline wasp69

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2012, 01:57:20 PM »
Quote from: Chris on March 15, 2012, 12:58:43 PM
I suppose I should attempt to explain why Cyrus was allowed to stay after his posts in that thread, but I can't.  I guess we dropped the ball on that one.  

Sorry.

Did the fight club mods not notice?  In post 16, Odin's Hand gave him his first warning and in post 22 pretty much indicated that Cyrus was finished. 

What happened?  Banning is not done by one person, I'm pretty sure Odin's Hand would have told the other admins/mods what was going on.  I'm at a loss.

I do thank you for the apology, I would rather not see CC and the good name of our veterans desecrated like this ever again.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 02:06:29 PM by wasp69 »
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Carl

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2012, 06:49:04 PM »
The FC thread was my doing,I separated it out of a thread that was on going in breaking news I believe.
It became somewhat freewheeling and I suspect given that FC,while still bound by the terms of service,has much greater latitude given there.
Should that have been the case,here in hind sight probably not,however in fairness very few engaging him there were bringing it up.

Banning people here is not done easily even if the person is a douche,we always take pride in telling DUmmies that they can sign up and post and will not be banned instantly.
Very often when a person is banned we get some flack about doing it too quickly.
The final decision is made on the admin level and administered by them.

What appears to have happened here is that Cyrus bailed on the thread there,his last post in it and anywhere was on Feb 26th when he quit.
It carried on for a couple more days without him and then ran its course.
He did not reappear here until March 7th.

There was no intent to coddle or give him a free ride,he was allowed to stand for the Fight Club thread and ridding ourselves of him slipped through the cracks.
That is unfortunate but under the entire set of circumstances something that happened.

Perhaps the thread should have been locked in breaking news instead of split into Fight Club by me,I take full responsibility for that decision and action.
Being in Fight Club allowed it to continue and move in different directions so focus was lost on his original statements.
If the situation arose again tonight I might be more inclined to end it where it was presuming in a forum I moderate but also am not sure sending it to Fight Club for people to weigh in on there is a bad thing to so either.

It is a judgment call and many are made along the way,we are all humans so there will always be the chance of a mistake happening.

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Offline wasp69

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Re: A Brief Question
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2012, 08:14:42 AM »
Quote from: Carl on March 15, 2012, 06:49:04 PM
The FC thread was my doing,I separated it out of a thread that was on going in breaking news I believe.
It became somewhat freewheeling and I suspect given that FC,while still bound by the terms of service,has much greater latitude given there.
Should that have been the case,here in hind sight probably not,however in fairness very few engaging him there were bringing it up.

Banning people here is not done easily even if the person is a douche,we always take pride in telling DUmmies that they can sign up and post and will not be banned instantly.
Very often when a person is banned we get some flack about doing it too quickly.
The final decision is made on the admin level and administered by them.

What appears to have happened here is that Cyrus bailed on the thread there,his last post in it and anywhere was on Feb 26th when he quit.
It carried on for a couple more days without him and then ran its course.
He did not reappear here until March 7th.

There was no intent to coddle or give him a free ride,he was allowed to stand for the Fight Club thread and ridding ourselves of him slipped through the cracks.
That is unfortunate but under the entire set of circumstances something that happened.

Perhaps the thread should have been locked in breaking news instead of split into Fight Club by me,I take full responsibility for that decision and action.
Being in Fight Club allowed it to continue and move in different directions so focus was lost on his original statements.
If the situation arose again tonight I might be more inclined to end it where it was presuming in a forum I moderate but also am not sure sending it to Fight Club for people to weigh in on there is a bad thing to so either.

It is a judgment call and many are made along the way,we are all humans so there will always be the chance of a mistake happening.

Thank you for the full story, Carl.
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840
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